who supplies backing strips & clamps for road signs?

[Andrew Ritchie]

gibsons: 0141 613 1919

[Darrell Wootton]

Many Thanks

Daz….

[Stephen Ingham]

try these, they are usually very helpful, great prices and fast delivery

http://www.ashbytrade.co.uk/clip2.htm

cheers
stephen

[Mike Grant]

quote q582gmzhi:

From what I have seen they seem to rivet to the back of the “Give Way” or other road signs and you use the clamps to secure onto posts.

If you are doing “PROPER” reflective road signs you are not allowed to rivet through the face of the material, use a high quality VHB tape to ho0ld the rails on the back.

Klockners aluminium do them but have recently gone through a name change and can’t remember the new name 😳

[Robert Scullion]

Cherwells are another supplier youmay want to try. Sorry dont have thier number to hand

Bob 😮

[Stephen Ingham]

mike wrote
If you are doing “PROPER” reflective road signs you are not allowed to rivet through the face of the material, use a high quality VHB tape to ho0ld the rails on the back.

sorry mate but you can’t use VHB tape to hold the sign track/ rails on the back of these types of signs

the correct way is to counter sink rivet the track onto the back then cover with vinyl, we make quite a few of these and that is the only real/ proper way to do it.

cheers
stephen

[Nigel Fraser]

Mike’s right actually Stephen 😕 see this link –
http://cms.3m.com/cms/GB/en/2-37/cRFzeFX/view.jhtml

Although vhb may not be suited in every circumstance it does offer a viable alternative to rivets and obviously a totally smooth face finish.

Nigel

[Robert Lambie]

i too, dont really see why 3m vhb tape cannot be used for general traffic signage. in some cases ide say the tape would outperform the rivette.
on a whole, i see rivettes on signs more economical too use and as an employer using the rivettes gives me more peice of mind, as the tape “must” be applied correct for it to last the test of time.
most of our signage that requires rivetts is coupled with a 4inch strip of vhb every where a rivette is put in. belt & braces sorta thing. has never failed in anyway yet and we have been using it for years. on the other hand, i have seen badly taped signs coming away, and same goes for the rivette.

[Stephen Ingham]

i stand corrected chaps, 😳
i have just never used VHB tape for that purpose, i didn’t think it was strong enough!!

i personally would be very reluctant to use it for that purpose, mainly because i was never introduced to it for that, thats obviously not to say that it couldn’t and shouldn’t be used.

cheers
stephen

[Robert Lambie]

no worries mate.. i get corrected on a daily basis by everyone here :lol1:
you should give it a go some time, its not cheap for the good stuff, costs about £1 a foot. there are various grades though & various prices… if applied right, this stuff sticks solid almost instantly.

i have a demo to do on the tape, which will be loaded in newyear with a good few other new demos…

[Adrian Hewson]

VHB tape is super
VHB tape i special
I love VHB tape

But when you put a 20ft by 5ft sign up, three rows of heavy duty channel, three solid rows of 3M 4952 (not the cheap stuff) on to the channel after cleaning thoroughly both sides with IPA. Sign sticks to.gether like s**t.

But………………..6 months down the line one windy night the sign swops fields.

Sorry guys VHB for small signs for discrete adhesion indoors and the odd invisible mend, but nought else.

Proper reflective road signs can be bought from Ashby with the channel already attached using countersunk rivent which have been overpainted so you cant see them

REgards Adrian

[Robert Lambie]

some info on 3M tape…

quote :

3MPR044 – 02/02/2004

Permanent bonding solutions offering cost and performance benefits for commercial signage

All exterior signs have common functions: identification, information and recognition of a company, product or service. From shops to banks and petrol stations, signage plays a crucial promotional role. However, that is very often where similarity ends and individuality of design becomes the dominant feature. It is this individuality that impacts the construction of signage.

Using traditional fabrication techniques such as rivetting, welding or screwing, can necessitate design compromises or cost penalties, or both. However, 3M offers a comprehensive range of alternative bonding solutions that eliminate mechanical fixings, encourage and extend design freedom, and that simplify and speed-up construction processes. Importantly, 3M Bonding Tapes & Adhesives provide an aesthetic, durable result tailored to material choice and sign design. Key among the bonding solutions offered by the company for outdoor signage applications are 3M™ VHB™ Tape, 3M™ Scotch-Weld™, EPX™ Adhesive and 3M™ Jet-Weld™ Adhesive.

Suitable for both small and large signs, 3M VHB (Very High Bond) Acrylic Foam Tape provides a high strength bonding solution that lowers system costs and reduces production time. It also offers durability, reliability and longevity, A range of tapes is available from clear to specifically developed versions for bonding before or after the powder coating process.

3M VHB Tape helps achieve high production speeds and immediate bonding. It delivers a clean and fast assembly solution that allows a broader span of design possibilities, as well as an outstanding aesthetic finish, unmatched by mechanical fixing systems. Furthermore, the instant bonding property of 3M VHB eliminates the need for storage during curing and provides for immediate handling and transportation of the assembled sign to site, thereby giving a significant productivity advantage.

3M™ Scotch-Weld™ EPX™ Structural Adhesive is characterized by its high strength and load-bearing capability that gives it an ideal fit in a broad range of sign applications, static and mobile. Although able to bond dissimilar surfaces such as plastics to materials including wood, metal and glass, its real strength lies in its ability to impart outstanding adhesion between hard-to-bond substrates such as polyolefins. For example, it can provide a superior structural bond between polypropylene and polyethylene without any prior preparation beyond wiping dust, water or oil from surfaces

adrian
when 2 reps from 3M came into see us a few years back, one thing they did point out to me when i was a bit reluctant to go with the idea of a tape to hold up my signs, was… “one of the largest signs in the UK is held together using only this tape” 3m being 3m could not afford to be lying about this sorta thing.
none the less i have seen the tape fail, but i think the bulk of the failures is down to the way it is applied/prepped by member of staff.
what we also need to realize is, its an alternative to the rivet, & rivets do fail… Ive seen many a sign lying on the ground & the channel still on the pole in place where wind pressure has ripped the aluminum from the rivet or simply ripped the rivets off with the sign.
the reason this happens is the grip of the rivet has to be “spread” its too centered over this little fixing, this is why i came up with putting a 4 inch strip of vhb behind each rivet. it spreads the grip & works very well.
for the large sign you spoke about. i would have used VHB tape on each 10ft lentgh but also used 3 rivets (if i could) along each length. the rivets would be 2inch in from each end of channel and on in the centre.
this prevents any ripping action of the sign away from the channel which would lead to the peeling of the tape in constant heavy wind causing the sign to flap. (hope that makes some sense :lol1:

as for ashby supplying these types of signs, they do and i agree give a great service, but if we can (as sign makers) make them, then ide say we should make a bit more from the sign by making it from scratch, rather than buying it in.

(just my opinions) 😀

[Peter Normington]

There is nothing wrong with either and or both type of fixing. The secret with both is that they need to be done correctly.
This can be demonstrated by aircraft wings, and fusilage. Early alluminium planes were riveted together now there are quite a few that are glued, (the original super glue was developed for aircraft fabrication)
Rob is right about spreading the stress, but this can be done in different ways, Any fixing that involves loadings of various types takes quite a lot of maths to work out the ideal solution. As laymen we tend to use over engineering to make sure that the thing sticks together.
If in doubt, stick, weld, rivet, Put a few screws in then a couple of cable ties for luck, Happy new year, now get outa here and enjoy it
Peter 😛 :lol1: 😕

[Shane Drew]

Reading this post with a lot of interest.

I use 3M vhb tape in all soets of instances that, only a few years ago, I would have used a ‘mechanical’ method.

vhb tape, and now SIKA, is used for all sorts of applications, and as has been stated here, it is all down to the preparation.

There is a new tape now called Extreme Tape, made by stylus. Whilst I was reluctant to use it initially, a have stuck pvc signs to bare concrete walls with amazing results. In one instance, a client tried to remove a sign I had put up on a concrete renderted wall, and it actually took the render with it.

You would be suprised how much vhb tape actually hold together our new coaches and buses, on our roads. Certainly SIKA and vhb have changed for the better, even over the last few years.

I would have no hestitation in doing the vhb method on the road signs mentioned in this post.

Just my 2c.

Have a great 2005

Cheers

[Mike Grant]

quote dsi:

You would be suprised how much vhb tape actually hold together our new coaches and buses, on our roads.

I think most new cars are held together with VHB tape nowadays. Have you seen a new car thats been in an accident! 😮

[Darrell Wootton]

Thanks for all the feedback regarding fixings for the signs and on how best to attach the channeling.

Does everyone use the same 3M 4952 VHB tape as Adrian?

I was looking to bond the channeling you get on the road signs to the back of 3m x 1.5m dibond to help add rigidity and support.

It probably does not need it, but I want to eliminate as much flex as possible from the board. The board will be fitted into dualcase, so in effect the vhb should not suffer from the weather or high winds in this case.

Daz…..

[Robert Lambie]

daz, dewi posted this a few weeks back. gives good explanation on the various types.

http://www.vikingtapes.co.uk/tape6.htm

for what you are doing ide say go for the cheapest one. its still very good… “grey”

i am not sure your setup there, or if you have a metal fabricator near by but…
to make something like this more rigid like dibond, run the straps vertical.
i think this would give less flex vertically preventing any blowouts or the like.
on the other hand you could run them both ways…

i wouldn’t use channel for this sort of thing. i would just take off cut lenghs of metal.. maybe 1mm and have them folded. so it would be 1inch by 1 inch “L” shape strips and adhere those to the rear of the panel.

if you don’t have a folder to make them, but have a local metal fabricator local. go in and ask if he can fold some lenghts of offcuts and sell you them… should be very cheap…

another is inch by inch aluminum angle… you can pick this up most places and is again. very cheap.

having said all that sign channel will do just the same.. just seems a little excessive and probably more expensive.

[Webeasel]

Just saw this post –

Most road signs are “invisibly” riveted using a machine from Bolhoff which punches a hole and flat rivets all at once – from a “magazine” of rivets (like nail guns)

Some roadsigns are produced using VHB tape and although we have not had a problem with any, we have replaced competitors signs that have failed!

Manual riveting can vary in quality as metric drilling for imperial rivets and vice versa often causes loose rivets.

As long as the procedures for either method are caried out correctly – there should not be a problem with either.

If its a small number of small signs – I would opt for VHB –

If however It was a large motorway sign, I would opt for Bolhoffing and you will probably find that the specification will allow for nothing less.