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can anyone help with ongoing ink problem on JV3?
Epson 9 out of 10
mimaki 6 out 10
SHIRAZ Rip Software 10 out of 10
I posted a topic last week on my mimaki jv3 sp giving out very poor ink consumption. the Ink goes down to 50% very well then down to 40% in a couple of metres then all the way down to ink end in another couple of metres.
Hybrid Engineer came today and said it was my fault for moving the machine around which can clear down the chip if the cartridges slush Ink around!. we weighed all the inks and found the one in question yellow still had about 10% ink left. 80ml. left but you can only reset for 30ml as far as I know?, on average all the inks are reading around about 16% wrong!
they also changed the firmware as the one I was running 5.3 is very old and did have known ink monitoring problems, they have now upgraded it up to 7.3. on the whole I think the machine is great for safety signage and point of sale which is profitable I will keep the machine for a few more years under a repair contract , but I will not be taking up there distributors offer of a jv33 upgrade as I wouldnt buy another mimaki, I dont think they are geared up enough to medium users like myself, as it wastes so much ink if idle, even for a short while, who buys a ferrari and uses it evey day?
I will be upgrading my other machine epson 7800 to an epson 9880 (47 inch printer). a 3rd of the cost of a jv33, the epson is a much better machine even for signage and especially photography, i have had K3 Ink out in the great british weather (laminated) for over 2 years with no fade what so ever and better still if you dont use the machine you dont waste the ink!
after having many goes at shiraz over the last 6 months over this problem I now know for a fact that there print monitor is 100% accurate to the machine.
Epson 9 out of 10 mimaki 6 out 10
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40 Replies
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I’m still not understanding what you are saying, is the ink ending up in the waste bottle? and if so how much, as a percentage of the carts, and over how long.
I run an sp130 11 and yesterday I printed >20 metres of 1340 media on a yellow cart that was reading 1 on ink left, as yet it has not said near end, the graphic I did was the giraffe one for the gosh charity, so it did use yellow.
Based on that I could print 400 metres @ 1340mm on a set of carts costing £420 which works out at 95p per 1.3 sq m
this also mirrors my production costs over the last 12mths. Hardly expensive, so I would give mimaki 9.7 out of ten.Peter
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hi pete
are you constantly running your machine, is it more cost effective that way? as i am getting no where near your calcs to give you some idea of what i have used. not sure how many rolls I have put through it, but i have had 6 full sets of ink in 8 months, but I dont use the machine as a high production machine, probably gets turned on 2 – 3 times per week on average for an hour or so, I am not getting anywhere near your ink coverage and yes the ink bottle does fill quickly.
on the maintenace list its says i have printed 364 square metres, but not sure how many rolls that is.
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where do you get inks at £420 a full set I am paying £600 plus the vodka and tonic.
you dont have to tell me of course, as I realise you may have a cracking deal that you need protect!
simon
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shaking the cartridges won’t tell the chip you are low on ink. It does advise you to gently shake new cartridges before installing. What res are you using?
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720 x 720 dpi. quality set to standard not fine.
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Simon, all solvent machines use the ink if not printing, as you know, but it shouldnt be at the rate you indicate.
I dont do high production but certainly use it far more than you do.
to be honest, if you are only using it for 3-4 hours weekly, it has already cost you far more than you have earned in inks and depreciation, and I wonder why you bought it in the first place.
A pigment machine, doing the same hours may not use as much in ink, but would still be hard to justify its capital cost, as opposed to buying in the print you need.
I dont know why you are using the quantities you are. I think 6 sets up to now, in 8 months has to be a fault in set up or the machine, I have only emptied my waste bottle twice in 12 months, so maybe you should recall hybrid and get them to sort it, sorry cant be more help.if you intend to keep it and accept that it is using so much ink, then it certainly wont make you much profit.
Peter
Peter
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You will use tons more ink 0n 720 x 720. Use a lower dpi setting and you will see a big difference.
I’ve had my machine since May 07 and probably get through one set a month. -
what do you recommend.
i have used 360 x 720 dpi out of shiraz, but it deadbands dreadful!
prints very fast though !
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I use the same setting most of the time. Sounds like you are using the wrong profile to me. Yes the faster any machine goes the worse the banding gets but I find on 360 x 720 I hardly notice any banding.
The machine is dearer on inks but not that much that it breaks the bank. Best investment I’ve made. -
quote SIMON JAMES:where do you get inks at £420 a full set I am paying £600 plus the vodka and tonic.
you dont have to tell me of course, as I realise you may have a cracking deal that you need protect!
simon
Sorry I lied, multiplied by 6 instead of 8 more like £560
so ink cost = £1.40 per 1.3 square m or about a quid psmnot a great difference overall though, sorry.
Peter
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hi peter
what dpi do you run at ( i run 720 x 720) and what rip are you using?
I wouldnt say that I am loosing money and I have paid the machine off in 8 months, although I am having a good winge, i would love to upgrade to a JV33 but I know am having a rough deal with the inks and I dont think the perfomance on my particular machine warrants a progressive upgrade.
without running the risk of going paranoid and being carted away by men in white coats, I now plan to keep a day t day diary along with running a maintenance list 3 times a week
all your feedback is most appreciated!
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thats better!
i thought you were getting your ink from cartridge world.
simon
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hi Karl
I dont spend my whole life moaning, I also post positive feedbacks,
thanks for all your feedback
how often do you use your machine?
whats your rip?
and that sounds like a good welsh name Karl Williams!
i think I will try and fine tune the Print adjustment on 360 x 720, after all i dont think any of my customers will be half as fussy as me. i am a four colour litho printer by trade, so i was taught to be very fussy.
will i see a signifigant difference in running costs on 360 x 720?
and what about the wastage it is set to self clean every 8 hours how much ink do you actually waste?
simon
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Set your cleaning cycle to 24 hours, and yes you will see a difference.
Karl is german for Charles and yeh Williams is welsh. By the way I don’t do anything funny with sheep! 😉 -
I’m with Karl, mostly for general run of the mill stuff I use max 720×360.
I use signlab for the rip, and it dosnt give ink level readings, as said before I use the control panel for that.
if you have paid the machine off in 8 months then i really cant see why you are complaining, but cant reconcile the ink wastage with the output you say.Peter
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Hi Peter
I do buy in prints (larger print than 760mm) and at one stage thats all i did was print farming. I give another local company on average around about £750 a month in printing and mounting.
but does it really pay to let someone else in the area to know your customer base.Buying in Print can have its downfalls especially if you drop an expensive clanger.
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That’s what I thought Peter. wish I could pay mine off as quick!
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Nice One
it never takes long to get around to the sheep jokes, i havent seen a sheep in Cardiff for years they all went into hiding.
Still at least we are going to beat you in rugby in Twickenham in Feb.
On a more serious note I was also thinking about setting the clean cycle to 24 hours, but remembering to set it to 8 hours when I go on holidays or when i know I am not using it. what do you think?
Thats another thing? when they installed it. the guy said you must have somone clean it you go away for couple of weeks I havent told the wife yet that all the holidays are off. surely the self clean must be good enough or should I ask my gran to pop in whilst we are away, with some cotton ear buds and a bottle of domestos?
Simon
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Sorry Pete
I slightly lied about paying it off[/b], I have but not solely through printing!
I have a few big players on my books, who we also clean for, do plumbing for, Alarm and Door Access Systems for and the main stay of my business is design[/b] environmental, 5s and Hse projects and procedures.
I was made redundant 4 years ago out of the blue a week before my baby girl was born, so I now have the Philosophy "that I will do anyting even cleaning the s**t out of koo koo clocks as long as I get paid for it.
business is good, but i would say the signs is about 30% of what i do!
Simon
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quote SIMON JAMES:Sorry Pete
I slightly lied about paying it off[/b], I have but not solely through printing!
I have a few big players on my books, who we also clean for, do plumbing for, Alarm and Door Access Systems for and the main stay of my business is design[/b] environmental, 5s and Hse projects and procedures.
I was made redundant 4 years ago out of the blue a week before my baby girl was born, so I now have the Philosophy “that I will do anyting even cleaning the s**t out of koo koo clocks as long as I get paid for it.
business is good, but i would say the signs is about 30% of what i do!
Simon
No wonder your printer is left idle for so long, you are to busy doing other things 😀
Peter
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Hi Pete
It is my goal one day just to do Printing, Design and Photography, I have built 6 different websites which I intend to fully market one day.
but when it comes to signs and large format printing, I find that there is lot of running around to do and design to do sometimes before you even see the job, some which of is genuine some which is just a waste of time!, i have just printed a job that I quoted for over 2 years ago.
I guess I am still a novice at the sales side, but even in 4 years I have seen a lot of people come and go, thats why i do alsorts.
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Shiraz RIP which is a damn good RIP, the guys at AIT do tune media to a good profile set, so they consider what ink limits etc. We found that we get a good run from cartridges (except Magenta which goes quickly) and we mainly use Avery 2000 720 profile.
The readngs in the printer vs Shiraz ink levels do seem different, however i seen both showing either 1 on the printer or 2 on shiraz and it stays like it for ages, we are on an early firmware version and dont wish to change it for reasons of maybe using bulk ink one day. I am pretty sure that the ink readings are down to dropplet counting.
Also shaking the carts is not a good idea, it bubbles up the carts and although no air can get isnide to make bubbles, on a bulk ink you put filters inline to filter out bubbles etc.
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A bit of a hijack !
when my printer was installed (roland sp300v running ecosol max)
I was told there is very little difference in the amount of ink used when printing @720 x 720 or 720 x 360is this not true or only regarding the jv3
thanks rich -
as a clue rich look at the density of the print, a 720×720 print looks more dense than a lesser res. its got to use more ink.
chris
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720 x 720 = max 518400 dots per square inch
720 x 360 = max 259200 dots per square inchu could argue the 360 version doubling the passes to the 720 version is equal on consumption, yes.
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I would say those 2 calcs. make sense, I am just in the middle of printing 11 metres of 720 x 360, you can tell by looking at it that in the solids, theres seems to be dots missing, but as you say it will probably be sufficent for a large number of outputs.
One thing I can get rid of is the slight dead banding or is a drying problem due to the machine going faster, not enough of a problem to worry about though.
I think I will keep the mimaki for a good few years, but I am going to order in an Epson 9880 (AO Model) for the Photographic work we do.
Simon
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A JV3 only printing 2 or 3 times a week will probably use more ink self cleaning than it does printing. I recently got back from 3 weeks holiday, my 160S running full solvent ink was left unattended for the whole duration with sleep clean set to a 12 hourly cycle. There was about 360ml in the waste bottle, which represents about 120ml per week used for the auto clean routines. I use a bulk ink system, but on cartridges that would be at least a combined 440ml cart per month going down the drain on non-printing cleaning routines.
I also own a HP 3000CP running pigment ink. It used no ink at all while I was away on holidays. Not much good for printing to vinyl and banner though.
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360mm doesnt sound to bad over 3 weeks I have roughly calculated
440ml x 8 carts divided by 360ml is 9.7% of your ink. that works out at about £20 a week while you were away if using genuine ink. I am sure mine as been pumping out a lot more than that. did you say you use bulk inks?how does fair when getting any repairs done.
Simon
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quote SIMON JAMES:how does fair when getting any repairs done.
Simon
Mimaki/Hybrid will not honour any warranty if you use third party inks,
most people that use bulk systems have come out of warranty, or print on a scale that covers repairs, with the saving on the ink, but you are talking quite large numbers. Some bulk system suppliers will take over the warranty, but again you need to be using large quantities of ink.Peter
Peter
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Hi Simon, I do all my own repairs and maintenance so I can pick and choose whatever ink and spare parts I prefer – saves me a small fortune. If your sleep clean cycle is set to 8 hourly then you’ll probably be putting about 180ml per week in the waste bottle plus the amount used while actually printing.
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Hi Dave
I am using Shiraz also and going by your valued experience I need to change to 720 x 360
run off 11 metres last night
set up the print adjustment to near perfect
run shiraz profle for Metamark MD3 720 X 360
but it either gives deadbanding on the 4 pass the profile its set to or is it a drying problem cos the machine is going that much faster
tried print adjust on the run but what ever i do i still get a solid line (deadband)
when you run at 720 x 360 on shiraz do you get the same result or is there a secret way of tweaking it?
cant wait to find out!!!!!
kind regards
simon
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Ah, we have a different printer.. sounds like you got a JV3-SP, I have a JV3-S which is different in resolutions and head setup.
We run ours in 720×720 hi-speed mode 90% of the time, we drop to 540dpi res for banners.
No problems on photographic work, with the heads in very good alignment we found paper works really well on lo-headheight.
The printers that do pigment ink and hi-res do have better gamut range but in our case not worth spending the money on buying one when JV3 stands out, particularly as the print doesn’t fade for a good few years.
Will point out that an Epson 10000 is actually a JV3 or Roland as it uses the same heads. The secret is in the media and ink.
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Anyone got the JV33 yet? Is it much better than the JV3?
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i got a 33 late december had a jv3sp before find new machine a fair bit faster very impressed with it so far
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How is it for maintenance John? I hear the JV33 has very good self cleaning and can be left for long periods and still be switched on and print straight away?
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heard it has just one head, cost 1300 to replace
but supposed to be great quality
Ian -
when you turned on the jv3 before you started it would take a fair drink every time before it would measure the media and then print
the 33 goes straight to measuring the media and then on to print so it seems to be a lot less thirsty at that stage, the engineer who installed the machine says there have been lots of improvements but i have only had it a month and half of that was holidays so its a bit early but its certainly faster really nice prints and importantly the new solvent s21 inks don’t smell as strong as the old ones so thats got to be good
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thats good news then ian i kept my jv3 spotless and never had any trouble in 2 and a half years but i know that the four heads would have cost £2800 to replace so £700 each
i have been reading about you organising the course with roland
myself and my son in law who works for me are going down to london tommorow for wrapping course with bp i will let you know how it goes -
Look forward to it John
Ian -
I bought a JV33 back in October and I can’t say enough about it! The speed is definitely superior to my old JV3-spII. Though ink is expensive (compared to my old bulk ink) the color quality, and durability of this new SS21 ink is phenomenal. I’d like to see them release a 250 version of this printer. I’m looking to move up from my current 63", and not sure I want to go the JV5 route quite yet.
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