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BN20 verses Direct to garment Printer
I am considering buying a Roland BN20 or a Direct to garment printer for T Shirts, which would be cheaper in respect to running cost per garment , has anyone figured this out? . Or are there other reasons to go with the Roland BN20 because of the extra markets (stickers and the like) it can cope with,
Regards
Graham -
32 Replies
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can’t see the likeness of the 2 machines.
1 prints to media
1 prints to the shirt -
The likeness is, that they could both be considered for producing t-shirts.
I was also comparing these two options. With the BN20, the process looks far more long winded to me. You print to a media, weed it, then apply an adhesive facing paper, remove the backing, apply to garment and heat press.
That seems too time consuming to me.
You’ve got the cost of the ink, the printable media, the facing paper/app tape so it could all mount up to quite a bit per t-shirt, depending on how big your prints are.
I would prefer direct to garment but i can’t see a safe enough machine to spend the kind of money they cost yet though, heard too many bad things about them.
I would like to here some info from roland on cost per t-shirt etc, so may be doing some research as well.
Liam
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have roland got some magic t shirt material that does not look or feel like a sticker. instead of just ink on the shirt.
i have tried most print materials for shirts and they all come up short of the mark. -
quote Liam Pattison:The likeness is, that they could both be considered for producing t-shirts.I was also comparing these two options. With the BN20, the process looks far more long winded to me. You print to a media, weed it, then apply an adhesive facing paper, remove the backing, apply to garment and heat press.
That seems too time consuming to me.
You’ve got the cost of the ink, the printable media, the facing paper/app tape so it could all mount up to quite a bit per t-shirt, depending on how big your prints are.
I would prefer direct to garment but i can’t see a safe enough machine to spend the kind of money they cost yet though, heard too many bad things about them.
I would like to here some info from roland on cost per t-shirt etc, so may be doing some research as well.
Liam
I also share your reservations on the quality of the DTG printers, the pre treatment of the garment that is required or specific textiles for some machines, a few rave about DTG and more share the bad points, there is more time involved in the weeding and this is very time consuming, that would be the big saving, currently using jet opaque paper and chroma blast with a contour cut, which works well but this is limited to contour cutting.
Regards
Graham -
quote Chris Wool:have roland got some magic t shirt material that does not look or feel like a sticker. instead of just ink on the shirt.
i have tried most print materials for shirts and they all come up short of the mark.Chris, I have never heard of magic t shirt material , who supplies it (is it magic touch) ? and is it for ink jet or laser jet printers.
Regards -
the small roland as i posted in another thread is slow, really slow.. so you need a lot of patience to do a run of 6 chest prints and plenty of tea bags
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quote Graham Shand:quote Chris Wool:have roland got some magic t shirt material that does not look or feel like a sticker. instead of just ink on the shirt.
i have tried most print materials for shirts and they all come up short of the mark.Chris, I have never heard of magic t shirt material , who supplies it (is it magic touch) ? and is it for ink jet or laser jet printers.
Regardslol I think you need to read Chris’s post again :lol1:
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quote Neil Speirs:quote Graham Shand:quote Chris Wool:have roland got some magic t shirt material that does not look or feel like a sticker. instead of just ink on the shirt.
i have tried most print materials for shirts and they all come up short of the mark.Chris, I have never heard of magic t shirt material , who supplies it (is it magic touch) ? and is it for ink jet or laser jet printers.
Regardslol I think you need to read Chris’s post again :lol1:
whoops , I see whit ya mean,
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You cannot really compare the two machines, if you are doing several hundred shirts a week / month then perhaps a DTG printer is for you and that would mean that garment decoration is the main core of your business.
The BN-20 in my mind is aimed at the textile heat applied market but also allows you to do the same type of printed work on a host of other printable materials, for someone looking to move into printing the BN-20 may be the way to test the water, so to say.
Nigel
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Grafityp were showing off some new printable garment vinyl at P&P this year, I think it was manufactured by Siser. Instant drying, stretchy and light on the garment. Still need to contour cut though.
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Neil you are correct it is from Siser and is ready to apply straight after printing………contour cut and weeding out may be required if needed 😀
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Can anyone suggest a good DTG machine supplier with UK support ?
regards
Graham -
You would be best joining t-shirtforums.com, you’ll find loads of info good & bad about DTG there. Tread slowly…
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We have been considering the DTG dilemma ourselves. I cannot make the numbers work. The quantity needed to make it pay in a reasonable time makes it more viable to produce in screen format. I understand the low volume short run advantages of the concept but feel that the transfer quality from some of the suppliers is pretty good now. Yes you need to contour cut and weed but this is a small price to pay for reasonably low cost per shirt and the massively lower cost of entry. DTG machines are expensive and temperamental. Not a mass production machine yet.
|Just my opinion and experience tho 🙂
Peter
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quote Peter Mindham:We have been considering the DTG dilemma ourselves. I cannot make the numbers work. The quantity needed to make it pay in a reasonable time makes it more viable to produce in screen format. I understand the low volume short run advantages of the concept but feel that the transfer quality from some of the suppliers is pretty good now. Yes you need to contour cut and weed but this is a small price to pay for reasonably low cost per shirt and the massively lower cost of entry. DTG machines are expensive and temperamental. Not a mass production machine yet.
|Just my opinion and experience tho 🙂
Peter
We are currently doing volumes of fifty shirts per day, 7 days a week on average, much higher during music festivals and christmas, one off’s , short runs for work wear, and like your self what we are using at present , transfers and also vinyl cut makes it difficult to justify spend nearly 7k to save on a bit of weeding, the other issue which concerns me, is how slow the new printer is reported to be. I think I will be holding off for a while.
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Graham, speed is an issue. We also travel to shows on behalf of our clients and supply branded goods on site for delegates, consumers etc. The DTG machines we looked at did not lend themselves to being moved around in an exhibition trailer from point to point. ALL the companies we talked to indicated they could do this, but when pressed, they would not categorically promise it could be done.
Our daily rate is lower than yours but we could be producing large numbers over the course of a weekend. Staff to weed cost a great deal less than potential costs and headaches caused by the DTG option.
I really would like to have one but cannot justify the expense. I would rather replace the JV3 at this time.Peter
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I did some number crunching and I can’t make any garment printing an attractive idea.
I have the heat press, I have the plotter and material.
The unit price of the shirts is fine, it’s the postage that gets me. Unless it is a reasonable order but usually it’s a one off job.
I don’t carry huge amounts of stock of heat transfer. I ordered about 5m of a few colours when I had a job on, but again with the postage it kills the profit.
By the time I’ve accounted for printing/cutting weeding, applying, materials, postage I just can’t make the margin to make it worth the effort.
Advice much welcome though, as it seems a shame to have the gear just sat here.
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quote David Hammond:I did some number crunching and I can’t make any garment printing an attractive idea.
I have the heat press, I have the plotter and material.
The unit price of the shirts is fine, it’s the postage that gets me. Unless it is a reasonable order but usually it’s a one off job.
I don’t carry huge amounts of stock of heat transfer. I ordered about 5m of a few colours when I had a job on, but again with the postage it kills the profit.
By the time I’ve accounted for printing/cutting weeding, applying, materials, postage I just can’t make the margin to make it worth the effort.
Advice much welcome though, as it seems a shame to have the gear just sat here.
Unless you are getting volume discounts on garments and discounts on vinyl, it starts getting silly cost wise per unit, postage is a big cost, but again we pre print all our postal address stickers and again this can attract discounts for bulk, plus saving time at the Post office , as we do about two full bags per day, it can be a pain to stand in line. The cost savings that can be made by using suppliers who offfer discounts can soon mount up to big savings and as they are all trying to stay in business, it might be worth talking to them to try to do a better deal with them rather than accepting the list prices, you may have to buy a few more shirts but it can be worth while, if garments is not your main focus this might prove difficult, as the whole process is time consuming if your are not geared up with templates or pre cut vinyl, ready for the heat press when the orders flood in, I would try and up sell your sign clients on work wear that way you already have your art work go to go and this would cut down on the postage issue and cost. regards Graham
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quote David Hammond:I did some number crunching and I can’t make any garment printing an attractive idea.
I have the heat press, I have the plotter and material.
The unit price of the shirts is fine, it’s the postage that gets me. Unless it is a reasonable order but usually it’s a one off job.
I don’t carry huge amounts of stock of heat transfer. I ordered about 5m of a few colours when I had a job on, but again with the postage it kills the profit.
By the time I’ve accounted for printing/cutting weeding, applying, materials, postage I just can’t make the margin to make it worth the effort.
Advice much welcome though, as it seems a shame to have the gear just sat here.
The customer should be paying for the postage not your profit margin?
Black t-shirt with some single colour text printed one side should be £2.50 to £3, sell for £10-12 then customer pays postage of £2ish
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I’ve met with a few suppliers of garments.
I can get them for good prices but as soon as the £6.00 delivery to me is added a £2.00 shirt becomes £8.00. If they want a different colour and that needs ordering in, that’s another couple of quid and £10.00 delivery.
So it’s cost £16.00 before I’ve even made a thing.
I wish I was doing the work so I could get some shirts in stock, but I don’t.
I suppose if I want to use it I will have to take the plunge and maybe order small quantities of different sizes and styles and have a few selections of colours in stock and only offer those.
The machinery isn’t worth selling on, so I have kept hold of it. I usually suggest customers supply their own garments with the likes of Primark and Matalan offering cheap shirts.
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A small investment of £100 and you could be sitting with approx 50 t-shirts. Main 3 colours are black, white & pink & just order in 3 of each size s,m,l,xl,xxl, job done your now a t-shirt printer 😉 Black is your bread and butter colour though, I always sit with at least a dozen of each size. It’s easy just ask John Wilson.
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quote David Hammond:I’ve met with a few suppliers of garments.
I can get them for good prices but as soon as the £6.00 delivery to me is added a £2.00 shirt becomes £8.00. If they want a different colour and that needs ordering in, that’s another couple of quid and £10.00 delivery.
So it’s cost £16.00 before I’ve even made a thing.
I wish I was doing the work so I could get some shirts in stock, but I don’t.
I suppose if I want to use it I will have to take the plunge and maybe order small quantities of different sizes and styles and have a few selections of colours in stock and only offer those.
The machinery isn’t worth selling on, so I have kept hold of it. I usually suggest customers supply their own garments with the likes of Primark and Matalan offering cheap shirts.
T shirt suppliers i deal with will do free shipping if you spend £150
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I can get the free shipping if I spend big.
My problems are:
Storage: I am tight on space as it is… however I could find more space.
Sales: I haven’t sold many in 6months – is it because I don’t push the sales? Or because of lack of demand locally?
I am looking into offering ‘package deals’ to tradesmen and this might become another aspect of it?
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David,
You seem to be talking yourself out of garment supply.
The initial cost for stock really is minimal. As has been said, 2 – 3 hundred pound investment would give you a nice inventory of shirts / hoodies etc. Storage is really not that bad unless you are working in your box room at home. Even then, they don’t take up that space.
Anyone who gets a van liveried with us gets a free t shirt with sharp pricing for further orders.It works
Peter
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When I get paid for some work I will be looking into this.
I have spoken with my local supplier (who wont let me collect), but have agreed to post them to me, and only charge postage on small orders. So their £6.00 delivery could now be more like £1.50
What colours do you stock for the lettering?
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Black white and blue shirts for us.
Black, white, red, pink and blue material.
We have built up a good stock of flex over the years so can cover most requirements. We have also built up a stock of shirts and colours also.It took a while but it is now a case of replenishment as opposed to start up.
Peter
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Cheers Peter.
I will certainly be looking into this.
I have considered leaving a sample of business card/letter head in some vans I have done. But will certainly give this a go.
Sorry for invading the thread too.
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OK so I’ve spent a bit of time looking at this.
I can see it been viable by taking the plunge, buying the stock in.
My investment will be around £100. Which equates to approx 10 shirt sales to make that back (in simple terms that is).
Concern 1 – I had a customer bring a shirt back today, where the printed image has come off. Supposedly only after 1 cold wash. I have offered to replace the print. But I don’t think the heat transfer suites the cotton shirt?
I’m not sure of the make of the printing transfer material but the colours are all doro tape pro flex.
2) What material would you recommend?
3) How long can you realistically expect it to last? -
Hi,
For small orders I just pop into town and pick them up normally the most I pay is £3.00 but can get them for 2 for £3.00 in some shops. No stock required.
Hen night T Shirts, I offer a service for the customer to supply me the shirts that way the girls can pick the style the like. Works well.
Ian
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i got fed up by not having the right stock so stopped keeping shirts. plus could not seam to make anything on the stock.
now i tell the customer to go buy the colour size style they want and pay as much as they want (normally mataland) and i will letter them.
works for me as they are only really fill in jobs. did 30 the other day 20 to do tomorrow. then probably not do any more for a couple of weeks.
i will only use the top end flex cut materials saves hassle. -
Even though we screen print and embroider as well as heatpress, we keep very little stock. But we do order 2-3 times a week, so its easy just to add on a few items for heatpressing. Most of the time as we order over the required amount we get free postage from the suppliers.
Personally I don`t see why you should have to keep stock, as there are too many colours, sizes or styles available. Do you keep 5 sheets of every colour in diabond?
If a customer just wants 1 item, and they require it before I will be ordering my stock, I just tell them you`ll have to add on the £8 or what ever the carrage charge is or ask them to get their own garment from Mataland etc. If they are having 10 items, the carrage cost is only 80p each, not a great deal. So most go with that option. Most also say, they can`t be bothered with going to fetch their own. If they can`t be bothered neither could I.
Not charging the carrage cost means you`ll be doing at least 2 shirts for free…. its a business we nee to make profit or go under.
The down side to the customer getting their own, even though we tell them to get a simple t shirt, they come back with garments that are toally unsuitable for heatpressing.
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Hi,
I just keep a number of sample t Shirts so the customer can see the different vinyl effects. The hen Shirts are 99% black with day glow pink Siser flex.
Ian
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