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whats everyones thoughts on the new number plates law?
Had a letter from the DVLA today..as from Nov 1st it will be illegall to supply any type of number plate that does not conform to the legal standard that includes any kind of show plate any miss spaced lettering or any non standard size. I know some will say this was inevetable one day but up til now it has only been illegal for the customer to use them so they take the chance. I Don’t think they realise but this will also cost the DVLA hundreds of thousands as people won’t pay the ridiculous fees for them if they can’t find anyone to make the plate into their name for them etc.
Just another government Attempt to knock the small business. -
129 Replies
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AH the joys of living in Northern Ireland, Same country different laws.
We can still make them :lol1:
I might set up a new company over here offering a trade service to mainland signmakers posted direct to customers door. would it work?Ian
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Just another example of over regulated Britain 🙄
It won’t get any better though – once we’ve kicked the current bunch of clowns out of office at the next election they will be replaced with another bunch of clowns that are more or less the same but smarmier 😕
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True words Phill…..There are people being shot and stabbed on the streets and the police waste their time with number plates. You would’nt believe some of the storys customers tell me. "your number has one letter 5mm out of place this could be a terrorist threat as the camera can’t read it sir"
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I wonder what would happen if I were to sell something that looked rather like a number plate but with a signed disclaimer from the customer that it was not and will not be used as a number plate?
Peter
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hmm, politics aside, and lets face it, smarmy gits have run the country for years, and people have been shot and stabbed in the streets since the inception of the weapons), we all know the law, regardless of what it is, and have had a fair crack as bending it. game over…
perhaps.
why not sell a kit, rather than a finished plate, you sell them some letters, some backing, and a piece of perspex, with instructions on how to make the most perfect legal plate, if they decided not to follow the instructions, then how can you be held liable?
as for the expensive plates not being bought, you may be right, in my mind though, it is a heck of a lot harder to remember …
MLM 598P,
YKX 257X,
YO03 ABC etc,than it is to remember the likes of
M1CES
L1CES
ANT5
LE58 IAN
BA57 ARDetc. what would you be more likely to remember in an accident?
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W4NKR 😕
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I feel show plates should be allowed, simply for that ‘Show Plates’ – On the road anything else should be Illegal.
Years ago you would get stopped for having a brake light out which I personally think was good, an officer could take a walk round a vehicle and look it over in many cases I suspect finding plenty of unroadworthy vehicles. I guess it’s all too much paperwork now.
Personally I would rather see the guy driving the 18 wheeler at a busy junction or such whilst eating a Yorkie and talking on his mobile hammered.
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That’s all I do Hugh, I sell the customer the parts that I suppose they could make into a number plate.
I also have a haulier that buys plates from me for his trailers, they say T1, T2 etc, will they be illegal to sell to him? Same parts but defiantly not a registration plate.
Steve
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As long as they are not a reg number then you can sell what you want.
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quote Ian Johnston:AH the joys of living in Northern Ireland, Same country different laws.
We can still make them :lol1:
I might set up a new company over here offering a trade service to mainland signmakers posted direct to customers door. would it work?Ian
I think this is what came through the mail………….
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quote Graeme Harrold:quote Ian Johnston:AH the joys of living in Northern Ireland, Same country different laws.
We can still make them :lol1:
I might set up a new company over here offering a trade service to mainland signmakers posted direct to customers door. would it work?Ian
I think this is what came through the mail………….
(hot) (hot) (hot) SURELY bringing us into line. Ah well i live in South Armagh,government officials don’t like visiting here :lol1:
Funny enough some of my best numberplate customers are policemen :lol1: -
quote Stephen Morriss:That’s all I do Hugh, I sell the customer the parts that I suppose they could make into a number plate.I also have a haulier that buys plates from me for his trailers, they say T1, T2 etc, will they be illegal to sell to him? Same parts but defiantly not a registration plate.
Steve
Steve
it is already illegal to sell No. Plate components to an unregistered person or company which is why the No. Plate companies ask for proof of your SID numberKev
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This will be really interesting !
Somehow, I can’t see every superbike, that has had millions spent making it streamlined and drag effecient with a standard UK legal 9×7 plate
on it !What about the makers of chrome frames that nearly every Harley or custom bike has on, are the manufacturers of those going out of business now as well ?
Like I say…………this will be interesting come November !! 🙄
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Not had my letter yet from thee DVLA so can I still make them lol.
Ian
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I go the same letter. The people who will suffer the most is the people who make and distribute online plate builders as essentially their software cant be legally used.
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Interesting reading………we do not make plates but both Marcella and I have number plates that are illegally spaced ( and the letters are black Scotchlite!). Our decision and we are prepared to take the consequences.
A couple of years ago I was in my brightly sign written van and was pulled by the traffic police, yes there are still a few out there who have not been replaced by more cash efficient gatso tax cameras.
Anyway it was lunch time , dry ,good visibility, entering a town at a legal speed , approaching a high school at lunch time as the pupils were out……….said traffic cop decides that I am a menace to society and on go the blue lights and sirens…………he is on the wrong side of the road approaching the school and nearly wipes out an on coming car………my crime was an illegally spaced number plate which he proceeded to confirm using a ruler…………are you aware of the laws regarding number plates sir? was the question………yes I replied ‘when my wife was at Police College I studied along with her so that I could test her ‘ I replied
Oh? well the problem is that plates like that cannot be read by cameras so we are having a clamp down………he issued me with a ticket…..which I duly had stamped by a friend who has an MOT station…my plate remain on the van, I have a legal set sitting behind my seat for the next time I get stopped………
So the upshot is I still have my illegal plates and the next time the police need my help ( and my wife is an ex cop……so I am very pro police) I may decide to get even an not help……..If you make everyone in the country a criminal or make them feel like a criminal by victimising them needlessly then the police and government as institutions will not be able to rely on your help when they need it.
hope that made sense?
john
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The really amazing thing is John that these cameras that cant read our non conforming plates can still read them well enough to send the fine through the post.
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Ill be honest, i dont see what the big deal is unless you have to survive on illegaly printed/made plates. then yes, i can understand your issues about it all… but lets face it, its hardly a sign business, if it is setup to rely on the supply of dodgy plates… i mean show plates. 🙄
ok, im being a bit sarcastic, but you can see where i am coming from…have we ever made them, yes we have… however, ive never assembled a plate nor supplied the pastic or reflective backing but we did supply the cut vinyl letters as requested from time to time. as soon as the law began doing something about it all a few years ago we just stopped doing them. simple as that… no big deal, and ill be honest, i couldnt be bothered being asked for them when we did. same story as being asked for sunstrips or the word turbo turbo to run up the side of a car.
as john says, it wont stop me using my private plate with two letters slightly out of place, spacing wise. (thats IF i ever get round to putting it on my car. had it nearly 3 years now! :lol1: – M10GET :lol1: 😉
but then again, im not supplying them, thats my own plate and my own choice to have it that way. ill take the chance… (thats not actually my plate before anyone asks) :lol1:i honestly dont get the whole show plate argument. lets face it, its going on a vehicle 99/100. call it what you wish to try and justify making them but at the end of the day we are grasping at this term as a lifeline. we are sign makers, lets make some proper signs with proper profit, and move on.
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Ironically since I got the letter my showplate sales have went up threefold. Cant wait till November when everyone I sold showplates to want legal plates, its like double bubble lol.
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quote Paul Humble:Ironically since I got the letter my showplate sales have went up threefold. Cant wait till November when everyone I sold showplates to want legal plates, its like double bubble lol.
Paul
November is when it becomes harder for the suppliers, DVLA haven’t said when they will crack down on the publicKev
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When I first started making number plates I made a call to the DVLA regarding Show plates. Their answer was under no circumstances should you make a plate that is to be used as a show plate as you know perfectly well it will be used on a vehicle. The way I see it is if you want to run a business selling number plates and have a licence to do so then great. If you you break the law when you know the rules and get caught then tough. Number plates in my opinion shouldn’t be screwed around with. They’re there for a reason not a fashion statement. Put it this way, a car knocks down your wife or child, kills them and does a runner. No one gets the reg because it’s unreadable and the driver is never found. All this because some low life wanted to make 25 quid. The market for legal plates is massive so why risk it?
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quote Paul Humble:Ironically since I got the letter my showplate sales have went up threefold. Cant wait till November when everyone I sold showplates to want legal plates, its like double bubble lol.so you sold three instead of one this week 😉
The whole number plate thing is a farce, and people who make "Show Plates" for use on road vehicles are in fact aiding and abetting law breakers, simple as that.
In the extreme its like selling illegally, a pistol to someone, and then saying its nothing to do with you if they shot a kid
No offence to any one just a fact.
Peter
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quote Kevin Flowers:quote Paul Humble:Ironically since I got the letter my showplate sales have went up threefold. Cant wait till November when everyone I sold showplates to want legal plates, its like double bubble lol.
Paul
November is when it becomes harder for the suppliers, DVLA haven’t said when they will crack down on the publicKev
They will though mate, its happening already in the North East.
Karl and Peter, I fully understand your comments but as a classic car owner I know the market for showplates is quite significant for show cars.
A showplate can be a totally regular looking plate with http://www.uksignboards.co.uk along the bottom, not all Showplates are unreadable, as I have already said, the cameras read them well enough to send the fine.
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quote Karl Williams:When I first started making number plates I made a call to the DVLA regarding Show plates. Their answer was under no circumstances should you make a plate that is to be used as a show plate as you know perfectly well it will be used on a vehicle. The way I see it is if you want to run a business selling number plates and have a licence to do so then great. If you you break the law when you know the rules and get caught then tough. Number plates in my opinion shouldn’t be screwed around with. They’re there for a reason not a fashion statement. Put it this way, a car knocks down your wife or child, kills them and does a runner. No one gets the reg because it’s unreadable and the driver is never found. All this because some low life wanted to make 25 quid. The market for legal plates is massive so why risk it?
Well said Karl
you covered the points I was about to add
Peter
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quote Karl Williams:The market for legal plates is massive so why risk it?
couldnt agree more karl…
and as less and less are allowed to supply them, those doing it legit will clean up! -
Id just like to ask honestly how many people on here, reading this post have a 100% legal plate. To satisfy this you must have the suppliers name and postcode on there along with the British Standard Mark in the bottom right corner. Only badges allowed on the left are country identifiers (all strictly regulated).
Im not disagreeing with anything said so far, but alot of people have illegal plates without knowing it. For example, you cant have a totally standard plate with "Range Rover" in tiny text under the main VRM as a customer of mine discovered last week before buying new, legal ones from me. If you have your vehicles manufacturer logo on there anywhere it is also illegal.
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quote Robert Lambie:Ill be honest, i dont see what the big deal is unless you have to survive on illegaly printed/made plates. then yes, i can understand your issues about it all… but lets face it, its hardly a sign business, if it is setup to rely on the supply of dodgy plates… i mean show plates. 🙄
ok, im being a bit sarcastic, but you can see where i am coming from…have we ever made them, yes we have… however, ive never assembled a plate nor supplied the pastic or reflective backing but we did supply the cut vinyl letters as requested from time to time. as soon as the law began doing something about it all a few years ago we just stopped doing them. simple as that… no big deal, and ill be honest, i couldnt be bothered being asked for them when we did. same story as being asked for sunstrips or the word turbo turbo to run up the side of a car.
as john says, it wont stop me using my private plate with two letters slightly out of place, spacing wise. (thats IF i ever get round to putting it on my car. had it nearly 3 years now! :lol1: – M10GET :lol1: 😉
but then again, im not supplying them, thats my own plate and my own choice to have it that way. ill take the chance… (thats not actually my plate before anyone asks) :lol1:i honestly dont get the whole show plate argument. lets face it, its going on a vehicle 99/100. call it what you wish to try and justify making them but at the end of the day we are grasping at this term as a lifeline. we are sign makers, lets make some proper signs with proper profit, and move on.
I agree with you whole heartedly Rob…. but I do think that our civil liberties are being eroded with all this legislation.
Hence my concern about all this over regulation we are subjected to in the UK
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quote Paul Humble:quote Kevin Flowers:quote Paul Humble:Ironically since I got the letter my showplate sales have went up threefold. Cant wait till November when everyone I sold showplates to want legal plates, its like double bubble lol.
Paul
November is when it becomes harder for the suppliers, DVLA haven’t said when they will crack down on the publicKev
They will though mate, its happening already in the North East.
Karl and Peter, I fully understand your comments but as a classic car owner I know the market for showplates is quite significant for show cars.
A showplate can be a totally regular looking plate with http://www.uksignboards.co.uk along the bottom, not all Showplates are unreadable, as I have already said, the cameras read them well enough to send the fine.
Paul I’m sure you are aware, a classic car can have a period number plate,
they to were made to a standard, and "show plates" are something quite different.A show plate to me is a plate that can only be used off the road, like in a "SHOW"
😀
Peter
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quote Karl Williams:When I first started making number plates I made a call to the DVLA regarding Show plates. Their answer was under no circumstances should you make a plate that is to be used as a show plate as you know perfectly well it will be used on a vehicle. The way I see it is if you want to run a business selling number plates and have a licence to do so then great. If you you break the law when you know the rules and get caught then tough. Number plates in my opinion shouldn’t be screwed around with. They’re there for a reason not a fashion statement. Put it this way, a car knocks down your wife or child, kills them and does a runner. No one gets the reg because it’s unreadable and the driver is never found. All this because some low life wanted to make 25 quid. The market for legal plates is massive so why risk it?
difficult call Karl……….does the fact that I have a no plate where one letter is 25mm out of line ( not an illegal font) make my vehicle less road worthy than yours?
the TV program last week where they ‘cloned’ the prime ministers number plate could have been interesting………
john
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quote Peter Normington:quote Paul Humble:quote Kevin Flowers:quote Paul Humble:Ironically since I got the letter my showplate sales have went up threefold. Cant wait till November when everyone I sold showplates to want legal plates, its like double bubble lol.
Paul
November is when it becomes harder for the suppliers, DVLA haven’t said when they will crack down on the publicKev
They will though mate, its happening already in the North East.
Karl and Peter, I fully understand your comments but as a classic car owner I know the market for showplates is quite significant for show cars.
A showplate can be a totally regular looking plate with http://www.uksignboards.co.uk along the bottom, not all Showplates are unreadable, as I have already said, the cameras read them well enough to send the fine.
Paul I’m sure you are aware, a classic car can have a period number plate,
they to were made to a standard, and “show plates” are something quite different.A show plate to me is a plate that can only be used off the road, like in a “SHOW”
😀
Peter
The definition of a Classic Car changes every year though Peter. My Mini Pickup for example can use black and silver plates, but my Classic 1985 S1 RS Turbo Escort that I recently sold was governed by todays new legislation.
A classic car is over 20 years old by insurance standards, then you have Vintage and Veteran. The problem is the laws arent clear cut enough so the man on the street knows them.
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Phill,
I agree that a lot of legislation in this country is @rse about face. But if you apply for a licence to fill in a form clearly stating that you do not or will not manufacture plates for any other purpose other than for legal reasons. If you have a licence and infringe your rights to this then it should be removed. If you don’t hold a licence and make plates then you should be fined. Sorry to whinge but if you follow the rules great. If you don’t tough sh!t if you get caught. -
Ok John, but can I ask what buzz there is about having a plate with a letter 25mm out of place? Is that really worth the risk of a fine?
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Karl I will check the photocopy of my original license application tomorrow but I dont recall it saying anything like that on it. As far as im concerned aslong as I tell the customer the plate is not for road use then its their issue.
If this wasnt the case then the DVLA would have no need to send the recent letter to Numberplate suppliers.
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quote Karl Williams:Phill,
I agree that a lot of legislation in this country is @rse about face. But if you apply for a licence to fill in a form clearly stating that you do not or will not manufacture plates for any other purpose other than for legal reasons. If you have a licence and infringe your rights to this then it should be removed. If you don’t hold a licence and make plates then you should be fined. Sorry to whinge but if you follow the rules great. If you don’t tough sh!t if you get caught.thanks karl saved me typing that.
this law has been coming for a long time as rob says move on
chris
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Just because our politicians decree something doesn’t mean it’s right!
Look at Nazi Germany – an entire nation was coerced into believing that evil was justified – simply because the state authorised it!!
We have a duty to always question and challenge our politicians and the laws they try and introduce – because often their reasoning is misguided
saying "I was only obeying orders" is not an excuse.🙄
Okay – I’m being extreme – but let’s not just accept all this legislation as being for the greater good when clearly it isn’t. It’s there because of certain pressure groups that lobby parliament.
How long will it be before alcohol is banned in the uk – it’s being targeted already – don’t say I didn’t warn you 😕
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Paul, I wouldnt call an ’85 escort a classic, just an old dog 😉
In 85 it would have been fitted with modern type reflective plate anyway would it not?
I cant see any reason why it should have exceptionn from modern registration plates.?Peter
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quote Paul Humble:Karl I will check the photocopy of my original license application tomorrow but I dont recall it saying anything like that on it. As far as im concerned aslong as I tell the customer the plate is not for road use then its their issue.
If this wasnt the case then the DVLA would have no need to send the recent letter to Numberplate suppliers.
It’s a legal form Paul. You sign it for legal purposes not to @sre around when you have it. The DVLA don’t like providing sign business’s with a licence. I had to stipulate on the form that I would not make showplates in order to get one then sign it. You signed yours to state that you would produce legal plates.
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quote Peter Normington:Paul, I wouldnt call an ’85 escort a classic, just an old dog 😉
In 85 it would have been fitted with modern type reflective plate anyway would it not?
I cant see any reason why it should have exceptionn from modern registration plates.?Peter
No, they were fitted with non reflective pressed plates, albeit yellow and black or white and black.
And again, anything over 20 years old is a Classic in the eyes of the insurance.
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out of interest were you keeping full records of all plates made
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Sorry Paul but with all due respect mate and this goes for anyone screwing with plates if you make them and have a licence you will get caught, fined and have your licence removed. This is a no win argument and personally i think the DVLA are justified in making the changes.
it’s like having a reflective that stops cameras taking your reg when you’re speeding. You have the intention to speed so you should be banned. The law’s the law mate. Abide by it or don’t bother making them. -
Karl and Peter – I can just see you both in east Germany 30 years ago reporting your neighbours to the Stasi 🙄 :tongue:
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quote Chris Wool:out of interest were you keeping full records of all plates made
Yes, including showplates. I still ask for names and addresses on showplates and keep a comprehensive recored.
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quote Phill:Karl and Peter – I can just see you both in east Germany 30 years ago reporting your neighbours to the Stasi 🙄 :tongue:
S0d off Meldrew! 😀 😀 😀 😉
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quote Paul Humble:quote Chris Wool:out of interest were you keeping full records of all plates made
Yes, including showplates. I still ask for names and addresses on showplates and keep a comprehensive recored.
Why keep a record of showplates you’ve made. You’re not supposed to do them so why incriminate yourself. (?) 😕
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Karl, im not disagreeing with the new ruling at all. However, I have never signed to say I wont make showplates, therefore if asked, I will do so until the new ruling comes into force on November 1st.
Numberplates and Showplates are a tiny, almost insignificant part of my business now, I do however disagree with some of the legislation and fell I have the right to voice an opinion.
The truth is that 75% of Police dont even know the rules.
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quote Paul Humble:quote Peter Normington:Paul, I wouldnt call an ’85 escort a classic, just an old dog 😉
In 85 it would have been fitted with modern type reflective plate anyway would it not?
I cant see any reason why it should have exceptionn from modern registration plates.?Peter
No, they were fitted with non reflective pressed plates, albeit yellow and black or white and black.
And again, anything over 20 years old is a Classic in the eyes of the insurance.
As far as i remember reflective plates were introduce in 1973
cant think why they wernt used on your escort Paul?can youPeter
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quote Paul Humble:quote Chris Wool:out of interest were you keeping full records of all plates made
Yes, including showplates. I still ask for names and addresses on showplates and keep a comprehensive recored.
why people say a showplate is a sign and not to be used on the road so why keep records
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quote Karl Williams:quote Paul Humble:quote Chris Wool:out of interest were you keeping full records of all plates made
Yes, including showplates. I still ask for names and addresses on showplates and keep a comprehensive recored.
Why keep a record of showplates you’ve made. You’re not supposed to do them so why incriminate yourself. (?) 😕
Its to show that they werent sold as UK legal Numberplates. If you read your letter from the DVLA that was recently sent you will see it isnt an offence to supply, just to display.
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quote Paul Humble:Karl, im not disagreeing with the new ruling at all. However, I have never signed to say I wont make showplates, therefore if asked, I will do so until the new ruling comes into force on November 1st.
Numberplates and Showplates are a tiny, almost insignificant part of my business now, I do however disagree with some of the legislation and fell I have the right to voice an opinion.
The truth is that 75% of Police dont even know the rules.
Oh yes you have.You signed for the licence. This would be produced in the event of you going to court. I’m not saying you don’t have the right to voice your opinion Paul of course you do mate. But I think you need to do a little reading up on the risks you’re taking. No one wants to read on here one day you’ve been done..
As for 75% of police don’t know the rules is complete rhubarb! -
quote Peter Normington:quote Paul Humble:quote Peter Normington:Paul, I wouldnt call an ’85 escort a classic, just an old dog 😉
In 85 it would have been fitted with modern type reflective plate anyway would it not?
I cant see any reason why it should have exceptionn from modern registration plates.?Peter
No, they were fitted with non reflective pressed plates, albeit yellow and black or white and black.
And again, anything over 20 years old is a Classic in the eyes of the insurance.
As far as i remember reflective plates were introduce in 1973
cant think why they wernt used on your escort Paul?can youPeter
I shall look into it Peter, but I feel the definition of what the DVLA class as reflective now and the definition of what they classed as reflective back in 85 may have changed.
I shall ask on the RS Owners Club and find out.
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quote Karl Williams:quote Paul Humble:Karl, im not disagreeing with the new ruling at all. However, I have never signed to say I wont make showplates, therefore if asked, I will do so until the new ruling comes into force on November 1st.
Numberplates and Showplates are a tiny, almost insignificant part of my business now, I do however disagree with some of the legislation and fell I have the right to voice an opinion.
The truth is that 75% of Police dont even know the rules.
Oh yes you have.You signed for the licence. This would be produced in the event of you going to court. I’m not saying you don’t have the right to voice your opinion Paul of course you do mate. But I think you need to do a little reading up on the risks you’re taking. No one wants to read on here one day you’ve been done..
As for 75% of police don’t know the rules is complete rhubarb!I was stopped for a routine check with a 9" x 3" front plate on by traffic officer on the A19. He took my numbers from my plate and never even mentioned it.
I dont want to get into heated debates on here, all I am pointing out is that I have never sated I will not supply showplates. So unless im told I cant (which I now have been from Nov 1st) I will continue to do so.
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quote Paul Humble:quote Karl Williams:quote Paul Humble:quote Chris Wool:out of interest were you keeping full records of all plates made
Yes, including showplates. I still ask for names and addresses on showplates and keep a comprehensive recored.
Why keep a record of showplates you’ve made. You’re not supposed to do them so why incriminate yourself. (?) 😕
Its to show that they werent sold as UK legal Numberplates. If you read your letter from the DVLA that was recently sent you will see it isnt an offence to supply, just to display.
You aren’t allowed to manufacture or supply. If you have the correct software you will find straight away the minute you make an illegal plate the message comes up on screen and states ILLEGAL PLATE.
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quote Peter Normington:Paul, I wouldnt call an ’85 escort a classic, just an old dog 😉
What about an 86 Capri then? – Tell me it’s an old dog and I’ll never accept any of your transfer charge telephone calls ever again 😕
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around that time there used to be reflective pressed plates available , cos the plastic ones broke to easy, not like todays shatter prof ones.
chris
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quote Karl Williams:quote Paul Humble:quote Karl Williams:quote Paul Humble:quote Chris Wool:out of interest were you keeping full records of all plates made
Yes, including showplates. I still ask for names and addresses on showplates and keep a comprehensive recored.
Why keep a record of showplates you’ve made. You’re not supposed to do them so why incriminate yourself. (?) 😕
Its to show that they werent sold as UK legal Numberplates. If you read your letter from the DVLA that was recently sent you will see it isnt an offence to supply, just to display.
You aren’t allowed to manufacture or supply. If you have the correct software you will find straight away the minute you make an illegal plate the message comes up on screen and states ILLEGAL PLATE.
Hence not supplying it as a LEGAL plate. Its a loophole that the DVLA have decided to close, but in the meantime its not illegal to supply, deal with it.
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quote Phill:quote Peter Normington:Paul, I wouldnt call an ’85 escort a classic, just an old dog 😉
What about an 86 Capri then? – Tell me it’s an old dog and I’ll never accept any of your transfer charge telephone calls ever again 😕
An 86 Capri is a work of art mate. Luv em!
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I had an 86 Capri Laser in black, I was the boy!!!
For the record, I dont know what plate it had on, but it WAS a dog.
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quote Paul Humble:quote Karl Williams:quote Paul Humble:quote Karl Williams:quote Paul Humble:quote Chris Wool:out of interest were you keeping full records of all plates made
Yes, including showplates. I still ask for names and addresses on showplates and keep a comprehensive recored.
Why keep a record of showplates you’ve made. You’re not supposed to do them so why incriminate yourself. (?) 😕
Its to show that they werent sold as UK legal Numberplates. If you read your letter from the DVLA that was recently sent you will see it isnt an offence to supply, just to display.
You aren’t allowed to manufacture or supply. If you have the correct software you will find straight away the minute you make an illegal plate the message comes up on screen and states ILLEGAL PLATE.
Hence not supplying it as a LEGAL plate. Its a loophole that the DVLA have decided to close, but in the meantime its not illegal to supply, deal with it.
How do you mean deal with it? You are supplying. You are breaking the law. You deal with it! 😉
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Im not breaking the law yet Karl, im supplying a SHOWPLATE which is legal until November 1st. Hence the DVLA letter we recieved.
The terms of my licence never stated I couldnt supply showplaes, just that I had to keep records for road legal NUMBERPLATES.
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quote :its not illegal to supply, deal with it.
i dont have to deal with it because i dont have anything to do with it, just enjoy people justifying there actions on a dodgy subject.
should have a numberplate post every week
chris
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quote Chris Wool:quote :its not illegal to supply, deal with it.
i dont have to deal with it because i dont have anything to do with it, just enjoy people justifying there actions on a dodgy subject.
should have a numberplate post every week
chris
To be honest, ill argue over the weather! lol
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quote Paul Humble:Im not breaking the law yet Karl, im supplying a SHOWPLATE which is legal until November 1st. Hence the DVLA letter we recieved.
The terms of my licence never stated I couldnt supply showplaes, just that I had to keep records for road legal NUMBERPLATES.
Ok Paul. When i rang and asked the question if I make a plate that’s deemed a show plate and get the customer to sign to state it was not for road use to cover me the answer was No you can not do this. I also asked if I put a sticker on the back stating not for road use could I still be in the wrong? The answer was if you are caught making showplates with vehicle registrations on this would be deemed an unlawful act and I would be prosecuted.
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[/quote]
You aren’t allowed to manufacture or supply. .[/quote]
Incorrect !
It is however illegal to supply a legal plate without getting the relevant information and keeping records from the customer.
It is not illegal to manufacture or supply a showplate. as of yetThis is quite clearly stated in the letter from DVLA. But of course as of 1/11/2008 the new law will be out, and then it will be illegal to make or supply.
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Ahhh! Bureaucracy. That’s one of the reasons I don’t do number plates. That and the fact that there’s not enough money in it.
Except for my own bikes of course, but we’d better not go into that. Like John Thomson’s, they are reflective black and, like John, I’ll take my chances.
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I quote from the DVLA letter dated July 29th that all Registered Numberplate Suppliers recieved:-
quote :From 1 November 2008 it will become an offence to supply number plates that do not comply with the Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations 2001. There is a maximum penalty of £2,500 and/or suspension from the register for up to 5 years. This offence will apply throughout the United Kingdom.It is already an offence for motorists to display non-compliant number plates on their vehicles but not an offence to supply them.
I think that verifies all of the points I have made so far.
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OK I started the thread so I’ll explain….I Did’nt expect a lot of people on here to understand the business side if you don’t make plates.
We are a Sign shop on a busy road we make shop signs, van lettering,
Car graphics etc, we have a 54" printer, Plotter and do all the same things day in day out as the rest of you. (I’ve been in the sign business for 30 years). But we also do car graphics and plates. Yes a big amount of business is the boy racer brigade but a lot are ordinary people. We do not promote Show plates that can’t be read and try to talk people out of having Brush script etc in favour of sensible readable fonts. So a lot of what we do are the badges on the side like car makes etc instead of GB. Simple fonts like souvinir are just as easy to read as standard. We make good money from this along side our sign work. As for missed spaced letters to make names or words, this has been drastically encouraged by the DVLA (The government). by selling them for such huge amounts of money. If a plate looks remotely like a name then they hold it back for auction Why ? knowing people will miss space it. The highest plate sold by DVLA Was KI NGS for £230,000. You can not tell me this persons name was not King and he would not miss space it.
Ok some people don’t get the personnal plate thing saying its vanity but people spend thousands on there car to look individual so why not the plate. What do you suggest that we all follow the norm and act as sheep and all drive a black model T. We keep all records of ID ect as required to cut down on car theft and have had several visits from DVLA inspectors who always praise us for keeping records of even show plates and doing our best to cut down on proper crime. -
There is a rumor in the industry that this is just the first step in a long line of legislation that the government is coming up with in the next few years.
The small number plate manufacturer is on a losing battle. First of all they virtually made it impossible for him to supply mail order, we have been making plates since 1993. We had a very successful mail order business from plates, and in 2003 the government decided that to produce a legal plate, you must obtain proof from the owner. No photocopies, no faxes, got to be genuine items. Who is going to send a passport, or driving licence through the post for a number plate ? Not only that we would have to make sure that it was returned safely, so our postage would have to increase to make sure it did get back to them.
So that then made a gap in the market for ‘showplate’ suppliers who thought that as long as they called it a showplate, even though it looked 99% like a legal one, that was ok.
It was only a matter of time before the law was changed because this just made a mockery of the present law !In the next 2-3 years the 2 or 3 major number plate suppliers will have a monopoly, if not already. Lets face it who can compete with £3.50 or less for a pair of plates, which is what they are supplying to major dealers, like Ford, Vauxhall, Bmw, Citroen etc now ?!
When they have priced the smaller companies out, they will then introduce, that they are the only companies allowed to make and supply a number plate. You will then have to apply to them for said plate with all the necessary documentation, and no doubt by then they will incorporate a microchip that contains all the vehicles information which can be read by a camera at the side of the road.
Trust me, it’s on it’s way……………………….soon you won’t be able to f@rt without someone knowing it was you !!
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Your right there Peely, when you look deeper into the original legislation it was these big number plate companies that were heavily involved in drawing it up.
Paul, from 1st January 1973 the law changed from the old black/white plates to yellow/white reflective with black lettering, in fact it refers to any vehicle manufactured after that date.
The from 1st Sept 2001 any new plates made had to use the special font.Steve
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This Government will tax us for smiling and having fun soon that’s why Gordon Brown is such a miserable git.
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Just for those that don’t understand the show plate thing, It will be illegal for us to make any of the plates shown here.
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hi,
Got my nice letter of the DVLA today. Nice people good job I have never made a plate yet.
Ian
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quote Martin Oxenham:Just for those that don’t understand the show plate thing, It will be illegal for us to make any of the plates shown here.What he said. It’s effing stupid. How can any of the above be deemed un-readable, by either a scamera or the human eye? Once again, it’s red tape over common sense & I for one will continue to buy show plates over & above the ‘proper’ euro flag ones. Moreso the fact they are usually cheaper, but hey 😉
However… Anyone using a showplate on the road using italics or comic sans should be stoned to death at the side of the road. Hateful things!
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quote Martin Oxenham:Just for those that don’t understand the show plate thing, It will be illegal for us to make any of the plates shown here.
Well so it should be,
we are one of the few european countries that are allowed to mess with number plates, All plates should be provided by the dvla, I cant see why so many people think it is "cool" to have a plate that is not legal.
Anything that is done to reduce car identity theft and criminal activity with vehicles has to be a good thing, and before you tell me an iffy plate doesn’t add to crime, yes it does, and in a big way, thats why the laws are changing. as far as number plates like K1 ING there is no reason to adjust the spacing, it still reads the same, and the dvla have never shown any plate that has been altered, for the reason of a sale. its muppets that change the plate to suite them that deserve three points on their license every time they get caught.
and people who aid and abet should also be penalisedV. Meldrew 11
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if enforced heavily you will not only see the rapid decline in the sales of show plates, but all those businesses selling private plates. as i said, after nearly 3 years i have not yet put my plate on my car. but i probably wouldnt have bothered buying it back then if everything was just as strict.
if and when i do get a chance to put it on it will show a very slight alteration to a couple of letters "spacing wise" but nothing else. i have " R 600GLE " which of course should read " R 600 GLE"
anyway… stick to signs… pardon the pun! 😉 -
Now now Robert, surely you mean R600 GLE and have the supplying companies name and postcode on the bottom along with a British Standard mark. 😛
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nope… nor do i have them on my car. 😀
as i said though, if this was in force back when i bought them i probably wouldn’t have bothered. regardless, when the plates go on, it will be spaced as i want it to be and ill take my chances. however, im still not profiting from supplying them am i?
bit like the heroin addict can use for his own use, but not supply. :lol1: :lol1: :lol1: ok ok bad example…as i said, i don’t agree with this whole law enforced nonsense, but i do and always will try and use it to my advantage business wise. if i cant ill move on… which i suggest those effected by it should too. its now law, your not going to beat it so why your wasting time and energy on trying too! beats me. 🙄
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quote Peter Normington:Anything that is done to reduce car identity theft and criminal activity with vehicles has to be a good thing
I agree with the sentiment Peter, but I cannot for the life of me see how these laws are going to do a blind thing about it.
Any villain that wants hooky plates only has to stroll around his local supermarket car park, with a screwdriver in his pocket, and can take his choice. Come on, they can but a P-Cut for £350, and make their own.
No, once again, an ill thought out law that will do nothing to combat crime. Again, basically law abiding citizens, albeit with a bit of vanity, get stung whilst the real villains carry on without sanction.
Christ. I hate politicians. 🙁
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you would probably make an excellent one John 😎
Lynn
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quote Lynn:you would probably make an excellent one John 😎
LYNN!!!!!!
I’ve never been so insulted.
I’m surprised at you. 😕
😀 😀 😀
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John I’m so sorry 😳 you as a true gentleman and wise in the ways of the world and man, would be an excellent choice
Lynn
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I appreciate the thought and sentiment Lynn, but I’m afraid I speak my mind too much to make a politician.
I was going to say "good" politician there but, of course, there is no such thing.
😀
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that’s probably whats needed John a politician that actually speaks their mind 😀
Lynn
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The system should be changed. number plates do not and will never serve as a security device they should be used for basic identification only, as john has just said give me five minutes and a screwdriver and I’ll get you a set of plates. Number plates are a bolt on after market product that can be changed in seconds and the DVLA encourage you to change them. For security then all cars should have some kind of chip device built into the back window or the car itself from manufacture that is with the car for life. Something that could be read by speed cameras, conjestion charge moniters and police tracking devices. The technology is there and if this was the case then no one could tamper with it easily.
As for the terrorist or criminal thing then if they can make Passports , Credit cards and driving Licenses then I’am sure they can make number plates. -
Number plates don’t and won’t stop car crime it’s just another sound bite from the government the same as ID cards. The reason for the plates to be uniform is so machines can read them as well as people for congestion charges, speed cameras and other money generating schemes, telling people that it will cut car crime is just to mask the real reason.
Steve
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quote Steve McAdie:Number plates don’t and won’t stop car crime it’s just another sound bite from the government the same as ID cards. The reason for the plates to be uniform is so machines can read them as well as people for congestion charges, speed cameras and other money generating schemes, telling people that it will cut car crime is just to mask the real reason.
Steve
Spot on.
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When Vascar Cameras first came out a police officer told me it could read the word "POLICE" on another car across the car park.
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quote John Cooper:quote Steve McAdie:Number plates don’t and won’t stop car crime it’s just another sound bite from the government the same as ID cards. The reason for the plates to be uniform is so machines can read them as well as people for congestion charges, speed cameras and other money generating schemes, telling people that it will cut car crime is just to mask the real reason.
Steve
Spot on.
They may or may not be money making schemes, but if you agree they are, then do you also condone speeding? just because the system isnt perfect it’s no reason to make it worse by encouraging more people to break the law,
The congestion charge, right or wrong is here to stay, and will spread more and more, so it will be better in the long run if the people who dont pay get the fines, not some poor sod who has had his number cloned, yes it is easy to do it and may not be a major crime, but if it is harder for joe soap to avoid a £60 fine it may be easier for him to pay the congestion charge, than pay a mickey mouse plate supplier £25 quid a set.
is it ok to clone a tax disc,? according to some of the arguments above it should be,
Peter
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Hence my argument….Build something into the car that can’t be changed.
But then you will get the Big Brother merchants saying "But now they can track us every where we go" !!!!! -
Peter, I haven’t encouraged anybody to break the law, I don’t condone speeding although when I was a lad I did do a bit of boy racing :lol1:
I believe that speed cameras have been hijacked by government & police forces to bring in revenue, I also believe that congestion charges are here to stay and that all major cities will be doing it in a few years also I believe toll roads will increase in number in the not to distant future. Don’t get me started on car tax Peter but no it isn’t alright to clone one.Steve
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This may be of interest, proposed ideas for further regulation of No. plates in the coming future.
http://www.dvla.gov.uk/media/pdf/consul … 140703.pdf
Kev -
Don’t start on speed cameras…..
Front page Bristol Evening post "Speed cameras up 11 fold but no fewer accidents. -
quote Peter Normington:then do you also condone speeding?
Peter
in certain circumstances yes………20mph outside a school maybe sometimes too fast…….however 80 or 90 on a deserted motorway in a modern car or bike can be perfectly safe…….remember that motorway and town speed limits were set in the late 1960’s when a standard car was a Morris Minor! Braking distances have improved since then!
(Incidentally our 70 mph speed limit on motorways was actually a temporary measure imposed after the car manufacturer AC, when we had a car industry in this country, were caught on the ‘new’ M1 testing a low drag Le Mans car for high speed stability……..politicians decided to save us from ourselves and intorduced a ‘temporary’ 70 mph speed limit which we still have today.Oh and my number plate does not have an illegal font…..only the spacing is ‘wrong’.
john
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quote Steve McAdie:Peter, I haven’t encouraged anybody to break the law, .
Steve
Not saying you have Steve or anyboby for that matter, just a general discussion, we all want to pay less for motoring, and the people who clone plates for the purpose of avoiding charges are just as bad as the ones that dont pay insurance or rfl, Just my thoughts, most people who want show plates, want them to hide there true identity, whether from speed cameras or other recognition systems,
the more people caught for avoiding tax and insurance the better for us all, and if this can be done more efficiently,using cameras, leaving the police to do more important things, why should I not agree. as I said the system is not perfect but even a small improvement is better than none
Peter
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Sorry Peter but you are so out of touch. Most of our show plate customers are car buffs that spend all their money on their cars. Thats kids with souped up cars and 40 plus with Mercedes and sports cars.
We have a few locals in the area that the police should spend their time on….These people buy cars at Fifty pounds, no tax no Mot and not registered to any of them. Then when they brake down they dump them and buy another.
Kevin that paperwork is dated 2004. -
quote John Thomson:quote Peter Normington:then do you also condone speeding?
Peter
in certain circumstances yes………20mph outside a school maybe sometimes too fast…….however 80 or 90 on a deserted motorway in a modern car or bike can be perfectly safe…….remember that motorway and town speed limits were set in the late 1960’s when a standard car was a Morris Minor! Braking distances have improved since then!
(Incidentally our 70 mph speed limit on motorways was actually a temporary measure imposed after the car manufacturer AC, when we had a car industry in this country, were caught on the ‘new’ M1 testing a low drag Le Mans car for high speed stability……..politicians decided to save us from ourselves and intorduced a ‘temporary’ 70 mph speed limit which we still have today.Oh and my number plate does not have an illegal font…..only the spacing is ‘wrong’.
john
yes John a ton can be safe
I have heard all the argumentsts about speed, 10mph outside of a school can be to fast if the unexpected happens,
like saying a ton is safe on a deserted motorway it is only safe if you can see not only the road ahead, but the future, a broken down car, on the hard shoulder, a passenger decides to open the door just as you are passing, could be nasty? Ok chances are slim, but who can tell till it happens,? when it does most people thought it wouldnt happen to them, we all do it , but at the end of the day we should be aware of the consequencess, rather than just justifiyng why we think we are safe to drive at speed.it is the un expected that can catch the most experienced driver out,
BTW I thought it was aston martin that caused the introduction of the speed limit?
Peter
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quote Peter Normington:quote Steve McAdie:Peter, I haven’t encouraged anybody to break the law, .
Steve
Not saying you have Steve or anyboby for that matter, just a general discussion, we all want to pay less for motoring, and the people who clone plates for the purpose of avoiding charges are just as bad as the ones that dont pay insurance or rfl, Just my thoughts, most people who want show plates, want them to hide there true identity, whether from speed cameras or other recognition systems,
the more people caught for avoiding tax and insurance the better for us all, and if this can be done more efficiently,using cameras, leaving the police to do more important things, why should I not agree. as I said the system is not perfect but even a small improvement is better than none
Peter
Sorry Peter but you are very wrong about the people who buy Showplates. 99% of my Showplate sales use a totally standard, legally spaced font but they want a name or a car make on the bottom. As ive already said I would be interested to see how many of the people against showplates actually have showplates on their cars.
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quote Peter Normington:BTW I thought it was aston martin that caused the introduction of the speed limit?
Peter
I thought it was a Jag.
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quote :and 40 plus with Mercedes and sports cars.
sod it I’ve been labeled
😉
chris
is this still going on and on and
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Johns right – it was an AC Cobra 😀
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quote Paul Humble:quote Peter Normington:BTW I thought it was aston martin that caused the introduction of the speed limit?
Peter
I thought it was a Jag.
and i thought it was the fuel shortage back then now where are my coupons.
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