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can anyone advise with acrylic letters please?
Evening all,
We did an aluminium tray a few weeks ago that’s powder coated and had some 5mm acrylic letters made and supplied by a company that won’t be named. The backs of the letters have strips of VHB tape applied and the letters themselves are approx 650mm high. Now the sign is 25 ft off the ground and as I drove past tonight, the letters have slipped at least 3 inches and look ready to fall. The VHB tape is still on the tray and it seems it’s slipped off the acrylic letters. Have they used the wrong tape or is it down to the weight. My problem is I can’t get up there without a scissor lift to take the sign down, but need a fast fix tomorrow incase the letters fall as its above the main entrance. Has anyone ever used pink grip or similar to bond acrylic to a powder coated tray. Also are the acrylic letter suppliers responsible?
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21 Replies
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If its coming off the letter and the letters were supplied with the tape on then get back to the supplier. I had a glue failure on a set of letters on the locators and Fabricut owned up to a faulty batch of glue and not only did they replace the letters but they sent their own team out to re fit the job for me all FOC
This was a few years ago and not had another issue but 1st port of call must be the supplier.
Good luck sorting and don’t leave it too long
Cheers
Warren
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I’ll definitely be on the phone when they open. Just aggro I could do without. I reckon they haven’t used the right tape. Although there was quite a bit on it, it was only probably 12 mm. Given the weight of the acrylic it probably needed to be at least 25mm strips. It could be the case that the tape has split as its only foam tape and the back of the letters also have tape still stuck to them. Either way it can’t be down to us surely. Just it doesn’t look good in front of the customer who is just about to order another big sign. What would you suggest to bond acrylic letters to Ali trays other than tape just incase?
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HI not sure we would ever use VHB on its own due to historical experiences and certainly not with acrylic due to expansion contraction issues.
We would tend to use a product made by bighead fasteners called bigbond high grab
www,bighead.co.uk
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Cheers Adrian.
Surely the supplier of the letters should have warned us about vhb tape on this size letter if it was a bit touch and go. Personally I’ll be using the high bond adhesive next time, that you posted, but I’ve already paid over £700.00 for the acrylics for this job. The blame must stop with them if the tape has failed. It looks like I’ve got vhb tape on the tray and also still on the back of the acrylic.
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Dont get me wrong VHB tape is a very good product but the application of it is critical, both surfaces must be meticulously cleaned and the vhb tape should be applied with heat and pressure and allowed to "cure" before being stressed, this may not have happened in your case and if it is 3M version a complaint direct to them might help.
We have used in the past and a sign fell down on us and have never used since we complained to 3M and did not get very far as they cited incorrect application technique.
If you bought the sign completley built up and asssembled before fitting then I cannot see how supplier can wriggle out of this but ???
Above is reason we are very careful where we use VHB tape
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We purchased the letters with the tape already applied, but we applied the acrylic to the tray. I don’t even know if it’s 3M. It looks as if the tape has failed ie ripped down the middle, as the adhesive to both sides is still on the acrylic and tray. It’s the foam part that’s perished. Never had this problem before. I can only think there wasn’t enough tape on the backs and the weight of the acrylic is too much.
Seems strange that they haven’t fell though, just slipped down
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This definitely sounds like dodgy tape as the tape has failed, 3M is easy to recognise and they always have their logo all ove the peel off strip
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A common problem with VHB tape often comes back to the sign maker.
Lack of experience and knowledge of VHB tape, how it should be applied and more.
As has been said, VHB tape has a strict application process. clean clean, consistent pressure, warm room temp and remember, "score the surface" also!
Acrylice is very smooth and it is advised to cross score the surface to aid key’ing.i would say the biggest problem with VHB tape is the sign maker buying the wrong type of VHB tape. most just assume VHB is VHB and sticks anything!
this is NOT the case. you must check the spec always… some are metal to metal, some coated surface to metal, some acrylic to whatever, etc etc etc
you really MUST check.also, there are far too many VHB tapes appearing. its like vehicle wrap media. everyone is claiming to have the best or 3M equivalent, which is the one i hear most.
Here is a video using 3M VHB tape, has this stuff been used with the proper application practice? doubt it!
<embed width=”452″ height=”361″ quality=”high” bgcolor=”#000000″ wmode=”transparent” name=”main” id=”main” allowfullscreen=”false” src=”http://www.isigntube.com/player/vPlayer.swf?f=http://www.isigntube.com/player/vConfig_embed.php?vkey=2084c5f4e7e85a093e6d” type=”application/x-shockwave-flash”>
By the sounds of it the letters have been stuck using a cheap foam-stick tape. dont get me wrong, i have take signs down with flatcut letters on the face stuck soley by cheap foamstick and they are stuck solid. but you CAN prize them off by tearing them off the surface which basically seperates by tearing the core.
sounds like the core of your tape has tarnished quickly which leaves both surfaces of the stape still stuck, but the middle section wasted.very difficult to guess without seeing it first hand but i would say the tape is to blame. if the tape is repuatble, then its the wrong version oof the tape for the surfaces in question.
i would say the letter supplier will have to take blame here "IF" the tape is bonded on both surfaces. if the letters had come away and all the tape on the rear of the letters ide have blamed the powder coated surface. which kinda turns the table on you if you didnt advise them of the surface their tape had to adhere too.
anyway… bets of luck mate and good to see you back on the boards Tony, long time mate! 😀
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after looking this morning, the acrylic has slipped off the tape by the looks of it, so maybe you are right rob, have they used the wrong tape? there doesnt seem to be enough behind it to me. could that be a factor? also would the heat from the sun do this? or the rain? surely vhb tape can perform in heat and wet weather otherwise whats the point. ive used this company a few times with bonded letters and never before has this happened. im worried all the rest of the letters on the building will fail now.
would you say this is down to them?
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strange thing is getting up there this morning, they are still stuck pretty well even though they have slipped, which is making me think its to do with the climate. is the tape going soft with the sun hitting the acrylic? would a 3m tape perish in the weather in 3 weeks with the expansion and contraction of the letters?
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Hi Tony
There was another thread on here where someone had a similar issue, they changed the tape to a thinner tape (thickness not width) and the problem was resolved.
When the letter were getting warm the shear forces were causing the centre cention of the tape to stretch I believe.
Hope this is of some help.
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thanks tim
that could be a possible option but that must surely be down to the people who made the acrylic letters wouldnt it?
basically i need to use a scissor lift to take the sign back down to fix the problem and would i be right in thinking i shouldnt foot the bill???
afterall i paid good money for them.
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I would try for a solution akin to Warrens, ie see if your supplier has a team to come out and rectify the fault that would be the most appropriate response if you send them that photo IMHO
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well, it looks like most of the other letters are failing aswell. although smaller the tape is coming away from the acrylic. have spoke to the manufacturer and basically he reckons its the heat from the sun thats perished the adhesive through expansion and contraction. his answer was he will send out some more tape.!!!!!!!
we’ve just taken the sign down and have now got to clean all this mess up.
not happy!!!
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time to name and shame 😀 not a great response
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well it looks as if the adhesive on the tape has just simply melted away from the foam centre under the heat from the sun (not good) the supplier has blamed the tape supplier who in turn apparently said sorry!!!!!! thats alright then!!!
the tape is made by or sold by titan tapes ive been told.
however, im being sent some new tape and have got to apply to the acrylic myself.
ive taken robs advice and scored the backs and also i was going to use an adhesive like CT1 or similar or is that a waste of time?
because they are being bonded to a powder coated aluminium tray should i also score the tray itself for both the tape and CT1?
the letters are 565mm high so is there a preference to which way i should run the tape. common sense is telling me to run the tape in vertical strips
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So did they tell you what tape they had used in the first place? Just had a look at titan tapes website & can’t see a white VHB tape, all the ones I could see were clear but maybe I missed one.
I wouldn’t have relied on VHB tape on it’s own to start with though to be honest, just helps me to sleep at night having taken a belt & braces aproach to this sort of job.
If you use a bit of adhesive as well as the new tape they send at least you know you won’t be taking it down again in a hurry to fix the letters again.Yes rough up the face of the panel a little to give it something to key to but don’t go mad & leave any bare metal anywhere.
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thats the way forward. im going to use CT1 and rough up the surfaces along with the new tape they send me.
just out of interest, what tape does everyone else use for bonding acrylic letters to powder coated aluminium trays?
ive never purchased it as never needed to, only banner tape.
at least if i buy my own, when things go t**s up ive only got myself to blame!!!
such a nice feeling putting something right thats not your fault……….
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Tony, your best bet would be to contact a tape supplier and speak to them. As Robert has already said there isn’t one tape that will do all so they will be able to help with specific types of material & also on what you should buy & stock for cleaning & priming.
Can’t really help with which supplier personally but a search should help as it’s been talked about before. -
yes definitely score the powder coated surface as well, I did a small sign with acrylic letters and parts started falling off, scored the surface and not had any issues since so yes I would score it.
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hi Tony – been doing this type of thing for donkeys and would only use the VHB as an initial holding device until a good quality adhesive like Tec7 stuck. So VHB strips to back of letter in strategic places, then lots of adhesive when your up the ladder – slap it on the wall and the VHB will do the work until the gloop kicks in. Adhesive on it’s own will slide at first if used only on it’s own (my experience anyway)
Total pain in the ass mate, eh? seems the higher up/further away/most awkward to fit they are, the more likely they’ll wrong….
Good luck with it,
Martin
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