can anyone help with rockhopper 38 printing problems?

[Signs & Wonders]

Have you tried the Onyx site, they have lots of profiles for the Rocky 38 to download. The seller who supplied you the machine and media should also be able to supply the correct profile.

I had major problems with my Rockhopper 38. Nice machine when it works right!! The biggest problem I found is getting people to support it, it’s not a popular machine so there’s not many profiles available. I am currently looking at a new RIP for the machine and hope it’s going to sort many of my problems out.

The pooling ink is definitely the wrong profile, but check the heater settings. There doesn’t seem to be much science in this area – it seems to be trial and error. Too much heat and it causes different problems.

Hope this is of help to you – I know one or two other members have Rockhopper 38s, maybe we should try to pool our knowledge together.

Tony

[cw products]

Yeah, been on the onyx site. And all of the profiles on the site (about 20) came with the rip.
I’ve got both the heaters up to maximum. It seems that the rip doesn’t allow me much management of it, the profiles are there, and it won’t let me tweak them. no matter which profile i choose the results are the same – shockingly bad.
I’m sure someone somewhere has the answer?!?!?

[Signs & Wonders]

Yeah, this story sounds familiar.

I take it you are using Onyx RIP Centre, like me. It just processes the image file ‘as is’, and uses the profiles as supplied. To do any tweaking etc. you need pre-flight which is on Onyx Postershop – £1640 + VAT to upgrade!!

As I say I’m looking at alternatives, will let you know what I find.

Tony

[alan flynn]

ergosoft posterprint 11 works well with the rocky 38 and the summa cutters for print and cut

regards
alan flynn

[John Simpson]

try using a decent prog like flexi or signlab, you will find the suppliers of the material you print onto will have the profiles you need but only for the popular progs as the profiles are very expensive to produce.

another thing you mention is that you are printing onto clear vinyl. this is generally known as a difficult thing to do even for solvent inks never mind Eco sol.
Once you have the right profiles for the right materials so that the ink doesn’t pool then you will be able to lay more ink down onto clear & get it something like. most of us still find that backing the clear with white if you are mounting onto inside of windows is the best way to go.

L J

[David Rowland]

To be honest, Onyx is one of the most popular rip programs on the market.. .it should have come with our old Mutoh but didn’t.

Dont see any profiles for Rocky1 or Rocky38 but Shiraz has loads for the Rocky2

[cw products]

Thanks to all of the above for the pointers, i will let you know if they are any help. They all came a little too late.
Let me tell you a story………….
After posting the original plea for help, the following day i received a phone call, offering practical help. The gentleman told me of his website, and that they had free downloadable profiles on the site, one of which mite sort my problem. It didn’t. However the gentleman offered further assistance by offering to profile the media for me, and asked for a quantity to be sent to him for this to be done. I obliged. ” days later i received an email with a new profile. And in fairness marks out of 10, we were at 8.5. Whereas prior to his intervention we were at 5 out of 10.
I explained to the gentleman over the phone that the pooloing/puddling of the ink seemed to be cured, but the colour strength of the output was a little weak, and could he tweak the profile further accordingly? At this point i was advised that no further advancement in the printed output quality could be expected using the genuine mutoh inks supplid with the machine, and that i would have to buy a set of third party inks and use them. Naivety here perhaps, but i’m not really in the sign industry as such, so had no reason to question the advice being given. I had a set of inks delivered. The gentleman had told me to flush the old mutoh inks out a couple of times, which i did. Upon installing the new inks, well what happened? They clogged the ink system and completely ruined the heads on my 3 month old machine. So what now? well i learn that this has voided my warranty. No problem says the gentleman, and explains how to dismantle my machine to the extent that the print heads can be removed along with the dampers and bathed overnite in flush liquid. Also explained how to syringe through clogged ink in the pipe work etc etc.
Anyway the heads were too blocked to save, so i purchased a set of epsom replacement heads and set about reassebling the machine.
Upon reassembling the machine i find that it doesn’t work. I have since been told by 3 independant engineers, and also people at the machines importers, that what i have been told to do has seriously jeopardised my machine, and has deffinately led to circuit/electrical damage. All in the repair bill may be up to 50% of the original purchase price of the machine.
The gentleman has since kind of washed his hands of me and my machine, telling me that it is my fault for not flushing ink out correctly. I followed every bit of his advice and instructions to the letter. I asked that the very least that he could do was refund me all of the money that i had sppent on the products purchased from him that had severely damaged my machine. The response to that was, ‘i cant do that, but we want your long term consumables business, i will make sure you always get good discount’. Beggars belief!!!!!!!
To eveyone, be very careful before screwing around with inks, your machine.
So today i had a 7 hour round trip to take the machine back to the importers for there inspection. It turns out that they could’ve sorted me the profile in the first place without having to mess on with inks or anything.
So tomorrow morning, its off to trading standards, and citizens advice for me.
Beware of advertisers!!!!!

[David Rowland]

CW, i am so sorry to hear about your problems. Third party ink always has a stronger colour range but normally at a price of a difference in the ink. Normally brilliance can be achieved by experimenting with different material/vinyls.
However this doesn’t help you… but I hope you can find an answer to this.

[Kevin Flowers]

CW
what did you do which caused the electrical fault, circiut damage etc. I have one of these machines & have at to take it apart myself when i was let down by engineer. Are you using Art Systems for the repair very good service from them, hope you get out of it without too much cost. Let us know how you get on

Kev

[John Simpson]

I really feel for you mate, i really do. As if there isn’t enough stress in this job as it is.
I would like the opinion of others on here but i would love that supplier to be outed, so we all know who to avoid!!!!!!!!!!!1

L J

[cw products]

Not sure where i would stand legally if i were to give all the names etc. also not sure how long the post would last before it is mysteriously removed from the board!!!
Art systems are sorting the problem out, hopefully as i typ.
Apparently, the machine holds a static/trickle charge even when it is turned off. apparently the thing should be unplugged completely and left for a short while before tackling anything like removing print heads etc.
All part of lifes big lesson i reckon.

[cw products]

Further to all of the above.
The company that supplied me the inks are refusing to even refund me the money i spent with them on the ink that screwed my machine.
I got the bill from art systems today, just over £1000.

[Kevin Flowers]

CW
glad you’ve got it fixed i know you have probably said but what software are you using. i have collected quite a few profiles for flexisign if that helps you.

Kev

[Barry Williams]

quote Kevin Flowers:

CW
glad you’ve got it fixed i know you have probably said but what software are you using. i have collected quite a few profiles for flexisign if that helps you.

Kev

READING THE ABOVE ,I HAVE BECOME SCEPTICAL ABOUT THE VARIOUS OFFERS I HAVE RECEIVED TO CHANGE TO BULK INK SYSTEMS. MY OUTPUT REQUIREMENTS ARE QUITE SMALL AS MOST OF MY WORK IS CUTTING VINYL. DUE TO THE LITTLE AMMOUNT OF USE THAT I MAKE OF MY RICKY 38 I SEEM TO ACQUIRE MANY PROBLEMS. THE CURRENT ONE IS FAILURE TO DELIVER THE K INK. I’VE FLUSHED THE SYSTEM AND AT LEAST NOW I GET A V DARK BOTTLE GREEN INSTEAD OF BLACK. I USE FLEXI 7.5V5 AND THE TABS ARE SET TO CYMK PRINTING.
ANY SUGGESTIONS TO AGAIN GET A TRUE BLACK?
BARRY

[Kevin Flowers]

Barry
what inks are you using, is it mutoh eco+ or Ultra inks or are you using third party inks. Do you have correct profiles for media you are using etc. If you are getting a dark green for black it sounds like the ink in the heads have become contaminated, when you do a nozzle check what are all the colours like.

Kev

[Barry Williams]

quote Kevin Flowers:

Barry
what inks are you using, is it mutoh eco+ or Ultra inks or are you using third party inks. Do you have correct profiles for media you are using etc. If you are getting a dark green for black it sounds like the ink in the heads have become contaminated, when you do a nozzle check what are all the colours like.

Kev

HI AGAIN KEV.
INKS ARE MUTOH ECO +
I HAVE DONE A NOZZLE TEST/PRINT AND FIND THAT THERE IS NO BLACK OUTPUT AT ALL. I WILL TRY TO SYPHON THE RESIDUE THAT IS IN THE SMALL DIAM. PIPE OUTPUTS
ABOVE THE WASTE BOTTLE, WITH A SYRINGE.
HOPEFULLY IT WILL CLEAR THE PROBLEM.
I DON’T KNOW ENEOUGH ABOUT THE MACHINE TO ATTEMPT MUCH MORE OF A "MECHANICAL" CURE.
THANKS AGAIN
BARRY (hot)

[Kevin Flowers]

Barry
when you need inks, bite the bullet & change to the new mutoh Ultra inks, you will think you have a new machine. You have to have a quick modification done so you need and engineer to do it but you honestly will think you have a new machine. You won’t beable to get the Eco-Plus inks soonso you will have to change.

Kev

[Maurice McNicholl]

I am also running a Rocky 38 and have had a number of serious problems over the last 12 months – all sorted by Art Systems.

Now about to move to the ultra inks – will this mean using new profiles or do the old ones simply transfer to the new inks? Are there any modifications needed apart from the mod done by the Art Systems engineer?

Great to hear of others using the Rocky 38 and to know that you are there if there are further problems. It would be interesting to hear which combinations of profiles and materials you have had success with.

Maurice

[Barry Williams]

.
I HAVE ONLY HAD THE MACHINE 14 MONTHS, AND HAVE DONE APPROX 100MTRS of work.
i feel that it is unlikely that the black printhead has failed. My supplier suggests that a "damper" on the top of the head may be perforated and is sending on spares which i will attempt to fit.
if that fails iI will have a 3 week delay in getting a technician. At that point iI will arrange to change the inks from eco to ultra.
Any suggestions on the cause of black ink delivery, would be most welcome.
barry

[Kevin Flowers]

Maurice / Barry
not got time at the moment will try to post later tonite

Kev

[Maurice McNicholl]

Barry
In 12 months I have had both print heads changed twice because of faults. Do not assume that the head cannot be damaged in 14 months. The damage on mine showed in fine lines printing through every print I tried to do. So it was not a blocked head. Yours sound different but head damage??

Maurice

[John Simpson]

Maurice,
Was the fine lines through all colours or just one colour?

L J

[Maurice McNicholl]

Hi John
Fine lines were often black but running right accross the printed area no matter what colour it was from one edge to the other. Sometimes the lines were in other colours as well but not as frequent as black. They started unpredictably in the centre of a print job then eventually the lines appeared as the first thing on the print and continued throughout.

I could be remedied by unselecting "use microdot" for various materials but then the quality was very poor. As i sais above both heads had to be replaced twice – only printed 20 or so meteres in between changes!

Not a good start for a sign business.

Maurice

[Kevin Flowers]

Barry,
go into the menu and do a powerful clean, if i remember correctly you can select to do the black on its own. If that doesn’t work put the syringe on the black line as you did & try to draw the ink through, if you can pull the syringe without pressure trying to pull it back then it is not sealing on the capping station. Lift the front lid & slightly push the print head assembly if you now get resistance, just keep slight pressure on the syringe. If you still can’t get a pressure on the syringe then you possibly have a split or disconnected pipe. My personal opinion wouldn’t be a head not based on age but the fact that they normally deteriate than just go.

Maurice
what software, media you using. Original profiles will work if you are lucky you can increase the linerisation ink limits equally as the ink dries very quick so you get no pooling.

John
i still have them part used cartridges i spoke to you about previously if you want to PM me your address,

I also have 4 flush cartridges for machines running EcoSolve + inks if someone wants to make a token offer & cover the postage

Kev

[John Simpson]

Maurice
I find that the only fine lines i get with my Rocky 62" is with the magenta so i have to do a power wash 2 or 3 times before a session which seems to cure it till next time i print which could be 2 0r 3 days later.

L J

[Maurice McNicholl]

John

The lines produced on my Rocky 38 would not disappear no matter what washing and flusing I did – only head replacement solved the problem, then it reoccured within a few weeks – still no explanation for what caused the problem. Just hoping it does not reoccur with recently replaced heads.
Still learning to use all the equipment and especillay hoping it will work for roll-up banners. Hope the new ultra inks willhelp that as well.

Maurice

[Kevin Flowers]

Maurice,
once you have the ultra inks installed you will think it is a new machine, as to the roll up material i’ve done sample print on to Oracle stuff with no problems.

Kev

[Maurice McNicholl]

Thanks Kev

Now looking forward to the ultra inks. I have my first set ready to go and they tell me i should go ahead and use them and get the conversion done after I start them. hope it works out that way.

Will let you know my reaction when I get them going

Maurice

[Kevin Flowers]

Maurice
who has advised this, the conversion consists of upgrading the spit tank pipe and the drain pipes. If either of these fail & ink leaks through to the PC board which is directly underneath then goodbye machine. I swopped from a fairly fall set of Eco Plus inks to the Ultra inks & it was worth evey penny.

Kev

[Barry Williams]

Kev[/quote]
HI KEV/MAURICE
I FINALLY GOT THE BLACK PRINTING AGAIN AT ABOUT 9-30 THIS EVENING.
I DISMANTLED AS MUCH OF THE MACHINE CABINET AS I COULD AND THEN SET IT TO DO A TEST PRINT A OBSERVE WHAT WAS HAPPENING. THE BLACK INK LINES WERE COMPLETELY DRY SO I FIGURED THAT PERHAPS THE NIPPLE THAT INSERTS INTO A LOADED CART, MIGHT BE BLOCKED. I PUMPED SOME FLUSHING FLUID INTO IT WITH A SYRINGE, PARTLY RE-ASSEMBLED THE MACHINE, DID A FULL FLUSH JOB, AND SUCCESS.
HOPING THAT IT IS NOT A FLASH IN THE PAN.ENEOUGH STRESS FOR ONE WEEK—I’M OFF TO THE PUB.
ABOUT 300 EURO SAVED ON A CALL-OUT THAT INVOLVED A WAIT OF 3 WEEKS DUE TO THEIR HOLIDAYS. I’LL ALSO TAKE YOUR ADVICE AND CHANGE TO THE ULTRA INKS, AND INSTALL THE MODIFY KIT. MY SUPPLIER TELLS ME THAT I CAN THEN WEAN THE MACHINE OFF THE SPARE CARTS OF ECO THAT I HAVE. NOT SUE ABOUT THE RESULTS THOUGH. THANKS FOR THE SUPPORT AND HELP ADVICE.
BARRY 🙂

[Maurice McNicholl]

Good news – well done Barry i am sure that i would not have your courage or expertise to do what you did to get the ink back. i am dependent on an engineer – flying from England to Noprthern Ireland.

Kev – I am advised by Art Systems that i can change to ultra inks for a short while mixed with other inks – ie use cartridges as i need them – as long as i do not go too long before the conversion is done.

maurice

[Kevin Flowers]

Maurice,
what they didn’t tell you id that they can’t guarantee the colour results, if you have Ultr inks that dry quick & Eco-Solve + that doesn’t how can you predict the colour mix. No one can tell you what the long term effects of doing this is at the end of the day its you who your customer will blame for a failure of the print. Artsystems are very good & maybe they are right but are they going to repair the machine free of charge if they aren’t.

Barry,
good to hear you got it going, do yourself a favour & print some solid colour prints to draw some fresh ink through the system. If you had dried ink at that end you may find you have a cartridge not sealing properly.

Kev

[Barry Williams]

quote Kevin Flowers:

Maurice,
what they didn’t tell you id that they can’t guarantee the colour results, if you have Ultr inks that dry quick & Eco-Solve + that doesn’t how can you predict the colour mix. No one can tell you what the long term effects of doing this is at the end of the day its you who your customer will blame for a failure of the print. Artsystems are very good & maybe they are right but are they going to repair the machine free of charge if they aren’t.

Barry,
good to hear you got it going, do yourself a favour & print some solid colour prints to draw some fresh ink through the system. If you had dried ink at that end you may find you have a cartridge not sealing properly.
HI KEV
READ YOUR LAST REPLY SHORTLY AFTER YOU SENT IT.
I HAVE PRINTED OFF SOME LARGE VW LOGOS, WHICH WON’T REALLY BE A WASTE AS I DO A LOT OF THE WORK FOR THE LOCAL DEALER. RESULTS ARE SATISFACTORY. I RAN OFF SOME MORE SOLID BLOCKS THIS MORNING BUT STILL SOMEWHAT UNSURE ABOUT “TRUE” BLACK RESULT. I WILL NEED TO CHECK OUT THE SETTING ON THE PRINTER MENU TO SEE IF I HAVE PERHAPS CHANGED IT TO CMY. PRINTING. THE CONTROL PANEL IS A NIGHTMARE TO ME— IT IS IN NO WAY INTUITIVE FOR ITS USE SO I’LL PHONE MY SUPPLIER ON MON. TO TALK ME THRU THE VERIFY PROCESS.
I’LL WAIT TILL HE IS IN THE AREA TO CONVERT TO ULTRA INKS AND MINIMISE THE CALL-OUT COST TO THE WEST OF IRELAND.
MAURICE—I THINK THAT D EVANS IN BELFAST SHOULD BE ABLE TO SERVICE YOUR RIG, RATHER THAN IMPORTING A TECHIE FROM UK. THEY SELL THE CADET MACHINES.
REGARDS
BARRY.

Kev

[Kevin Flowers]

Barry
if you are running Flexi sign then flexi sign controls the machine as far as i know as in "if you set your machine to 320 dpi & Flexi profile is set to 720 dpi it will adjust the printer automatically". Draw a square in Flexi colour it black & change to CMYK reduce the CMY to 0% & K to 100% then print & see what result you get. Eco Solve inks always did have a dirty grey black very wishy washy 100% improvement owith the new Ultra inks.

Kev

[David Rowland]

what is the flush solution used on the Mutoh?

[Kevin Flowers]

Dave
don’t know its what comes direct from Mutoh

Kev

[Karl Williams]

HI MAURICE,
UNDER THE PRINT HEAD CASING TO THE RIGHT YOU MAY NOTICE A BUILD UP OF FIBRES FROM THE SPONGE IN FRONT OF THE CAPPING STATION. THE PLASTIC HOUSING FOR THIS SPONGE TILTS EVERY SO OFTEN CAUSING THE HEAD CARRIER TO CATCH. THIS TAKES FIBRES AWAY ACROSS THE PRINT AND LOOKS LIKE A HEAD PROBLEM. CLEAN THE SPONGE, REMOVE THE FIBRES AND ALSO THE RUBBER BLADE. DON’T TOUCH THE BLADE WITH YOUR FINGERS, USE A COTTON WOOL BUD. THEY SAY DONT USE METHS, BUT MY MACHINE WORKS FINE NOW.
YOU MUST DO THIS EVERY WEEK, AND IT ONLY TAKES 5 MINUTES!

[Maurice McNicholl]

Thanks Karl

have had numerous expensive problems with this printer – 3 sets of printing heads and recently a main board replacement. Now noticing the "fibre" effect you mention so i will try what you suggest.

Thanks

Maurice

[Karl Williams]

I’M ON MY SECOND ROCKY. THE FIRST WAS NOT GOOD AT ALL. YOU COULD NEVER GET THIS TO PRINT CORRECTLY. THE SECOND MACHINE IS A REAL STAR!!!! LOST A LOT OF BUSINESS FROM THIS AND THE SUPPLIER WAS NOT IN THE LEAST BIT INTERESTED.

[Karl Williams]

I HAVE A PROFILE THAT WORKS WITH NEARLY EVERY MATERIAL I THROW AT IT.

[Karl Williams]

TRY THE PIPES ALONG THE TOP OF THE MACHINE. POSSILBLE THIS HAS A KINK IN IT. THESE ARE UNDER THE LARGE GREY PANEL ON TOP!
AND I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE WITH PROBLEMS.
AS USUAL THE SUPPLIER SAYS " WE NEVER HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THIS MACHINE OURSELVES, MUST BE YOUR COMPUTER"! STRANGE HOW THEY AREN’T ADVERTISING THIS IN THEIR BROCHURE ANY MORE!

[Kevin Flowers]

Hi
guys had this machine 2+ years now, only real problem in that time is 2 capping units. Drag lines across the print is normally fibre from the spit pad, i normally turn it over. You can also get marks when the encoder strip gets dirty, this is the strip under the grey top cover this tells the head to fire randomly leaving marks across the print.

Kev

[Maurice McNicholl]

Well this is getting really interesting. So many problems with this and no response from the supplier – though Art Systems have been great with servicing – England to Ireland is a bit of a problem however. Now I can benefit from your experiences. Will be investigating the fibre problem as I see it beginning to happen just now. Will also be in touch about profiles..

Thanks for the advice – too expensive to give up on this though I have been tempted.

Maurice

[Tony Stanwell]

Hello to all…TGIF

Have been reading with great interest all your messages concerning Mutoh printers.

We have had a Rockhopper II for 9 months and it is has only functioned correctly for 2 months…!!! 👿

9 months ago all print heads were changed and inks upgraded to Eco-Solvent Ultra.

At that time the wiper arm assembly delivered by Mutoh was defective and has never been replaced since.

I am, at present, communicating with THE SERVICE MANAGER of Mutoh Europe in Belgium…but the usual story its never their fault…

I will post a full story on this after the problems have finally been resolved or that we have changed printers. There are several important points that prospective purchasers of Mutoh printers should be aware of BEFORE purchasing their machines.

I only wish that we had a company like Art Systems in France/Switzerland, but all is not their fault…Mutoh is very much to blame also and if Mutoh distributors receive the sort of answers that we have received from Mutoh then I can understand their frustration…more to follow

A great weekend to all printers and signwriters

Tony

[Barry Williams]

quote Karl Williams:

I HAVE A PROFILE THAT WORKS WITH NEARLY EVERY MATERIAL I THROW AT IT. GIVE US A BUZZ ON 0115 9305588 AND I’LL EMAIL THIS TO YOU!

KARL WILLIAMS
SIGNPOINT UK LTD

KARL
IF YOU HAVE TIME , I WOULD LOVE TO TRY THE PROFILE YOU USE , ON THE ROCKHOPPER THAT I USE.
HOPEFULLY IT WILL IMPROVE REDS
REGARDS
BARRY

[Peter Normington]

oops.. 2 rules broken in one post

[Barry Williams]

Apologies, from an "innocent abroad".
BW
But I really do need some help with this
troublesome machine!

[Peter Normington]

If you hang on Karl will help out I’m sure.

Its quite an old thread though, Phone numbers and emails are not allowed to be posted, so maybe better to edit them before the mods do’

Peter

[Karl Williams]

quote BARRY WILLIAMS:

Apologies, from an “innocent abroad”.
BW
But I really do need some help with this
troublesome machine!

You have to nurture it mate. Think of it as the mother-in-law. Bury the thing!

[Barry Williams]

quote Karl Williams:

quote BARRY WILLIAMS:

Apologies, from an “innocent abroad”.
BW
But I really do need some help with this
troublesome machine!

You have to nurture it mate. Think of it as the mother-in-law. Bury the thing!

Thanks Karl-
I am not in need of help and advice regarding my personal life,-just with the printer
regards
Barry

[Karl Williams]

It’s the printer I’m talking about Barry. From my point of view a bad investment. worst one I’ve made.

[Barry Williams]

quote Karl Williams:

It’s the printer I’m talking about Barry. From my point of view a bad investment. worst one I’ve made.

Apologies, Karl—have had a baaad week and am somewhat short-fused.
Barry

[Karl Williams]

And is this all down to the Rocky mate?

[Barry Williams]

quote Karl Williams:

And is this all down to the Rocky mate?

Sure thing:

[Karl Williams]

I don’t know about the other Mutoh’s Barry. I just would never put my faith in the Rocky 38 to run a business again. To many problems.