Advice needed on moving premises

[Peter Dee]

Personally I wouldn’t rely on whatever passing trade might come from your position, unless you are main road sited and offering walk in consumer goods such as t-shirts etc.
If the premises are that good and business can be developed from exterior sources to make it pay then fine.
Any passing trade would be a bonus.

[Mo Gillis-Coates]

Thanks Peter, yes it is on a main road and in a highly used public area, we will be offering direct tshirt printing and off the shelf stuff such as safety signs also we developing drive in vehicle graphics on the spot (fortunately there is a cafe opposite which customers can sit in)

I was wondering whether I would pick up much trade from the estate…

[Martin Pearson]

Mo, same as passing trade, I wouldn’t expect to get any work from the estate and certainly wouldn’t build it in to any of my plans when working out costs. £400 extra profit a month is a lot of extra work.

A lot depends on what sort of other businesses are on the estate and how loyal they are to their current signmaker. If the estate is full with the sort of business that don’t have a requirement for signs then you are never going to sell alot no matter what you do.
OK I am no sales man but when I had a unit on a busy industrial estate it was quite a long time before I got any work from the other businesses on the estate despite me making sure I visited them all and always said hello on passing.

Question is how long can you carry on where you are if the business continues to grow at your projected rate and how likely is the unit you are looking at going to stay available for a while??

Not sure I like the idea of Drive in vehicle graphics but then maybe I’m to stuck in my ways now.

[Earl Smith]

Im in the t-shirt and embroidery business, not sign work at all. In the t-shirt trade you will need to sell a minimum of 1200 pounds extra just to cover the extra expense of 400. That is a hell of a lot of t-shirts. You will build up to that, and more, but it will take about a year to do it.
Im cautious too , the extra 400 might be better spent on fliers and advertising to bring the customer to your existing premises. At least you know you can cover your costs there.
My 2 cents worth , good luck .
Earl.

[Mo Gillis-Coates]

Blimey the negativity lol…. well with my t shirt markup I would only have to sell less than 50 to make that kind of money up, so probably about half of what you are suggesting there.. but that’s just a side line for me, and I have a niche market for my t shirts…

I am so out of the way from the public where I am situated that it’s not even funny nor is it an option to bring people here, it’s not that kind of workshop. Most of my trade is B2B anyway so an industrial estate would be much better.

I’m negotiating with the hand car wash next door but one to do a deal for customers who want to take advantage of drive in graphics, basically they drop their car at the car wash while they sit in my reception area with me or a designer we lay the graphics out for them once all is ok, they toddle across the road to the cafe, have a sandwich etc and we print, cut and apply the graphics for them while they wait, they pay their money, pick their vehicle up and ta ta..

I think I’m going to get it going anyway, but any more positive comments would be appreciated….. I hear what you guys are saying above and I appreciate your opinions…. but surely it’s not all doom and gloom?

I would really appreciate some comments from some of you who have made a n impact with their sign companies where they are on an industrial estate. Present company included

[Warren Beard]

what about letting your prints dry 😕 that would need to be a big sandwich 😮 🙄

[Martin Pearson]

Mo, it’s not negativity, you asked if you would pick up much work from the industrial estate and in my own experience yes i picked up some work but it took quite a while and I never really did that much work for the other businesses on the estate.
It wasn’t that big an estate but most of the businesses were already established and didn’t really have any need for extra signs. I did do most of the work when new companies moved on to the estate and did the odd van for people when they increased the number of vans they had or replaced a van but it wasn’t brilliant and certainly didn’t give me any regular income.

Just about everything I did was B2B, I didn’t do a lot of the stuff you do so don’t have any real experience with dealing with the general public or walk in customers. If nothing else the move will make you more high profile and if lots of people get use to seeing your name that always helps when they need a service you provide, that should lead to increased trade.

Still don’t like the idea of drive in livery though lol, I just think it devalues vehicle graphics in general and peoples perception of what they are getting for their money.

[Jon Marshall]

I would never contemplate any sort of ‘while you wait’ graphics service, especially with anything printed. Plus, sitting down with someone to design something can easily drag on when you get someone fussy.

[Chris Wool]

i think that what goes on around your premises makes a difference.

so with a cafe a car wash and loads of other business near should be good.

drive through graphics don’t think so, you are devaluing your work to much.

[Mo Gillis-Coates]

Ok, drive in graphics….. firstly only coloured vinyl, no full prints, and secondly really simple business name and number… anything past that then appointments will be made to do the full job, geez I’m fast but anything other than text on 3 side in one colour would be pushing it even for me…..

SPRATS AND MACKERELS GUYS! certainly not devaluing my business here, but I know how to get customers through the door and then I use up sell techniques.

Thanks for your input tho guys much appreciated… I think it could work!

[David McDonald]

hi Mate

£400 extra outgoings a month? Does this include everything – higher rates, extra heating/lights etc. etc. etc.

One extra mid-sized van job a month will pay for that, and potentially the extra space makes you more productive and efficient if things are tightly packed in at your current place. For example having the space to store vehicles inside whilst they wait to be worked on has been a massive help for us over the last few cold weeks – they can defrost and dry etc.

Based on the very very high level of information you have mentioned I’d go for it.

Cheers
Macky

[Chris Wool]

I can just see it now

£50 van graphics while you wait

😉

[Lorraine Clinch]

I would go for it, if I were in your situation. It’s what most of us are looking for, the perfect set-up!

Lorraine.

[Mo Gillis-Coates]

quote Chris Wool:

I can just see it now

£50 van graphics while you wait

😉

Close Chris, but not quite that cheap….. but basically that gets them in and then we can work on a more "pro" job once we identify their needs….. If it’s just name and number they want they can have it done there and then in one colour (if we have time)…..

The beauty of this is, we have their vehicle, when they come to collect it they pay the invoice…. bang money up front. There are quite a few local trades guys that don’t have time to leave their van somewhere for a day or have it off the road and they don’t want a massive job done, I sell a lot of basic mags for this reason.

But we do get a chance to ease them into a bigger job later once we get into the geting yourself noticed thing etc etc..

Everyone will still get a quality job done in a 5-7 year product. Then if they want something a little more complex we book an appointment date and go through the designs with them.. once we have them in the building we can get to work on them, simple really…

Thanks for the positive comments guys (and gal 🙂 ), that’s great stuff

[Bob Clarkson]

To get a van under cover easily really can assist you to make far more money, I used to write them during the evening once people had finished work. I used to try and keep it to a couple of evenings a week, but someone could drop their van off after work and collect it in the morning. I still do that on occasion in the summer on smaller vans, but to do it all year can make a greatly increased profit.

We all know an extra £4800 a year can easily be made up if we’re busy, but it’s a fair old drain on resource if we’re not. There’s going to be a lot more empty units once we get firmly into recession, I’d have a go at price negotiation, the landlord might just be happy to have the place earning a bit rather than loosing him money.

I have no unit now, as I don’t do this enough to warrant it, I just use my garage, but it works, and remember a "penny saved is a penny earned."

[Mo Gillis-Coates]

great post Bob thanks for that, we got the guy right down on price as he had taken out a 5 year lease 2 years ago and now his circumstances have changed, he’s giving it to us at what he pays for it, which to be honest is only about £200 a month more than now for quadrupole the space, it’s the rates that are the killer at £170 a month….

I could always try to negotiate him down for a few month, but we have bagged 2 months rent free, and we cant move in till march anyway but he would let us put signs up on the front in Jan, so 2 months free advertising too..

I like the idea of evening work, where I am right now I’m restricted to 8-6pm mon thru fri and from 8-1 on sats, no Sunday access… I’m behind on my orders now so those few extra hours would mean I wouldn’t busting my gut to get things complete by 5.30 every night so I have time to lock up….

It’s like anything, it’s the suck it up and do it… i have invested just about everything I have in this business, and I have 2 very very small kids.. so I’m reet scared…lol

[Daniel Evans]

It sounds as though you’ve made up your mind….?

Personally, I would do it, £400 is a lot in t-shirts, but vehicle graphics is 1 maybe 2 jobs.

Could you not just sign a six month contract and see how it goes? you say there’s units still available at your old/current location so if it doesn’t work out you can get back your old unit or the ones next to it.

I’d go with my gut instinct.

[Peter Normington]

Mo have you enquired about small business rates,?
they can be highly subsidised, not sure on the figures as it was a while ago I looked into it.

I friend of mine pays nothing for a 1000sq ft unit

Peter

[Bob Clarkson]

In a good economy, a lease is potentially a very good thing, it allows you to build up a stable business in a secure location. You’ll be protected from unreasonable rent increase, and the risk of building a good business, that could in theory be carried on in that building even if you’ve left it.

The downside is the fact it can strangle you if things are not going so well, obviously you don’t need me to reiterate the obvious, but I’ve seen a few companies fail, and still be tied into an expensive outgoing.

The fact you’ve already firmly negotiated, and if you can also do it it 6mth bite size lease periods is all you can do. You’ve got the best start.

If you’ve been trading a year, and things are going stable to increase, you could consider a purchase. In about 2yrs we will pretty much bottom out on house prices, when this happens unit/workshop prices will go through the floor. You’ll be 3yrs in to your new business and have a very clear picture of what happening. You may well have just got this spot on.

[Martin Pearson]

Like Peter has said I would look into Small Business rates, what was the guy in the unit doing??? It might well be that you could apply for a change of use on the rates and reduce them that way.

The idea of evening work might not seem like a bad thing but don’t forget you have a family in your haste to make sure they have a secure future.

Why are you restricted where you are now??

[Bob Clarkson]

I should have mentioned the family bit, and it’s a very good point Martin.

I’ve worked some ridiculous hours, and done things that have taken all my time and effort to achieve things, that we’re not necessarily the most important things in life in general.

Responsibilities, goals and the future tend to take up massive amounts of lifetime. Balance is the answer, but something I’ve never really been able to do.

As they say, "life is what happens when you’re waiting for better things"

[Chris Sharps]

Hi Mo

As already mentioned it is worth looking into the Small Business Rate Relief situation (and for anyone else who hasn’t done so).

Until this year I have been in receipt of 50% relief but in this year’s budget it was increased temporarily to 100% until next September. This has happened despite a change in government.

SBRR is available to eligible businesses whose rateable value is less than £18,000 (£25,500 in Greater London)

There are conditions but it is worth checking with your local authority to see if you qualify if you havn’t done so already.

Cheers

Chris

Sorry should have said the 100% relief is available on properties with a rateable value of up to £6,000. Between £6,000 and £12,000 a tapered relief applies and above £12,000 businesses do not get a discount but are entitled to have their bill calculated using the small business rate multiplier.

Apologies for any confusion!

[Simon.James]

hi Lorraine

Long time no speak, I took a year out of printing but now i am planning to open a shop on a high street in cardiff very shortly and wondered do you still have the 2 engravers i sold you, if so do you use them?

if not are you interested in selling them back to me.

Kind Regards

Simon