a good solvent printable vinyl with a 3m type of adhesive?

[Shane Drew]

quote davebrittain:

does any one know where to get a good solvent printable vinyl with a 3m type of addesive backing

I am told the new 3951 cast materail has a similar adhesive to the 3M mate, Otherwise 3M control tac is your only other option.

cheers

[davebrittain]

thanks where can i get it from

[Shane Drew]

It is an Oracal product so I’d assume Europoint I guess. Not being from the UK, I’d click the link on the main page and see how you go mate.

Cheers
Shane

[Cammy – Europoint Display]

HI Guys,

As you ask, all Orajet Vinyl 3164/3651/3551 and 3951 has grey re-positionable adhesive, it makes for easier working with large colour graphics, its a solvent adhesive.

All the best

[L J.]

cammy, does this mean it’s best for large printed vinyl on vehicles?

quote :

As you ask, all Orajet Vinyl 3164/3651/3551 and 3951 has grey re-positionable adhesive, it makes for easier working with large colour graphics, its a solvent adhesive.

Long John

[Shane Drew]

quote lj1600:

cammy, does this mean it’s best for large printed vinyl on vehicles?

quote :

As you ask, all Orajet Vinyl 3164/3651/3551 and 3951 has grey re-positionable adhesive, it makes for easier working with large colour graphics, its a solvent adhesive.

Long John

LJ, each code has it particular stengths.

3164 is probably best suited for temporary work
3651 imo is more suited for flat panel work only
3551 is good for vehicles that have mostly flat panels as it is not ideal on a complex curve, but good for most vans or flat sided trucks. I use this one for nearly everything.
3951 is a cast and ideal on anything but you’ll pay for it. It is Oracals new vehicle wrap material, and a bit dear imo. Here in OZ it is dearer than the 3M control tac.

3751 is a poly but very good on most vans or vehicles that have medium style curves, but not too radical with the complex curves.

The repositionable thing is something I’d probably take with a grain of salt. Certainly the 3951 is competing with the 3M control tac material, but I have not used it yet, so I can not comment from experience.

The 3751 is not an aggressive glue, and can be lifted of to remove creases etc reasonably easy. As it cures tho it is a very strong application. The 3551 is much the same, but if you apply it dry, I’d argue that it is not so much repositionable, as not intitially aggressive.

Hope that helps. Sorry to steel your question Cammy.

[L J.]

dsi.
Thanks for the info, it helps a lot. I have priced these today with my regular supplier but i am waiting for the new price list from Europoint before i make my mind up.
The reason i am interested in this “grey glue” idea is because i am buying a new van soon & i need to do a good job of the printed panels. I would normally put this on with water, but seeing Rob’s demo i am going to give it a go “Dry”.
Thanks again.
L J

[davebrittain]

http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebs … yn?iiiiii6
http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebs … KxUeIIIIg-
heres too lings about vinyl from the 3m suppliers tec guy
i will have a sample to test monday they do cast and calander
he says some times the glue may go chewingumie with solvent print (at least thats what i think he was saying)
but ille try printing it and see how it comes out
i was after a quite thick vinyl but this isnt the supplier said some american supplier does it but didnt know who
lets hope some one at sign uk 2005 got some on show

[davebrittain]

http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebs … KxUeIIIIg-

[davebrittain]

http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebs … TXBNqqqqP-

try these other one dont work

[L J.]

Dave, these links don’t seem to work!!!!!
Just out of interest why do you want a thick vinyl?
I was always taught “The better quality the vinyl the thinner it is”

I always use Graphityp cast vinyl for printing, cannot fault it except this goes all chewinggummy when you try to take off the backing paper.
L J

[Shane Drew]

quote davebrittain:

he says some times the glue may go chewingumie with solvent print (at least thats what i think he was saying)
but ille try printing it and see how it comes out
i was after a quite thick vinyl but this isnt the supplier said some american supplier does it but didnt know who

Dave, I am wondering why you want a thicker vinyl. The thinner the better when it comes to vehicle applications I my mind.

The chewing gum effect is true on all materials, but mostly when you lay too much ink down on the print. Typically, if you are running the wrong profile. I usually premask my prints before laying as it gives the tape a bit of ‘body’.

3M’s Control tac 180 is excellent, from experience.

As usual, 3M is no different tha Oracal or others when it comes to drying. Remember to hang the print for 24 hours before trimming or laying.

LJ I hear that graphytip is good stuff too. Don’t use it yet, but was contacted by a supplier yesterday that wants to send me a sample to try on my Teckinks

[davebrittain]

i need it thick for mx bikes give me your email and ille forward you the 3m link

[Shane Drew]

quote davebrittain:

i need it thick for mx bikes give me your email and ille forward you the 3m link

Dave you can not go past convex for bikes. One of my opposition here specialise in bikes, and that is all they will use. Have you tried it?

[davebrittain]

no what is it?

[Shane Drew]

comes in several styles, but it has excellent conforming ability. Was specifically made for helmets, bike tanks and thinks like that. Not cheap (here at least) but absolutely brilliant for that style of work. Has matching laminates too.

I buy it thru Oracal here, so your suppliers over there may stock it too. Give it a go, I think it is what you are looking for, It has standard hadhesives right up to VHB adhesive.

cheers

[davebrittain]

so do i ask for convex vinyl?
thanks for the help

[Shane Drew]

convex diamond, convex supreme & convex regular are the 3 styles mate.

cheers

[L J.]

dsi i have uploaded this once but it has dissapeared?? so i will try again, here goes

quote :

I usually premask my prints before laying as it gives the tape a bit of ‘body’.

what does this mean………….. I clear laquer mine 2 coats before applying.

[Gordon Forbes]

For MX you need Convex Hi Bond 6mil and Laminate with Convex 8mil clear laminate panels need to be new or in as new condition.
They have a super thick laminate for front fenders and front Number etc but you have to order from USA.

I recently did an MX bike in Convex it lasted 3 races (10 min + 1 lapand the lad won all 3 races leading after about2 to 3 laps so it was under even less pressure) It Broke off lifted chipped and the conditions were not too bad not a lot of stones but it was very cold I was not impressed at all.

I have re-done the bike this time being maticulous in application and using a double layer of laminate to see if this helps

I sent an email to Convex (Graphic Marking Systems graphicms.com) and got no reply, phoned them and spoke to one of the guys there promised to email me some answers no reply as yet and that was 3-4 weeks ago.
You can buy it from Ireland but the shipping costs you an arm and a leg I was charged £80 for a roll of white comes in sprocketed and 15″ wide and a roll of clear laminate 12″ wide. the shipping cost almost added a third to my cost of the material which I feel was a total rip off.
You can get 600 mm wide and you can get black for number panels too but not available from anyone here as far as I know.

How much do you need ?

I am waiting for a 3m product that is just thay I have sourced for low energy plastic (actually its an alternative to my first choice as my first order turned out to have a minimum order of 2 rolls and at £500 a roll I said no (surprise surprise) so am waiting for the alternative to arrive.

I fact I haven’t finished with Convex yet and am going to pursue them as to why this stuff didn’t last 3 races (printing full colour with a PC600 is not cheap to do)

And as a final mention Danger UK don’t use Convex well they didn’t on the set of graphics that I saw anyway the base product was a 3m product that I know for sure and to me it was a glue laminate of some type that of which I am fairly certain as it was a lot more tacky than Convex ( I shall find out shortly) and it couldv’e been their laminate once I source some of this I will know.

Sorry for the long winded post if you want any Convex PM me I have some I could sell you.

ps or details where to get it.

Goop

[Shane Drew]

quote lj1600:

dsi i have uploaded this once but it has dissapeared?? so i will try again, here goes

quote :

I usually premask my prints before laying as it gives the tape a bit of ‘body’.

what does this mean………….. I clear laquer mine 2 coats before applying.

LJ, all it means is that I premask it with application tape (the same as the stuff I use over my computer cut material) as I find it easier to work with if the print is stiffer. If you do have to pull it up again to remove a crease or what not, the premask prevents it from stretch, and if I am tiling a graphic, I have a better chance of marrying the joins up better.

I usually us Oracal clear app tape for this work for obvious reasons.

Goop, I am suprised to hear of your dramas. I know of one sign shop (mentioned earlier) who is making a very nice living out of supplying bike decals. My experience with manufacturers here are that they don’t usually honour warranty to material used in a competative sport. I wonder if convex has the same policy, and why they have not followed thru with your complaint.

Cheers

[L J.]

yes i see, sorry i hadn’t heard it called pre mask before.
L J

[davebrittain]

hi forbie you can email me at davebrittain@lycos.co.uk or call me on 07930 366304
i could do with a roll of convex and a roll of the lam the thicker the better
my kids are into mx and drive me nuts for graphics and stickers.
Also if youve got any mx templates for tanks an plasticks ide be interested.
cheres Dave

[Cammy – Europoint Display]

Have a customer who uses 450mic flexible soft pvc for this (self cling), he reverse prints, then laminates with a 3m adhesive. It might be worth looking at if the volume is there.

[Cammy – Europoint Display]

Hi Gordon,

I cant PM, but am in the Glasgow office tommorow would be happy to sort out a sample for you if you want to give me a call 0141 427 6111, the material is heavy weight self cling 450mic if am not around.

All the best

[Gordon Forbes]

Thanks will give you a buzz.

Goop.

[Dave Springate]

Hi, i have been doing MX graphics for nearly 4 years, started off by buying a thick clear plastic stuff (cant remember the name of it now) i used to screen print it in reverse then hand laminate a 3M type high performance adhesive to it then had to run it through a real old die cutting machine using knife type cutting blades.
Found out about Convex and havn’t used anything else since, run it through my GerberEdge 1 machine and cut it on my GSX plotter. (this was the reason i bought the Geber)
I have never had a problem with convex and the two dealers i supply are really pleased with the stuff i do. However be carefull as Danger UK are very well known and MX riders are very finicky. Ive had a couple of sets of backgrounds sent back to me because “they dont look like Danger’s ones mate” This transpired to mean that the font for the numbers wasnt quite as bold as what Danger UK use. mmm with the price of the Convex you dont want that happening very often !!!
best way forward for getting the shapes needed for the plastics is to get friendly with a local dealer and go measure the bikes it takes a while to get them done but its the best way.

[Rick Harvey]

Fordi

If we don’t receive your e-mails, how would we know? We receive a lot of Spam, so it may have been filtered out.

Secondly, If we cooresponded with you, do you know who you spoke with?

Since this is our first knowledge of your post. Who did you get the Convex™ from? Sign & Digital in Ireland? We will have more distribution soon, which will lower your shipping costs.

I don’t know what you were promised, but if you were riding in the cold, depending in the stress put on the material, it can crack.

As far as lasting through a race, we have soft laminates for the number plates so it conforms to the convex curves. We have tougher more rigid laminates for shrouds. Nothing short of polyurethane will withstand knee braces. However, you can get knee brace pads that protect your race pants and therefore help protect the graphics.

Regarding 3M… How do you know our product isn’t 3M. We certainly don’t invite the competition by announcing where we buy raw materials from, or by printing logos our liners.

There are reasons why Convex™ and compatible laminates are successful. The material sticks very well, the laminates don’t delaminate, the adhesive doesn’t delaminate, and the graphics don’t shrink as much as the heavy cling/3M combination that many screen printers use.

There are many materials, adhesives, and laminates available on the market. The trick is to find the right combination. We specialize in doing just that, including distributing it in the right format for your printers.

I wouldn’t be so quick to talk down Convex just because it hasn’t been easy to coorespond, or we haven’t told you what you want to hear.

Best regards,

admin-edit (no advertising please) :police3:

[Gordon Forbes]

Rik,
I am not talking down Convex I am only stating what happened in this particular incident. I use it on other applications and it does conform really well.
You did get my email the guy who answered the phone said so and I can’t remember his name it was so long ago now.
I feel I got to the bottom of the problem I had with it I feel it was down to a combinaton of the cold and poor cleaning before application contributed to this as I now scrupliously clean all panel with panel wipe a minimum of 3 times before applying but it still tends to lift after a time and am still eperimenting with it. ie keep away from the edges etc etc and most importantly cleaning materials for the plastics.

What do you suggest as a proper cleaning material? The last time I was at your website there was no information regarding application, (apart from saying it doesn’t crease and conforms very well true if you are careful) No info on printing profiles or cleaning substances at all. You being a supplier will know from other companies that you supply what they use to get best results. Are there any plans to share the information?

It may be an idea for you to post some help about this on your website or add it to your FAQ as I’m afraid I didn’t waken up this morning and suddenly know it all.

Seems to print from the Cadet pretty well without any changes to the rip, though I’m going to start limiting the ink a little I think

That was one of the questions asked a profile for printing.

Yes to the supplier Ireland it was. Wasn’t promised anything just told it was suitable.

Last time I spoke to Digital they had none of the alternatives available on your website I haven’t spoken to any of them for a while.

I am and do need the larger width and will be ordering once this batch I have is finished.

PM me if you have the time or wish to do so if you would like me to discuss any more with you but not publically on here.

Regarding the last remark about what I want to hear that was the crux of the matter I didn’t hear anything after being told I would.

regards

Gordon

[davebrittain]

i used the 30inch from us with the thickest laminate they do my kids mx every week their grafix have been on a month or too and still look like when i first put them on ive done the tanks forks mud guards front and side numbers all of which have stayed on
i didnt even use new plasticks i put the grafix on the old scratched ones
and they still are on
its from the same supplier your guys in ireland use

[Rick Harvey]

Sorry mate, I do not have access to PM. My email address is in my profile, please email me your comments and we’ll can go from there.

rharvey@graphicms.com