Another new ink for Grenadier printers

[Stephen Murray1]

Hi Russell, I’d be keen to find out how it went with the new inks.
We’ve just tried the Fujifilm Sericol color +, after speaking to them at S&D UK and been very disapointed. A noticible drop in quality. Phoned up to complain, however no real solution as yet.

[Russell Huffer]

As per the first post we have now been running Activasol Premium for a couple of weeks, first impressions are very good, colours are more vibrant than before but needed reprofiling to get everything running right.

Basically the inks seem to perform much the same as Activasol but they are easier on the printer, my black head was deflecting quite a bit but over the last 2 weeks this has all but gone.

I also had a problem with Health & Safety inspector while running Activasol however as the Premium is a milder solvent they are happier to let me run it in the same room.

I would say overall the change is worth doing, I have also found that the inks are not as fussy as Activasol ie i had a lot of samples that Activasol would not print on it would tend to pool, however all of the samples i have retried with Premium have printed OK.

Better health and better prints are the plus points however the downside is that B&P are the only supplier of these inks and altough they claim to have reinvented themselves the service still remains very low standared with many phone calls required for anything.

Regards

Russell.

[Robert Lambie]

quote :

however the downside is that B&P are the only supplier of these inks and altough they claim to have reinvented themselves the service still remains very low standared with many phone calls required for anything.

Russell if you really aren’t happy with the service from B&P another option is the following…

http://www.rpsd.co.uk/Print-Supplies/Printing-Inks.html

this new ink B&P are doing is actually sold in Nazdar cartridges by RPSD. Same ink, just re-branded as a new Activasol.

i cant comment on price or service but maybe worth inquiring whilst you have ink in stock.

[Russell Huffer]

Thanks Rob I was aware thate Shauna of RSPD was talking to Nazdar and she also offered to help me out with some profiles if B&P failed, however at that time the ink was not availible from RSPD good news if it now is as i have an account with RSPD and try to buy most of my materials from them as Shauna was one of the best people from B&P and supplies most of the original B&P materials.

Regards

Russell.

[Frank Horner]

Russell,

I could be wrong, but didn’t you change to colorific, and if so how does the new Activasol compare? I had a call from B & P last week offering me a cracking deal to change, this included a service, new dampers and caps and pipes. I am tempted but I have very little faith in B & P, and would prefer some independant feedback before commiting. Have you had any issues with profiling with the new ink?

regards
Frank

[Russell Huffer]

Hi Frank,

Yes i was changing to Colorific i was running a mix of Activasol & Colorific however while i was in the process of changing over and trying to establish where they the same inks i had a visit from Health & Safety who read all the data sheets i had spread over the workbench and suggested that i move the printer to its own room, I could not really afford to do this so looked for a more frendly ink Activasol Premium is a mild solvent more like Roland ink and whilst you still should vent the area well Health & Safety will accept the printer in the same room as me, as it is right over the other side and i have fited extraction on it.

The inks themselves are very good i used to find Activasol fussy and unable to print on some media however Premium has printed well on to all medias even the ones i still had that Activasol would pool on.

You must have it profiled B&P will tell you it does not need to be but i had a week of running mine before the profile man came in and the colours where to vibrant i would compere it to plasma screen and lcd screen put them side by side and most people will like the lcd picture as it is more vibrant colours however the plasma is closer to real life colours.

The other problem was drying it was slow this turned out to be over inking and the new profiles the ink limits are down from 325 to 210. now it has been profiled the colours are spot on and the ink drys similar to activasol.

Overall i think this is a better ink than Activasol like B&P said to me Activasol is old technology and Premium a more evolved product, it is also a lot friendlier on the printer nearly all my deflection has gone over the last couple of weeks.

Regards

Russell.

[George Zerbino]

Russell,

Who has done the profiling for you, I’ve changed 3 weeks ago to the new inks and have the same problem, colours are way too different.
I don’t know where to get the profiles from.

Cheers,

George Zerbino

[Russell Huffer]

George,

I had my profiles done by a guy called Robert Boddington

http://www.pdis-graphics.co.uk

Very good guy been doing profiles for a long time and has all the right kit to back up his experiance.

Regards

Russell.

[Robert Lambie]

no disrespect guys, but is it really worth switching to an ink that might save you some money now, "because you dont know just how long the supplier will maintain the current price" only have all the hassles of re-profiling, trying to colour match existing customers prints etc etc

hope you get it all sorted anyway… nothing worse when you have work coming in and you cant get it back out the door.

edit;-
sorry Russell, i never saw your other replies above. i understand why you choose to switch. there are still alternatives that dont need profiling.

[Russell Huffer]

Rob,

Before doing the switch i negotiated a price with B&P and got them to put that in writing as i was very concious of buying an ink which B&P had a monopoly on, I did tell you the cost in a pm so you know i am paying what i was paying for colorific, however since then you have offered me a better price on Colorific so i am not using a cheaper ink. My fear with B&P is not them putting up cost it is them going bust again as they have not matured like they belive they have.

Also plan B was RSPD said they could probably get something direct from NAzdar and failing that plan C was back to Colorific.

Bottom line for me is i have a safer ink that is much the same cost and i also get savings on ammount of ink used ie MD5 total ink limit down to 210 from 325 and extended head life. Also get H&S off my case and because the profiles where done on my printer they are exactly correct.

I hope i have made the right change for the right reasons however as with everything in life only time will tel.

Regards

Russell.

[George Zerbino]

Russell,

How are you getting on with the new inks?

I’m experiencing major problems, to the point that the grenadier nearly got wheeled out in the car park and driven over with my 4×4 (and I am being serious!).

I’ve tried contacting B&P, but not had a reply as yet.

At the moment I have problems with 5 out of the 6 colours, and have changed 26 dampers and 5 manifolds this week alone, but to no avail.

Only thing I haven’t tried is changing back to the old activasol to see if that will clear the problems.

Sorry for the rant, needed to get it off my chest (along with all the splatters of ink).

Cheers,

George

[Russell Huffer]

Goerge,

Really sorry to hear you are having problems, i had no dampers or manifolds changed and have the oppersite to you my printer is running much cleaner hardly any defelction.

Are you sure the problem is the inks have you had the printer profiled as this made alot of deifference to mine.

Regards

Russell.

[George Zerbino]

Hi Russell,

I cannot figure out what else it could be, I don’t have any new profiles as yet as b&p haven’t sent me any, but the profiles don’t affect the machine’s test print.

My only options at the moment are to revert back to the old inks or buy a new machine, or wait for b&p to get back in touch.

Cheers,

George

[Robert Lambie]

Side stepping the whole Ink debate here…

B&P’s first big downfall for me personally, was their support.
It seemed the company in the last 24 months gunned hard for sales at any cost with almost zero after sales support, but where happy enough to charge heavily for it! (again I speak from experience on that)
Judging by the feed back I received from UKSG members, I was just one of many to never have a returned call after dozens of phone calls and messages left. for months on end, you no longer even reached a member of support answering the phone, only an answering machine. One time they called back around 8 days later mentioning the message I had left… I had already had a technician from another firm in, had parts shipped and installed by the time the call came back. I am not sure about anyone else here but our business can’t operate with a service like that, especially when they are charging over £2000 per year for the service.

I could go on… but I am not here to keep kicking a company when it’s down. But what I will say is since the so called NEW B&P has came about, from what I can see and have heard, they are playing exactly the same game as before.

I am glad you are more than happy with you ink change and all is running better. But I can’t help but thing you might be one of the lucky ones mate. Just my personal opinion of course…

George, real sorry to hear your situation mate… who is paying for all these manifolds and dampers?
Did B&P promise to supply you with profiles or at least a contact to have profiling done once you switched to their ink?

[George Zerbino]

Hi Rob,

Manifold & dampers paid for by mastercard.
I was promised profiles, but they still haven’t materialised. Funnily enough I had an email this morning from a customer who picked up his vehicle last night, and the only comments was "bit of a yellowish tinge to the logo but the rest of van looks good". That’s now the turning point for me!

I don’t like to knock any company, but on this occasion I do feel severely let down, unanswered emails, un-returned calls, etc.

Last night I had to change the cyan manifold, and this morning it was the turn of the black one. Does anyone have a sledgehammer I can borrow for a short while?

Cheers,

George

[Kevin Flowers]

George.
why do you find that you have to keep changing the manifold?

Kev

[George Zerbino]

Hi Kev,

Good question. When b&p came round to install the new inks, they changed one of the dampers as that’s all they had with them, and the missing dampers would be posted to me.

After 3 weeks, I got fed up with waiting for the bits to arrive or a reply to my emails, and seen that problems were starting to appear (some of the colours weren’t printing properly), I thought I might as well buy some new dampers myself.

The new dampers were the larger size ones, as recommended by the b&p engineer, but upon installing them a couple of the manifold pipes broke off (the new damper puts some strain on the manifold because the ink lines now bend a little more, or maybe the manifolds being old have become brittle).

I’ve now changed over to the original smaller dampers, but the manifold might have been compromised by changing dampers in the first place.

I’m not blaming b&p for the manifolds breaking, but if the machine had been sorted properly in the first place and/or replies to my messages about the deterioration of the print quality, I would have not been forced to repair this myself.

Hope it makes sense

George

[George Zerbino]

Just a quick note, sorry to have hijacked this thread, it wasn’t my intention to do so.

George

[George Zerbino]

Update on the status of my Grenadier, I am now back onto the Colorific Elite inks, after a visit from an independent engineer which was arranged by Dave Foster of Selectech.

It took a good few hours to sort out all the problems, and even more dampers & manifolds, but in the end it was worth it.

So a big personal "thank you for getting me out of the proverbial" goes to Dave of Selectech and Colorific. And obviously thank you to Kevin the engineer for a professional service, well appreciated.
I’m back in production now!

Regards,
George

[Russell Huffer]

It would be nice to get some input from any one else who has gone down the Activasol Premium route as this thread shows one person who had nothing but trouble and reverted back and myself who had no hassle and love the colour range of the new inks and found my printer performed better on them.

Regards

Russell.

[Phil Veitch]

We have just been contacted by b+p about these inks, free full service -heads, change all our ink in what we have in stock, new bulk cartridges, re profiling and at a good price for the ink..

Is it worth doing?? The machine is 2yrs and never had a real proper service??

Cheers Phil

[Russell Huffer]

Million dollar question Phil, no it is not worth doing if you do it just to get a service, as you can see by this thread 1 printer changed no problem and another changed and then changed back so odds are 50:50

I had to change inks because I had H&S on my case, i looked at the bio inks but decided upon Activasol Premium because i had been told that the bio inks still have a strong smell, harmless but strong, i do not know this to be the case for sure but was told the AP is low odour and a lot safer than Activasol.

The change has sorted things out for me with regards to H&S but then so would the bio inks, I would have kept using Activasol had it not been for the dangers of breathing to much of it but again i do not know if Bio may have made a better choice all i can say is that deflection has all but disapeared since using the AP ink.

Regards

Russell.

[George Zerbino]

Phil,

In contrast to Russell, I’ve noticed more problems appeared after changing to the activasol premium inks.

B&P did come to do a service to the machine and change over the inks, but the dampers were never changed (apart from one) and never sent to me, and they took 10 unopened Colorific Elite bottles, but I only ever received 8 new Premium inks, so not a fair swapout (Russel if you want them I still have them here).

I never did get the profiles, which again caused me problems as you can imagine.

In the end I had to get an independent engineer to sort out all the problems and change back over to the Colorific Elite inks from Selectech.
Since then everything is working again, what a relief!

Regards,

George

[Phil Veitch]

Thanks guys, we are using activasol, and have just moved into a new office and the smell is harsh without extraction..seems a lot of trouble if it wont work..

[Robert Lambie]

i think you will find that regardless to what ink you use H&S will still specify two air vents. one pulling fresh air into the room, then another sucking the solvent air out of the room.

I don’t think there is a solvent ink on the market that’s not harmful to some extent.
I guess this is were these new HP latex water based inks will come into play over the next few years… one to watch i think.

[George Zerbino]

I’m with you Rob on that train of thought, how can an "eco" solvent actually be "eco"? It’s still a solvent of some kind, isn’t it?

[Philip Jeneway]

Hi has anyone more info on Activasol Premium it’s been several months since this subject was posted. I’m thinking of changing over but wonder if anyone had had any problem with the ink or profiles.

[Robert Lambie]

ive not heard anyone sing its praises yet… other than i think russell, but i "think" his was profiled for him? sorry if i got that wrong…
i have heard various folk with profile issues and the like though…
my understanding was if you switched profiles would be provided or machine profiled to suit, this hasnt been the case and i think there are a number of folk left scratching their head after buying into it.

i too would be greatful for anymore feedback on this ink.

my annoyance, and im not going to start naming suppliers… but this ink is being pushed heavily as Activasol for the uniform range of printers. IT IS NOT the same Ink… just the same name. The activasol we all used over the years is now sold under the brand Colorific and can be bought through various suppliers. Selectech, Printmax etc etc

http://www.colorificink.com/index.html

just my views/opinion of course…

.

[Lorraine Clinch]

Does anyone have any experience with the B & P ‘Extreme Ultra Eco’ inks?
They are saying they are as good as Roland inks.
Anyone used them?

Lorraine

[Luke s Bremner]

I contacted B&P about bulk inks that Im using right now lyson 2000, I was told that they could sell me these inks for a really good price, but the next time I contacted them about it, they were cheaper again I thought something might be wrong but though Ill try them out. They sent me out these Extreme Ultra inks telling me they were lyson 2000. I phoned them up as soon as they came in to tell them they sent the wrong inks to be told they were the correct inks but they were older so had different label on them.
I had to stop using my printer and go out to get another ink so I could keep printing so I ended up with 2 different inks running to keep it going. They even sent out a tech to look at the printer and was baffled with the inks and could not work out what was going on so he said then went to his car to make a phone call.

I would not deal with B&P they will stop you from being able to run your machine and after they wreck your print heads they wont want any thing to do with it.

All my calls to B&P were no replied to and the relevant people were not in the office when I called every time.

I have since been sent a letter of demand for the bill to be paid a second time from them. So nothing has changed at B&P they should be out of business again very soon.

[Sean.Cully]

I cannot agree more with Lukes comments on B&P Graphics.
I owe B&P money but until they sort all the materials and parts they have sent out which were either wrongly sent or told that they would take them back.
I have given in.
I have rang since November trying to sort things out and am sick of being promised that "someone will ring you back"
I am so sick of being promised "someone will ring you back"!!!!!

On a lighter note I swapped over to lyson 2100 inks on our valuejet and they are better than OE

SC