Business Plan (now a swear word in my house)

[Phill Fenton]

1/ Get yourself a decent cutter – £2200 will get you a Summagraphics D750 or similar. Alternatively you could consider buying a second hand Roland PC60 or 600 to use as a cutter and also enable you to offer print work.

2/ Buy Signlab for designing your signs.

3/ Stick to the idea of running the business from an industrial unit and register for VAT from day one.

4/ Contact your local government funded Business advice centre and get on a business start up course

5/ Ask your local business advice centre for a list of businesses in your area and start phoning them up one by one explaining that you intend to start making signs and asking them if this is a service they could use. This will provide you with your initial customers.

6/ Join the UKSG to get the best prices for your sign making materials. (PM Rob for details if unsure how to join)

7/ Buy a copy of Mikes CD “Secrets of design” and Mike Stevens (an American Author) book “Mastering Layout”

8/ Buy a new van 😉

9/ Enjoy yourself – This is a great business to be in which can offer you a reasonable livelihood if you’re prepared to work hard

If you’d care to send me a copy, I would be pleased to look over your draft copy of your business plan and add my own comments.

GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR VENTURE 😀

[t-winks]

Hi if your looking at promo work, you might want to think about sublimation printing, try a company called mega, start up kits from around £750

Tony

[Phill Fenton]

I am offended 😉

There’s no point in going into business half heartedly, if your going to do it… do it properly.

IMHO the reason why a lot of new start businesses fail (I don’t just mean sign businesses here) is because the owner is not fully comitted to making it work/hasn’t invested enough/is only dabbling (Pick any one or all of three).

The PC60 and 600 is a cutter as well as a printer. A second hand one of these can be bought for little more than the price of a good quality new cutter – this makes it a very useful piece of equipment.

Signlab is one of the best programs on the market for sign making. Again a good investment.

A new van is not an expensive aquisition in the overall scheme of things when setting up, and its a very good way to promote your business.

No point in being negative when starting up – think positive and make it happen 😀

My experience is limited to the signmaking (Vinyl) side of the business – so if you’re looking at screen printing and clothing you need to get advice from others that do this sort of thing.

Any new business is very hard work. If you’re having doubts then it’s probably better not to do it. However, you only get one life (At least that’s what I’ve always believed) so go for it.

I’m not saying I’m right – just offering up my point of view.

As with all things in life you should examine all the options and get as much advice as you can before making your own decisions.

Phil’s advice is as valid as mine 😕 – these are just different points of view for you to consider 😀

[Steve Broughton]

quote rightsigns:

I’m not saying I’m right – just offering up my point of view.

Then why did you feel the need to post twice eh! Phil 😆 😆 😉

Yes Signlab is good and i’ve used it from day 1 but given the choice 7 years ago I would have bought VMP and saved myself £1500.

New vans bah! Rubbish 😎 why shell out 12 or 14 grand and get yourself into debt at the start when a decent second hand van will be just as good, have a look in the Autotrader Phill I bet yours is worth what £5k after 2 years, think of all that money you’ve lost on it, yes I know it probably made you more in that time but thats a weak argument when you’re starting out mate, modern vans run & run as long as you look after them & get them serviced regularily then theres no reason why you shouldn’t keep it for years, I’ve had my Escort 6 years bought it second hand from BT it had done 40 thousand miles and has now just turned over 100,000 and I’ll change it next year.

And don’t even get me started on Colourcamms we’ve been round and round this argument before 😆 like I said they make good door stops. 😆 😆

[Sparky]

Sorry Phill, I have to disagree too 🙁

I tried this in my first 6 months & wasted the capital i did have from the start !! Got a posh “business unit” in Peterborough, £100 a week rent & rates, no work !!!

I then listened to Donna, bought a £600 shed for the back garden & traded there for 2 years until we had enough work to support a workshop.

Here we are 3 years on …. 2 small workshops in a backstreet of the town centre & managing OK.

IMHO unless you have a LOT of money to throw into it during the first year, start at BEST with a cheapie little workshop & try to grow.

Vans …. Like Steve, I have an old (1995 M) Escort, had it nearly 2 years now, 165,000 miles & the only expense over the last 20 months has been servicing, cambelt & a clutch ratchet arm (£30 fitted) ……. cost me £1400 when i bought it & probably worth a grand now (like Steve’s it’s VERY clean).

All my personal views & experiences but I think if you have £25,000 to pump into it that you CAN afford to lose …. yes, you might get a big business going, if you’re a working man like me ……. grow with your customer base 😀

Hope this helps

John

[Lorraine Buchan]

Hi Rhys

Everyone has given you advice already, but it can be difficult to advise as we don’t know your budget for the business.

One thing you need to consider is the sort of customer you want and the scale of jobs you will be doing.

Vinyl plotter wise its no good buying a 24″ cutter if your dealing with 30″ graphics – you can do it with a smaller cutter but its more labour intensive pasting up, having said that a 54″ plotter isn’t going to be economical for smaller graphics.

Screen printing…. this is a large area and you have to concider a lot of things, are you going to make your screens in house, if so you need all the relevant equipment, a way to produce your positives, dark room for emulsioning screens, uv exposure unit, washout booth. environmental health is also a factor.
What substrates are you planning to print and at what size. Drying racks, ovens, infrared conyaver dryers.

Garment printing using transfers, can be produced with your vinyl cutter or can be computer printed. Depending on your printer you can produce transfers that way too. You will need a heat press. My advice here is to go for a swing action the most comon one you will find is the adkins one, xpress, the magic touch sell these re-branded. you can quite often pick one up on Ebay.co.uk for a good price, i think this one up for auction now. new they retail around £1000 +vat second hand you can get them from £300-£600 These swing presses alow you to do a variety of other products, for example mouse mats award plaques (depending on your printer)

I also don’t think you need a new van or a van at all, again this depends on the sort of work you do. I don’t have a van, but if i were doing more fitting and traveling about then i would see it as an advertising advantage. A well looked after second hand van would do the job nicely!

Industrial unit – make sure you check out any hidden costs, service charge, estate mantainance etc.. and register for VAT

Software – theres lots of options out there, you can use corel draw with a cutting add on like signcut or cocut, or you can go for software made specificly for sign making like signgo, vinyl master pro at the lower price bracket or at the higher end flexi sign and signlab. Do try and get a deal where the cutter you buy comes with software there are a few deals like this around at the moment.

I hope this helps if you have any specific questions feel free to ask.

[Rodney Gold]

One thing to consider is theis: If the man incurs all these expenses and starts up the “right” way , he is going to be lean and hungry , he will be motivated to find work to cover his overheads and he will grow.

If you look at the signage industry in general , and look at what you are selling , it’s actually NOT signage , its a form of recognition and perception.
How can you upsell a client a sign with the words “This is the first thing the customer sees of you , it forms his initial impression and is your form of advertisement” , if you dont really live up to it yourself.
No matter HOW good the grease stained shadetree mechanic is , most folk would rather take one’s car to a “reputable” franchised type garage

I suppose it depends on your personal goals and ambition and where you base your business , if it is in a busy commercial centre , you face opposition and barriers to entry via other established sign businesses , and will have to fight fire with fire , if it is a rural quiet area where you are the only act in town , the circumstances change.
IMHO if you are in the signage business , whats the point of a shiny spanking new vehicle (unless warantee etc is a concern) if you can “decorate” it to detract from lets say , a slightly tattier model and make it your mobile billboard.
Vans are not really an income producer , I would buy an older or late model and spend the rest on something that is directly concerned with production.

As to the PC60 – well we have one and its really only good for very small stuff , like teeny stickers etc , as a cutter its pretty slow ? I dunno , as a screen printer and a signage guy I would buy a dedicated cutter , I feel that anything bigger than a5 on a 60/600 is sort of “looking for trouble” , HOWEVER the 60/600 CAN print for garment transfer , and thus if the poster is looking to do clothing , this might be a pretty good buy.

As to computer programs , buy the one that saves you the most time.
Design conceptualization is quick , actually implementing that design on a computer is not , and if you are gifted in conceptualization , you will stifle your creative process in trying to find workarounds on sub par packages etc. Corel 11 is a very good package , a lot better than the older versions and is a “cheap” alternative (Anyone else find that even versions of Corel suck , the odd ones always seem better?)
We NEVER buya a package unless the agents can actively demonstrate that the bread they promise it will slice chew and digest does come out the other end:)
Just as an aside , when I devolp a new product or process , I start at the impossible end , IE push the envelope , if that works then the easier stuff is a breeze , if ti doesnt , then I know where the limitations are.

I really think the original poster should be encouraged in his endeavours , a business plan IS the right way to start , the only rider I would add is that a business plan is pretty useless unless there has been some market research as to size and scope of the market and how competitive one would be in that market , and where one positions oneself therein.
In my business , the 2 items that have REALLY made a difference in terms of growth and quality of outputwere
a: Appointing a dynamic Rep
b: Buying a laser

At some stage I will do a sort of report of what a Laser cutter/engraver can do for the signage business and post it here.

[Martin C]

One thing that appears to have been overlooked in some of the replies is the learning curve you have to go through to learn the different aspects of any trade and in Screenprinting/T-shirt printing/Vinyl Graphics/Design etc., etc., you will need learn many new talents.

For that reason I’d avoid the lean and mean approach until you’ve cut your teeth with less equipment and a little less outlay. Give it as long as you think neccessary and your second hand equipment will still have a value to it when you trade up. (anyone want to buy my old 166MMX PC?)

Think of it like the purchase of your first car. Nice to get a brand new showroom model, but your almost certain to hit the kerb a few times, guaranteed to lose money from day one and what kind of gal is it that’s only interested in the size of your camshaft anyway! (:)

[John Childs]

Whatever the business and whatever the capital available the guiding principle must be to keep your overheads to an absolute minimum and consequently maximise your return on capital invested. The object is to keep the money in your pocket, whether for enjoying the good life or for investing further down the line. The choice should be yours.

Do you need flash premises? Our customers don’t come to see us but rather the other way round. We could be operating in a tin shack on the face of Jupiter for all they know.

Do you need a flash van? I wouldn’t recommend a banger but an excellent two year old vehicle can be bought for about half the price of an old one. How the hell will they know that you haven’t owned it from new and are thinking of replacing it within the next year?

Do you need expensive sign software? Not if you can do all you need in Corel or Illustrator.

Finally, having lots of overheads is acceptable when things are good but what happens when recession comes? You don’t want lots of fixed costs when the work has slackened. That’s a sure route to Carey Street.

[Geraint Rhys Williams]

Thanks for all the pointers, some very encouraging, some not so.

I wont be buying a new van thats for sure, I may even just purchase a good second hand estate car (something that would stay of use to me if things were to go pear shaped) and put a roof rack on it for jobs with posts etc. (Could always borrow or hire a van for the odd day or two if required anyway)

Awkward thing for me is a/ I dont have a garage b/ My garden is too small to start thinking off adding a shed of any reasonable size.

My Inn-laws have a double garage, which lies empty, but its about 15miles away ( I do think though that is the route I will be taking).

I can get a small unit on a month by month basis for less than £200 per month (but this does exclude rates, bills etc) should the Inn-laws garage not be available to me.

Im still thinking hard and long, and spending as much time preparing etc, to make sure that when I do make the plunge, I dont have any nasty surprises.

By the way its my birthday today!!!!!! – Im 32 and going nowhere!!!

PS, The learning curve that was mentioned in one of the replies does not put me off. We are all learning every day!

[Lorraine Buchan]

Happy Birthday Rhys

Just a though, why not ask Rob (site administrator) if there are any guys near you then maybe you could go visit a few to see what sort of set up they have

[Phill Fenton]

quote Rhys9918:

By the way its my birthday today!!!!!! – Im 32 and going nowhere!!!

Happy Birthday and don’t listen to the “Surrender Monkeys” 😕 – 32 is young. I was 38 when I first became a signmaker, and that was seven years ago.

Running your own business is hard work – but you must have a positive attitude about it particularly in the first couple of years.

In the middle of my second year I looked into the idea of giving up the unit we work from and re-locating to our garage. My wife Alison persuaded me that this would be a backward step and was the wrong thing to do. Looking back now – she was right.

She’s not always right though… she agrees with the rest who say a new van is an extravagant expense. 🙄

[Martin C]

quote :

PS, The learning curve that was mentioned in one of the replies does not put me off. We are all learning every day!

Your right not to be put off Rhys and I wasn’t suggesting that you should be. It’s just that in your original post you said you wanted to do screenprinting, sportswear and vinyl and whilst there are a lot of transferable experiences that’s a lot to learn from day one.

I sold signs some years ago but entered the industry proper quite recently utilising my equipment for T-shirt printing. I know I’m not alone in saying how much I’ve learnt from these boards in recent months but ‘knowing’ what to do and actually doing is a big challenge. Softly softly catchy monkey!

[Javid]

I would just like to thank everyone who has taken the time to post a comment to try and help us newbies! 😀
I have been in design for years and have recently taken the plunge to manufacture the signage in house (in garage actually).

Only Rhys knows how deep his pockets are, but I definately feel more secure knowing that i have built up my equiptment list in relation to the number of jobs on.
Every new bit of equiptment will take some time to master, so being too diverse from the start could make your life harder than needed.

I am not sure of your experiance but here are a few things to concider:
How long will it take you to design/cut/weed/apply vinyl to a vehicle?
How much revenue will that generate?
Will you make more money concentrating on the screen printing/promotional items first and then expanding to vehicle signage?

Phil has made some excellent points regarding VAT and reading up on design and especially to enjoy yourself 😆

[jon vital]

I think there are too many people doing promotional gear. And are the profits really that good?

Also, isn’t it illegal to register for VAT unless if you are above the threshold?

[ruth]

Where are you Rhys? Perhaps we should get together?

[Kevin.Beck]

Jon Vital – There are alot of people doing promotional items i agree. But if you look in the yellow pages there are possibaly 3 – 5 times more sign companys.

I agree profits are not high- per unit. Theres only so much profit in a tee shirt.etc. But the numbers ordered make up for it.

eg. 36 tees printed 1 side, 1 colour. profit £70 for 30 mins work.

Today I printed 300 mouse mats, in just over 1 hr. Got good money for them. 😳

So there is money out there, you just need rise above the plonkers selling their products too cheap.

[Geraint Rhys Williams]

I must say thanks to everyone that has read and posted to my topic. its great to see encouragement.
I half expected to see a lot of replies trying to put me off as there are undoubtedly a lot of people doing this.

Thanks again everyone on this subject.

Ruth and Ramjam, Im in the Bridgend area, so not a million Miles away from you in Narbeth.