3M carbon wrap material

[Martin Pearson]

It’s not a cheap job if it is done properly, make sure you are using the correct material as there are some that are not suitable for wrap work at all. It’s almost impossible to give a price as this will vary so much on things like overheads, experience at wrapping, how desperate for the work you are etc etc.
If you don’t scare customers off with the price then I would be very surprised, I have spoke to a few people who have seen this sort of work in magazines and asked what sort of price it was and a lot of them have been shocked at the price, most have bought the odd sticker from an auction site and think vinyl is cheap. They can’t understand that you can’t use the same material for this sort of job or the difference in price between the two as to them it’s just sticky back plastic.

If you have read the threads on the forum you will also know there is a world of difference between what board members would charge for this sort of work as most can make better margins doing something else with the time it can take if you are inexperienced.

[Phil Craddock]

thanks Martin.

I have about 5 years experience doing vehicle livery but never used this stuff.

I want to quote about £250 for the Clio Bonnet as the material alone will set me back £100+ as I can’t afford to buy a roll at over £2k !!!

I also get a lot of people asking for quotes and when you tell them that it needs to be this material or that they say "well its £20 on ebay….." then I say goodbye !!!

Phil.

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[Martin Pearson]

That’s why I made the comments about a certain auction site, trying to explain the difference in materials to people can be a real pain, one way to help might be to buy a bit of cheap carbon fibre from ebay and then wrap two objects that are the same, one with the cheap stuff and one with the 3m wrap.
Showing people the difference as well as explaining it might help with your sales and the shipping note or invoice you had for the ebay stuff would show where you had bought it from.

Another thing you might want to think about before going ahead with something like this is to get yourself on a wrap course, even if you have some experience that is self taught you will learn so much from a proper course and pick up loads of tips and tricks you would never think of.

[Phil Craddock]

been trying to get on a wrap course but:

don’t have enough hours in the day as I work by myself
and
they are too expensive I think

although I totally understand the benefits of a course but done Ok up to now so far.

[Peter Normington]

the 3m material is not a vehicle wrap material, although people are using it for this, and as such I believe 3m do not guarantee it for this purpose, you also will need to use the primer that goes with it

Peter

[Phil Craddock]

hi Peter

so what does the primer do – silly question and why is it needed – just searching out my options now then !!

I have seen a few sites in the USA where they have been using it as a full on wrap material??

at this rate I will print my own stuff !!!!

[Jon Marshall]

The APA one is cheaper and fine for bonnets.

[Phil Craddock]

thanks John – do you have a link or contact for them please ??

thanks in advance 😉
Phil

[Jon Marshall]

They are in Kent; 020 8311 4400

[Phil Craddock]

thanks Jon – just found them on google and sent a message

cheers 🙂

[Phil Craddock]

had a visit from Scott @ APA today – the cf material looks awesome !!!

[OwenTaylor]

A couple of tips I have learned from using the apa cf vinyl.

1. Don’t over stretch it.
2. Don’t use too much heat (if any) during the application.
3. Apply in very smooth, long, even strokes.
4. Be in a warm environment – the vinyl goes very brittle when cold.

These are probably the usual wrapping hints but unless you are careful the weave becomes very distorted during application. The weave looks very realistic on the roll but when its all wavy it ends up looking like a dogs dinner.

Good luck.

I’ve never used the 3M film – from what I have read it is a bit thicker meaning the weave and final appearance is much more regular and realistic. Just like anything I think you get what you pay for!

[Phil Craddock]

thanks Owen for the advice – need to experiment on my own car before unleasing on a customers.

We deal with a lot of MINIs and all very curved especially the bonnet so it will be very interesting.

The rep from APA did say about not over stretching it. It is cheaper than the 3M so with it both being a very expensive material to buy in we need to get a good group of customers projects in before spending a lot of hard earned ££ to purchase the material.

Phil

[Michael Szwacki]

How much is the APA one?
I’m using the 3M stuff. I’m happy to work with it but as you know it’s not cheap. Also i’m limited to 1220 wide so lot of bonnets just can’t be done.

I’ve put some pictures in different topic. Search for black matte.

[Robert Lambie]

i think the oracal carbon fibre is about 1500-1600 wide.
i am not sure how much this would help on bonnet widths…

[Michael Szwacki]

That would help. A lot 🙂

Who selling Oracal in UK. I need to see sample.

I heard about it. Apparently is 975 cast series but i’m not sure

[Peter Normington]

the apa is very easily marked,
so you need to tell your customers the bad points,
the world and his dog now wants to do carbon wraps, in some cases they are more expensive than using the real thing as a coating, crazy isnt it?

Peter

[Michael Szwacki]

You are right Peter, the real carbon fiber it’s much more cheaper. But we, the sign makers, vehicle wrappers have no time for putting the adhesive layer then strech the stuff and finally put layer of rasin on the top, that is whole day job for one roof and i’m not talking about the mess with it. 🙂

The producers of this vinyl exactly know how much easier is to put vinyl instead of real stuff so they rising price. I’m sure the cost to produce this it’s not that expensive. I hope for few months it will be cheaper.

[Phil Craddock]

also remember that the fact that we put vinyl onto vehicles is that they can be returned to their original state at a later date if need be – something not possible with paint or changing metal to carbon panels which would be immensly expensive.

I know the APA is cheaper than 3M and I have a price book in the studio and I think is available at 1500 wide – but then that’s fine as if I need to produce ‘cut’ items in smaller parts then you just trim the material to the width/length you need to get through your plotter.

Scott from APA didn’t tell me about wear and tear though – only not to over stretch the stuff.

but it amazes me that customers seem to think that vinyl is like paint and therefore they never need to worry about wear and tear during washing.

I tell all my customers – No Car wash, No Jet wash, light sponge and leathering off only on fine cut designs – but they never listen do they!!

[OwenTaylor]

Some of my past customers wanted the carbon wrap as a kind of cosmetic sacrificial protection for their show/track cars however I always tell them the limitations of the material.

One customer had his roof wrapped then had his car booked in the next day for detailing by a mobile valet. I specifically told him to instruct the guy not to wax or buff the roof…one day later I had a call saying his roof had gone white along the edges where the buffer had caught it. Tried to save it but the only solution was to redo it.

The apa vinyl at 1500 wide is very useful – most bonnets can be covered seamless at this width.

[Phil Craddock]

thanks for the tips Owen – we need to know about washing and after care as customers always ask or we tell them how to look after their vinyl.

Need to chat to APA to see what they suggest.

cheers
Phil

[Michael Szwacki]

Is the APA one gloss or bit more like 3M?

I like 3M stuff, it’s look really nice but some people ask for gloss.

[Phil Craddock]

the APA is a matt wrap vinyl. I have a sample of both the APA and the 3M and the 3M seems to have a slightly larger weave design – both very lush though.

APA cheaper.

I have been trying to experiment wrapping BMW Mini mirror cap covers today and its a bloody nitemare as I haven’t yet achieved a decent end result – very tricky, like wrapping a football perfectly as the mirror cap covers are very round !!!

more practice required but I’ll get there !

[Michael Szwacki]

SO, does anybody know where to get the gloss one from (1500 wide)?
Have you seen Carbonskin.co.uk ? They are really good. But, I’ve found some pictures from them site on internet so i’m not sure about them at the moment. Anyway they are basing where the Hexis warehouse is so they’ve got direct access to vinyls. On several pictures is really nice gloss carbon. I wonder where they got that from?

Phil, I haven’t got APA sample but I’ve got the Hexis one and it’s bit more glossy but pattern is much smaler and simple. 3M is much better. Also Hexis one is more expensive than 3M. It’s new series HX30000 and it’s nice white pearl in it.

[Robert Lambie]

Michael, the Oracal carbon is more Gloss…
i personally prefer the sorta matt/silk finish though.
I havent used the Oracal one, just had a sample, but i plan giving it a go…
I have a white car though so i was considering using Carbon white… thing is, im not really into the whole carbon look. just wanting to have a play with it to be honest. :lol1:

[Phil Craddock]

just do the bonnet or roof Robert – that’s what I’m planning on offering the MINI tuning guys – a full wrap price may scare them off !!!!

the white APA is really nice and subtle – one of those things where you don’t really see it until close up.

[Robert Lambie]

i doubt it would matter where i use it mate, ill rip it back off within a day anyway…. ide just do it, take some pictures for the portfolio then back off with it! :lol1:

[Michael Szwacki]

You must be rich Robert 🙂
Put £100 vinyl, take a picture and bin it – respect

I still don’t know who selling Oracal in UK.

[Robert Lambie]

wish i was mate… :lol1:

i have zero pictures of my own with carbon wrap in them.
some suppliers have been saying i should try it out, which i do intend to but really not my thing to have on my car. that’s really the only reason ide strip it… so if nothing else it could be a demo for the site, photos for my portfolio, and some experience with the product to give feedback on the site. so not all a loss… :lol1:

i might be wrong but i think its about £25-35 from oracal… dont quote me on that though. but something tells me that was mentioned.
you can get it from Robert Horne.

http://www.roberthorne.co.uk/products/

[Michael Szwacki]

Robert, I can’t find any carbon stuff on this site. Also on Orafol site it’s nothing about it.

If it’s really that price i think i will do some waste as well 🙂
Where are you basing?

[Robert Lambie]

the official uk distributor of oracal is europoint display. but europoint display has just merged with robert horne. theres a big advert down bottom right of our homeage mentioning this.
anyway, i doubt it will be on the site as i only just got introduced to it two weeks ago or so… think they have it in grey and black, but not white which would be the colour ide be trying as my cars white. :lol1:

just call the local "sign" branch closest to you. theres a locator on their website but be sure to see the key for the map and select sign branches.

the other thing is, i might be putting my foot in it and quoting a UKSG group members prices, but i could be wrong. :headbang2: