can anyone help me with desinging in corel12 please?

[Shane Drew]

you should export them as a file, say ai or eps, then re import that file into SB.

Much better than cut and paste because the program filters are able to define the file better

Hope that helps

[Gary Birch]

Russ
Export file as an eps file (usually onto desktop so I can find it) and then in signblazer inport the file

Should work

Cheers

Gary

[John Gregson]

Hi Russ,
If the above suggestions don’t work try converting to curves before exporting out of coreldraw then import into your cutting program
Cheers John

[Russ Draper]

Cheers for the advice guys, i have tried all the suggestion put forward but still with no joy!

I dont know what else to do, mighthave to change my software!

[Alan Drury]

I would keep with the export file route but try a few different settings ie. EPS export as level 1 – No header – Text to curves – No icc profile
AI – ensure ‘simulate complex fills/outlines is ticked OFF – use a low version of Illustrator ie 4 – Text to curves.

Alan D

[Jerry Bonham]

Hi All,
One of the most vexing problems facing newcomers to the sign industry is how to get files from one program to another. Really it is quite easy and simple if one follows a few simple rules.
Corel to any sign software.
1. Make sure your file in Corel is saved if it is important.
2. After you have selected text go to “Arrange” and select “Convert to Curves” command (Control key plus Q) and apply it. Do not save you Corel file again.
3. Other objects. Remove all properties if you have added them. To check simple click on node edit. If you can see the nodes then the objects are now pure vector objects. This is the purpose of converting to curves etc.
4. Then simply cut and paste it to your sign software. This works perfectly with SignBlazer, SignLab and FlexiSign. If this does not work (not all sign software programs are equal) then you will have to save it to a file.
5. Select all the vector objects you wish to export. Under file select “export”. Choose EPS (Encapsulated PostScript) and tick selected only. A dialog box will come up on the screen with two tabs – general and advanced. Under the general tab ensure that you tick the following — Image Header, tick this and have a tiff 8 bit image at 72 DPI selected. – Export Text – as curves. Other items you can safely ignore. Under the Advanced tab, for the best export choose PostScript Level One and restrict the bounding box to selected objects. (if anyone want me to explain all the options in more detail I would be delighted including when you choose to add ICC profiles to an export.)
Illustrator to any sign software.
1. Make sure your file in Illustrator is saved if it is important.
2. After you have selected your text go the menu “Type” and select “Create Outlines” (Shift +Control + O). Then apply the command. You text is now vector objects.
3. Other objects. Again if you can node edit them then they are cuttable vector objects.
6. Then simply cut and paste to your sign software. This works perfectly with SignBlazer, SignLab and FlexiSign. If this does not work (not all sign software programs are equal) then you will have to save it to a file.
4. Select all the vector objects you wish to export. Under file select “save as”. Select Illustrator EPS. When the next dialog box is shown then select “Illustrator 8 EPS” for SignBlazer, SignLab and FlexiSign. For other programs such as ArtCut you will need to choose Illustrator 3 EPS. Also ensure you tick the 8 bit tiff header box.

Some general notes about postscript.
SignBlazer has currently a level two postscript import and export. This year’s release will have level three import. Higher levels such as SignBlazer HotShot already have Level three export. FlexiSign has both Level 3 import and export. Of all the sign programs on the marker this is the only one I am aware which has a true Adobe PostScript license. Naturally you pay a lot extra for the this software feature as the license from Adobe is expensive and can run to 6 figures or more – a year!. Both SignLab and SignBlazer write their own PostScript Interpreter (what the import software is called). This is no easy task. There are only seven companies (there may be more but I only know of seven) in the whole world that have the technical ability to write a PostScript Interpreter. SignLab has quite a good postscript import and export. It is nowhere as good as FlexiSign. It certainly is more than adequate for most sign makers as is SignBlazer. ArtCut on the other hand was written by a now Doctor of Computer Science when a student. I personally know Dr Yu and he is at Beijing University. He told me he was never fully paid for the 8 years of work it took him to write ArtCut by hinself. So there has been little or no development work done on the software in the last 5 years. This is why it is sold retail for about a £1.00 in China. So it lacks any real sort of postscript import or export. It can scan or read only the simplest of postscript files. Only the very simplest postscript Level 1 files will import which contain only the ASCII commands such as “Line to” and “Curve to”. So no matter what software you have then if Level two (Illustrator 8) does not work then try Level One export (Illustrator Three).

Now you may notice that I have only mentioned EPS files and not AI files. Why? Essentially they are the same. However there are some very big differences. AI is the native file format of Illustrator. So if you have Illustrator CS2 then a huge amount of unwanted binary information will be added to the file boosting the size. It is desirable to have the smallest simplest file. For example one of our SignBlazer users sent me a 22 Mb AI file from Illustrator CS2. They could not open it in SignBlazer. All this file contained was 12 letters and a simple vector logo. Now I was curious what on earth took all the file space. When saved as an EPS the size was only 45k. That is a long way from 22 Mb. What is in the file? Well it had been produced by a very big design agency or company . Accidentally they had included all their Adobe Bridge stuff (enables many users to work on the same project at the same time). Of course it was password protected so the information could not be accessed. So today avoid AI format if you can as there will often be a lot of unwanted and unneeded size added to the file.

[Alan Drury]

Good, informative posts Jerry. FMI why do you need a header or icc profile when exporting eps?
I have always understood that these are not necessary when exporting for cutting as the importing programme is looking for the lines not the header which also would increase the file size. I know it is required for DP as the likes of Quark need this for positioning but some need a postscript printer for output.
Also icc profiles, is this really needed for cutting as colour is not the main issue.
Great posts, would like to hear and learn from your comments.
Regards
Alan D

[Jerry Bonham]

Hi Alan,
Thank You.
Why add headers to EPS files? Yes, Years ago this was definitely not considered necessary. It only added to file size when HDD space was very precious. However now with Vista on the horizon (forgive the pun – I could not resist it) previews of EPS files will be seen in a lot more programs. If you do not have a header there will be no preview in many of the programs. Some programs (SignBlazer has had it for years) build their own previews if there is no header and will display previews of files “instantly”. If you use Picasso (from Google and it is free!) as I do then you will realise the benefit of having the ability to “see” files and look for a file by it preview. I could not live without my Picasso.
I “lost” some photos I took in 1996 with my very first 2megapixel $2,400.00 Agfa digital camera. (yes that is what it cost and now I can buy a 5 megapixel camera of $46.00). Each time I changed computers (about once every 6-9 months) my old HDDs were copied to a new HDD and usually I made a folder called “Jerrys old c drive” or “d” or “e” and put the contents there. Now when you do that a few times some files tend to get buried under dozerns and layers and layers of subfolders. These lost photos were of a friend’s wedding and I needed them as the friend had asked if she could have copies of the files. I could not find them. How I looked & looked! So I concluded that they had been deleted accidentally. Along came Picasso last year and it scanned my HDD and guess what it found? The lost wedding photos!!! I had a very, very happy friend. Her photos were all lost in a house move when some boxes just vanished during the move.
How many times have you “lost” a file. Until I had the ability of having previews of my files I was always “losing” files as I could not remember what I called the file. If you do as I do I & create many new folders to put new files into and then if they are not used for a while forget what they were. We all have terrible naming systems for files. Yes, I know we all say that we will remember each “system” we use. So I have files such as “sue-0023.eps”. Was there a 22? Who was sue? Then I see a preview and I instantly know that sue was the name of the woman that run a poodle parlour. 23 was used because that was the street number! This is just made up however this is what I do when I name files and then forget why I named them that way until I see the preview. We all name our files with all sorts of things that appear appropriate at the time. Then we just as quickly forget, why?
Now go and find that file you made about September last year. You remember exactly what colors you used, exactly what fonts you used, you remember the design as you were very pleased with it at the time. However you cannot remember who the file was for or what the name of the file was or what the words were in the design. Yet, you can remember the exact shadow and direction you applied it! This is because we are “visual” people so images are what’s important to us. People are divided into three types of operational behaviour. Feeling, Auditory and Visual. Sign persons have to be visual persons. So we operate from mainly a visual reference point of view.
So with any preview system you can you back to September and look at all the previews of all the files you created in about 10 seconds flat and “hey presto” there you CAN SEE the exact file you wanted.
Is this a good thing, absolutely YES and I could not work today without it!. Vista and new versions of popular software programs will slowly address this problem in a variety of ways. Some program such as SignBlazer have already an elaborate easy to use “visual history” and “visual file find systems”.
As visual people (if you are a sign maker and have any success you have to be a visual person) we need visual systems such as Picasso from Google, ACDC, SignBlazer, and other VISUAL file find systems such as are in Windows Vista.
All design software and the tools that are part of our everyday use will all be visual. Why do I say that? Because we all vote with our pockets. I know I do. If the filing systems of my current software is falling behind in visual context then I know I will look at alternatives that make my VISUAL life easier. Why have we not had visual based file identifications systems before? The main reason is that computers now only have the HDD space and the sheer grunt to do this swiftly. The other reason is that computer programmers are usually feeling or auditory persons and do not have a visual orientation. So we have programs such as Illustrator and Corel which were never designed by visual orientated programmers yet it is VIUALLY ORIENTEATED designers who uses these programs.
No one has addressed this problem at all with the exception of one software program.
Think about this —- how often do you say “Just Show Me!”
Consider yourself lucky to be a visual person. How many times someone is shown say the plans to a house. You or I see the plans and can immediately visualise exactly what it is about. You may even be able to “see” in your mind’s eye the room furnished and in 3D. For a visual person this is just an exercise if you have not done this before. It may surprise you to know that when a auditory or a feeling person looks at plans all they see is lines on paper. They cannot visualise the room at all. I have an architect friend I used to discuss this with. He would quickly do a 3 D pencil sketch on paper of the room and show this to the client and then point to the “square” (all the client can see) on the plan and say this is what it will look like. How horrible to go through life and not “see” the way we visual persons do.
So our life as designers of signs will become much easier when new visual tools are introduced in our lives. WE NEED PREVIEWS. DEMAND this from your software provider if they do not have it. Change if they say they do not intend to offer it. After all if you provide design software, it should be visual based not text based. WYSWYG interface were once all the rage and the latest thing. Anyone remember or you just take this for granted today? Why did it stop there? Would you even consider a text based design software such as the old “LetterArt” dos stuff? No way!!! Where is “LetterArt” or “DegiArt” or “VinylWriter” today? All these were among the first vinyl cutting programs in the world and all were very expensive dos text based sign programs. Who remembers these programs? Come on you hardworking sign makers – demand change! It is about time our expensive sign software was brought up to date.

[Alan Drury]

So preview is mainly about house keeping rather than needed to make the programme work. OK – only problem is the previews are mormally so small you can’t tell what’s on them anyway.
What about ICC or did I miss something.
Alan D

[Jerry Bonham]

Aha! ICC Profiles. Now you have opened a can of worms. To explain why we should be adding ICC profiles to EPS files I need to give you a little background about color. ICC Stands for International Color Consortium and an introduction to what a ICC profile is can be found at http://www.color.org/iccprofile.html
This is essentially a non profit organisation which sets the international standards for digital color. All that sounds very well in theory however what about in practice?
So the ICC say in the shortest possible way what we should be doing with color. We start with the original. This may be a paint sample in our hand or it may be someone or something we are going to photograph. What we want to finish up with is the printed image from our wide format printer to be the same color as the original in our hand or vision.
Sounds simple. Well it is if everyone did what the ICC say to do. Now lets look at the process. Let say we need to photograph a product. It is red. Or we may want to scan an image. Or we may want to use a photospectrometer to read the color paint chip given to you by a client. The first step is to have whatever we want to print on our wide format printer into the software of our choice. This is where the first use of an ICC Profile should be introduced. So when we scan, read a paint chip with a photospectrometer, or take a photograph a previously built ICC profile will adjust the color to be what we want. This ICC Profile will correct the colors to a standard. And then it will be imported (the color information or ICC profile information) along with the photo. Often this standard is some sort of calibration chart or reference. The great thing about the ICC system is that the user can fine tune it to his exact needs or eye. Or just go along with a someone else’s standard. In other words it is totally flexible. I love it.
Next the workspace we use on our favourite software needs to be calibrated. This is done usually by the supplier of the software. I will not go into the subtle variations of gamma being applied to different workspace profiles. What I will say is to simply use the Adobe 1998 standard color space. If your software gives you a choice of a profile then choose this one. It sort of gives a central standard or point from which we all can work to ensure all output is matched correctly to the original. This is what it all about.
So when we output something from our software to go to a RIP then we want all our hard work in getting out color right to be reproduced by the RIP? Right?
So that is the theory in practice. Unfortunately in practice in the sign industry and graphics it is far from reality. Just check out the color management of your favourite software. (if you need info here ask and I will tell you more). I have the latest Illustrator CS2 and PhotoShop CS2 I use on a day to day basis for various things. I also have Corel 12 (I usually only upgrade Corel every couple of years instead of every version as I rarely use this software, nothing against it – it is great software). I also have copies of all the major sign programs. Now unfortunately I am going to wake up a can of worms about RGB and CMYK.
It just does not work. Let us look at reality. In my Corel 12 (Corel works in RGB) I cannot export CMYK vector colors! Yet I can change a raster image (photo or bitmap) into a CMYK color space. Now I would have thought that if Corel was going to comply with ICC that you could work in either CMYK or RGB for both vectors or raster objects. It gets worse. Adobe has long been touted to be the definitive standard to use for exact precise color. Ok we have (I am not knocking Corel or Adobe just using them as examples as how nonsensical all this color currently is and we are expected to make it work) a vector drawing in Corel with a Photo in the background. So as all the RIPs I know used in the sign industry are CMYK then we should have our objects as CMYK? Yes in theory and in practice? It just does not happen. Hold on – I am getting there!. So we export our drawing as an eps file. We want the ICC profiles we selected to be added to the eps file. Yes? What happens is that in my Corel 12 when I try to do this I discovered some time ago to my horror that Corel 12 can add a profile but it can only add a RGB profile for vector objects and yet you have a choice of a CMYK or RGB profile for raster objects. That just does not make any sense. Ok say I export a vector only drawing with an RGB profile and then import into Illustrator CS2. What do I find? Illustrator does not import ICC profiles at all from my Corel 12 generated vector RGB EPS drawing. PhotoShop is fine and imports the profile correctly. I can show dozerns of these inconsistencies in ICC implementation. It appears to be a mess that we have to work around.
Now ICC tell us that if we want color preserved (to be correct) then add the ICC profile to the exported object. ??????????????? What on earth is going on?
So now I have to go back to RIPs. Oh boy! What a real MESS and another can of worms. All of the RIPs being used in the sign industry are all CMYK. Even Roland’s own VersaWorks is CMYK.
WHY? Here we have Corel being touted as the program to use and it is RGB. All sign programs are basically RGB or can support CMYK objects to a limited extent. Everything is RGB! Even our eyes are RGB. Why would anyone want to use or even contemplate using CMYK?
The standard answer is that the ink set in the printer is CMYK. SO? Someone please tell me what on earth has got to do with anything? This has absolutely NOTHING to do with CMYK objects. It is just an ink set. Some Canon printers now have Red, green and blue ink! The real answer is simple. Most of the RIPs we use today are originally from technology developed from offset printing where YOU HAVE TO USE CMYK. So when other companies wrote RIPs instead of developing their own RGB technology they simply hired away programmers from the offset printing industry or tried to copy or emulate what others have done. So we finish up with a CMYK mess!
What about a fresh start? This is the most ridiculous situation one can imagine. Everyone is going on about color management and no one bothers to actually implement it correctly or even bother to produce a RGB RIP for wide format printers for the sign industry. Or even bother to make sure that you can add ICC profiles to files and the target application can import the ICC profile along with the other contents of the file.
Why a RGB RIP instead of a CMYK RIP. Well there are many reasons however the best one for me is that you lose a huge percentage of what inks can actually print when you use CMYK. Yes, that is correct the inkset in your wide format printer can print many more colors that can be sent to the printer from a CMYK color gamut. So we should be RGB all the way. Up to 20% more colors. OK, you say 20% is not much. Well did you know that few humans can detect a 20% change in the hue of a particular color. So if you extend colors by 20% the new colors available to the human eye will be huge. If that sounds confusing then think of it this way. You have a thousand different new colors recognised by the human eye. Each color needs a 20% change before you notice it. So the actual range will be more for the eye to see.
There are many, many other reasons and if anyone is interested I am happy to list them in detail.
Oh, I better now mention 16 bit editing in raster objects. Now we have some real grunt in computers we can do more intense processing of images. All (except PhotoShop CS2 and this only works partially in 16 bit) raster processing programs only work in 8 bit. Sorry 8 bit processing means there are 256 levels for any hue or color in a pixel. If we go to 16 bit then we have 256 x256 levels (65,536 levels). Just the thing for accurate gradients. How many times have I seen gradients printed out in steps? Will we ever have this? Oh, yes, this is going to be big issue as wide format printing is being now driven to improve it’s technology by the professional or commercial digital photographic industry. They are not putting up with all the rubbish that has been thrust onto the sign industry. They want perfection. Well we all know that there is no such thing. I think the word we hear now is “commercially acceptable”. So the professional digital photographic industry is NOT HAPPY. Unlike the sign industry they have huge numbers of real expert experts. They are NOT HAPPY. The very though of using a CMYK RIP to them is an abhorrence and a contradiction in terms. So all the RIP manufacturers in the world have missed out on the BIGGEST growing market in the world. A US$79.00 RGB RIP has taken most of the photographic market. Why? It is good and it is RGB! I have friends in the digital photo industry that do the most complex color matching imaginable with this RIP. Of course they build their own profiles. Do you? Have you even thought about building your own profiles? So 16 bit processing will be here and it is not going to go away. This will need file format upgrades and so on. Just a little more before I move on, many of my friends in the professional digital photo industry now only shoot RAW images. We have all heard about RAW images. But why would a professional photographer want to shoot in a format that has no standard? Simple they want 16 bit images and want to be able to control the color in their images right all the way through to the final print. Yes, they are that fussy. This even took the camera makers by surprise.
Now we need a RIP that can process 16 bit images. This cannot happen in CMYK RIPs (technically it can however the technology would not be easy so is unlikely to happen unless YOU demand it and why would you even want to think about improving obsolete technology). It can easily be introduced into RGB RIPs. And I predict that we may see this technology before the end of this year. After all we have 64 bit computers and 64 bit OS Vista here NOW!
I even see here people offering courses in color management for thousands of dollars. That has to be the biggest scam yet.
So the reason I say to add ICC profiles to EPS files is that some time soon (this year?) we will see that our major vector based software will be able to import ICC Profiles (and use them) correctly. So get used to adding profiles when you export EPS files. If your software can do this and if it cannot then ask why? Have you ever asked your software company anything? Do it, they welcome this sort of feedback and you will be surprised by the response (pleasantly). They want suggestions and directions to improve their software.
Here are some more crazy contradictions in color that need to be sorted out.
The first is that many RIPs (I am not allowed to name apparently in this forum) actually tell you NOT to add ICC profiles to postscript files when you export them from your software. ?????????? What that tells me is that they DO NOT HAVE correct color technology in their RIP. Check your RIP out and if it tells you this, kick up a stink if it says it is ICC Version 4 compliant. You have bought goods that are not what has been advertised. This is illegal in Australia and I am sure it is illegal in the UK as well. And most likely you have paid thousands of pounds for it. Really! So what is the point if you are a professional and have bought a photospectrometer and have calibrated everything all the way though to the final output to go to a RIP and it says, hey, we don’t want you hard work on color, we can only give you what we think the color should be???????? This is a real COP OUT.
The second really crazy contradiction is Pantone Colors. Do you know what these really are? Most think that it is a swatch of pretty colors for designers to use that complicate the poor sign makers life. Well how wrong you are. That is exactly what Pantone want you to think today. We have to go back in time. Pantone was (and still is) the most wonderful that ever happened to the offset printing industry. When offset printing was first introduced it took off in much the same way wide format printing tool off today. However it was in its infancy. The basic CMYK ink colors were not to the standard of today’s CMYK offset printing inks. So when you attempted to print certain colors (especially light colors) they were muddy in appearance. So Pantone came to the rescue and in the process became a billion dollar company for solving this problem. How did they solve it? Simple they supplied pure color spot color inks. So if you wanted that Pantone 345 light green you bought a can of Pantone 345 green ink and used it in your offset printing press as a spot color. A spot color is simply one that is printed by itself with no other color added. (yes, I know that some printers add grey or white for special reasons in special circumstances). So what do we have here in Pantone colors?
We have a range of specially made colors that can be manufactured from pigments to
Print colors that can NEVER be printed by CMYK!!!!!!!!
This color range is LIMITED (yes LIMITED) by the pigments available in the world to print pure colors that CANNOT be printed by offset printing using CMYK inks.
Hey, and did I hear that you are trying to match Pantone colors with your CMYK RIP and a CMYK inkset? A bit of a contradiction? At a trade show some years ago (yes, I am a real stirrer!) I took along my Pantone Swatch. A company we all know was proudly printing out great swaths of little color squares on their wide format printers and saying – “Hey, look at all the Pantone Colors our printer can print – we can 95% of Pantone colors”. I have pretty good color vision (tested by Kodak to be in 0.1% of the population) and it annoyed me no end that the colors being printed did not look correct to me. So out with my Pantone book and sure enough about 10% of the colors printed could be said to match the Pantone book. I am sure that this is illegal without permission from Pantone. After that I did not see the same print outs being done at trade show again.
So guys, in summary DEMAND from your software supplier compliance with ICC version 4. I mean REALLY DEMAND. If they say they have it then test it. All the technology exists and is proven so there is no excuse unless it is ignorance. Yes, perhaps the great gods (they want us to think that software is done by wizards) of software that produce your favourite have some blind spots? Demand what should be there.
I hope I have opened a can of worms here as this issue needs to be brought out in the strong light of day. I am happy to provide more and detailed information on any aspect of color.
Oh, another grumble about Color Management. The actual ICC profiles themselves. A good profile should have a minimum of 32 points along each axis (there are 4 axis). Most ICC profiles I have seen have only 8 points. Also many profiles have these 8 in predetermined positions. In reality the 32 points should be free to be distributed where they are needed most. Perhaps all bunched up on one side, no evenly distributed. Oh, it easy to tell how many points. If the ICC profile is about 2 Mb then it has 32 points. It is say around 300K then it has 8 points. If it is less than that then it likely to have less points. The more points the higher the accuracy of your color matching abilities.
Good Color Management is on its way. So add ICC profiles to your EPS files now. In years to come you will thank me when you go to reprint that image for your client. You will have preserved the color information (to some perhaps primitive extent, when viewed in the future). So add ICC profiles even if it sounds a bit pointless at the moment.
Oh, I did not mention the different color spaces available – if you can work in a choice of color spaces then work in CIEXYZ. This is better than CIE LAB. Why? Simple XYZ color space can describe more colors (what you want) and is linear (think of a straight line graph and you have the idea) whereas LAB is logarithmic (think of a graph with a curve on it).
Summary.
1. Always if you can add ICC profile to your exported EPS files. If not for today definitely for the future.
2. Check out your software and make sure the color management works. If not ask the company that produces it why? Demand it works if they advertise it does.
3. Look forward to 16 bit processing. (a seamless vector gradient printed to a wide format printer will be fantastic if when rasterized it is done in 16 bit instead of 8 bit.)
4. Make an effort to be conversant with color management and what it can do for you.
5. Don’t enrol in expensive color management courses. It really is as simple as ABC. It just at the moment it is poorly implemented if at all so it not your fault that it appears hard.
6. Finally look forward RGB RIPs which handle rasterizing in 16 bit not 8 and this nonsense of CMYK RIPs thrust upon us being a thing of the past which we will look back upon with bemused thoughts.

We are in for some big changes in our software this year and next!

[Andrew Bennett]

Wowser,
Jerry that was a seriously interesting read.

I certainly hope you are going to stick around and write some more.

Are you doing tertiary stuff or relying on personal experience please?
regards
Andrew

[Graeme Harrold]

Bl**dy good read……

Currently I dont have much need for ICC profiles with my eps work as I only need outlines however I do end up doing vectorising work for other people

Cheers

[Karl Williams]

Jerry, Have you ever thought about writing a book mate? Oh, sorry you just have! 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

[Alan Drury]

Hi Jerry, informative post. X3 has been changed regarding RGB and CMYK within the colour manager but I’m not sure if that is essentially for display. I set up files in CMYK, I then print my files to Acrobat to create a PDF which are then sent mainly to litho printers for output this is however quite different from large format RIPS. If you get X3 at some point I would be very interested in any findings you make also there is a Corel News Group primarily for colour management and I am sure you observations would be well received there.
Alan D