whats a good cheap 600mm cutter?

[Alison Falzon]

Hi

I had exactly the same budget as you when I bought mine! I’ve now got a Jaguar II 610 cutter. I was previously quite swayed to get a Summa D60, but when I looked at the specs, you get more for your money on the Jaguar.

It’s an excellent machine, and I’ve had absolutely no problems with it at all, and would recommend it to anyone.
I ordered it, and received it next day from Grafityp – who I find are very helpful & friendly as well.

They have a website link on the front page so have a look at that. Give Nigel a ring – 01827 300 500, I’m sure he’ll do you a good deal!

Ali

[Nik Hope]

thanks for the advice Ali,
just spoke to Nigel! he offered me a jaguar and flexisign pro for about £1500, which seems like a good deal but i checked out flexisign pro on the net and it seems slightly limited, like you should upgrade to flexisign master after you’ve got frustrated with it after a few months…. what software do you use? and i have to admit, i am tempted by the kingcut as they bundle in signblazer pro with it and the whole lot comes to around £1300.. but it might be a bit fragile.. apologies if i’m coming across as indecisive and wussy, but once you bought you’ve committed really, it’s not like you can swap cutters easily is it!

[Alison Falzon]

I tend to do all the design work in CorelDraw, and with the Jaguar you get drivers that enable you to cut directly from CorelDraw itself, so that’s what I do. I do sometimes use the SignPal software that came with it, which does all I need it to, but as I’m used to Corel I use that most of the time.

I thought about getting the kingcut at the time as well, but if you look closely at the specs, it doesn’t compare as well, and you are much better off paying just a bit more for a better machine.

I think it comes with 2 years on site warranty as well (if I can remember rightly) – and that’s definately worth the consideration.

I can’t comment on the Kingcut suppliers, but I can highly recommend Grafityp from the experiences I’ve had with them. The last thing you need is to get any problems with your machine, and then not get the support. I did have a couple of queries setting it up when I first got it – which was purely because it was different to the Summa D60 that I was used to previously. I phoned them a few times, and they helped me over the phone, which resolved the problems I had. They werre really nice, and didn’t make me feel l like I was causing an inconvenience, and even offered to send someone out – but we got everything sorted over the phone anyway!

As for the machine itself, it’s fast, reliable and it’s got lots of useful feature, so I’d definately recommend it.

Hope this helps!

Ali

[Neil Davey]

Are you sure Grafitype offered you Flexisign PRO with the cutter cos thats about £3000 worth of software!!!

If they did then I’m going for the deal too!!

I use flexisign and I’d recommend it.

Cheers Neil

[Richard Urquhart]

its worth getting the cutter to get flexi free flexi pro is great and powerfull I think its signpal your getting which is almost the same i think ,well it looks the same
i got a cutter from Grafitype signpal ultra and its still going well

[Robert Lambie]

i could be completely wrong here but ide guess its flexi-cut or possibly flexi-letter?

[Nik Hope]

oh dear.. now you’ve got me thinking!
I think he said “OEM flexisign pro”.. which i could upgrade to “OEM flexisign master” later for £300
I wonder if the OEM bit means it’s a “lite” version of the software…..
does this ring any bells with anyone?
(I was too busy writing down prices to get the names right, and to be honest any software would be better than the casmate-cut i’ve been using)

ps: i’ll dig out a mugshot of yours truly soon 🙂

[Neil Davey]

Never heard of Flexisign Master? There is an expert version but I think that is £1500 ish so I’d check what your buying before parting with your cash

Neil

[Paul Cox]

I think you’ll find that the Software you’ll be receiving is the Signpal Software – it is very similar to Flexi-Sign as it is made by the same companies or group of companies.

[Nigel Pugh]

Hi all,

The software is OEM version Flexisign known as SignPal Apprentice, Expert, Master & Pro, the only difference between SignPal & Flexisign is that SignPal only contains drivers for the SignPal range of cutter/plotters, and so it is cheaper than it’s Flexi equivalent.

Hope that clears up any confusion.

Jobe

[Signs & Wonders]

Nik

I have the Jaguar 11 cutter with Signpal Master and it works brilliantly. I had used Flexisign before and it is more or less the same apart from the name. I too have Corel which will drive the cutter, but the Signpal Master is just like using Flexisign.

I had also looked at the Kingcut machines, but after seeing the Jaguar in action I was convinced it was up to the job.

Just re-read your last post and yes these are OEM versions but they are definitely not lite versions – it’s just that they only drive the signpal machines.

Hope this helps

Tony

[Cookster]

Cannot believe someone wants to buy a 610mm plotter for £1500 quid with software and expect either to be any good! If you want a decent plotter & decent software then you need to be investing more money.

This is why the sign business has gone to pot! everything is so cheap but it doesn’t mean to say it’s any good!

But good luck anyway

John

[Peter Normington]

John,
how does the price of equiment affect the quality of output?
or are you saying that someone with £20k to spare and no experience is going to make an exellent signmaker?
The best signmakers on these boards only need a few quids worth of brushes to produce fantastic work.
Peter

[Cookster]

All I’m saying is that you can’t buy a good plotter & software for £1500 quid! everyone here knows that.

John

[Peter Normington]

John,
Perhaps for the benefit of others , what make of plotter and software would you recommend for someone starting out?
Peter

[Nik Hope]

I am inclined to agree with Peter on this one, I have been making signs for eight years on a camm1 and some have been top quality (some have been mediocre i’ll admit) but I would say that it was down to my design skills rather than the cutter that decided the quality of the finished product
🙂
Nik

[Alison Falzon]

John,

So does that mean that all the work I’ve ever done on mine is a load of rubbish then??!

All the customer’s I’ve had have been very happy with designs, and the finished jobs, and I spent £1500 on my plotter…….
not that any customers know the difference…..

[Nik Hope]

by the way,
just wanted to say thanks to Ali for all the helpful advice
you should ask Nigel for a discount next time you buy some stock
cos you got him a sale there!

ps: soz about the slanted photo.. my legs are the same length, was just leaning when it was taken

[Neil Davey]

Woaah

Sorry John I disagree with you totally. It’s not about how much money you have to spend on a machine, cos to quite honest mate I’ve seen some crap signs out there that have been produced on expensive machines.

It’s down to the person pressing the keys and whether they’re any good at layout, design etc. and also know a little about the theory behind signs and lettering.

Also to go back to expense, I could probably run rings around your expensive machines with my sable quill £19, one shot, £5.49 and home made mahl stick!!!

Right, I’ll get down off my soap box now.

Cheers Neil

[Nigel Pugh]

(hot) I can feel admin edit coming on but here goes.

Say 20 to 25 years ago to buy a vinyl cutter with software that ran through dos and had no more than 15 to 25 fonts included would have cost best part of £20,000.

And now cus you can pick various vinyl cutters / hobby machines for less than £1,000 does that make them any less of a machine compared to twenty plus years ago……….well no it does not.

Go like for like as in a TV, Microwave or even a dvd player that you can pick one up now for around £30 – 40 brand new, far cheaper than your Beta or VHS video but far superior in the quality of recording or viewing.

I would like to go further but because I am a supplier/visitor the last thing I want to do is seem biased or promoting one product above another, hence no brand names have been mentioned.

Jobe

[Peter Normington]

Even if edited by admin I, agree with Jobe, and as in my first post £1500 is an average cost to buy a 610 cutter, my first graphtec cost over £3000 and that was 10 years ago
peter

[Robert Lambie]

cookster i agree with you mate to a certain extent anyway…
our game is going to pot with low priced machines & software not forgetting everything else for that matter.
the problem is they “are” all coming down in price over time like jobe has said, but… none are built like they used to be. metal parts replaced by flimsy plastic, cheap circuit boards inplace of reputable brands and more…
take the old greber 4b. i could stabd on that without breaking… (no wise cracks guys 😉 ) the outline module for the 4B was like a vhs video tape.. etc etc i know of many 4Bs still going today. 20 years on… working as they should.. why? because they are built well.. nowadays.. forget it!
machines all do much the same, but wait till chips blow, parts snap and more, you will be digging deep or having to replace the machine altogether. good business sense says, “if you can afford it” buy the best!
off top of my head i could put a good machine and software together for under £1500 not a problem. not top of the range but reputable none the less… good software/machines doesnt make good signs, just makes creating them much easier… you need the brain to move the mouse, to tell the software what to do….

[Peter Normington]

quote Robert Lambie:

off top of my head i could put a good machine and software together for under £1500 not a problem. not top of the range but reputable none the less… good software/machines doesnt make good signs, just makes creating them much easier… you need the brain to move the mouse, to tell the software what to do….

Rob, how can you agree and then paradox yourself? 😉
Peter

[Nigel Pugh]

Rob must admit from your post what you said was spot on, ( I forgot to mention the fact cus I blew a fuse).
But very correct with earlier machines you could drop a house on them and still they would keep on churning the work out, must have been built by Volvo.

And again rightly so as in most things the older the kit is the more it costs to replace, i.e. main board or power supply, just because nowadays most of the new machine parts are produced in the far east, at the same time for older machines the parts available are now just what is left in stock for any machine, if it ain’t available then the machine is no better than a doorstop.

I suppose you just can’t please everyone 😀

Jobe

Goddamn Spellchecker 👿

[Andy Gorman]

Surely there’s a difference between a £2000 plotter and an £800 one? I’ve seen machines of identical spec at both of the above prices. I think the point being made by cookster is a fair one – you can get started with 1500 squids but it’s going to be with limited-feature software and, I would guess, a plotter of a lesser quality. I don’t believe that 800 quids gets you the same as 1500 quids would. Surely not. I’m a firm beliver in ‘you get what you pay for’.

So there. 😛

[Robert Lambie]

:lol1: :lol1: :lol1:

its a knack i have peter…. 😉

i just mean that good business sense is to buy the best so agree with cookster. also agree that the massive drop in kit prices is why our trade is deteriorating…

i was disagreeing that a good start up package cant be bought for £1500, coz it can… & that no matter the cost of the kit, good or bad, its down to the individual using it.

now im confusing myself 😕

[Nigel Pugh]

😮 I give up, anyways wasn’t the world ending at midnight tonight 😀

[Peter Normington]

My opinion , for what its worth, has always been to buy the best you can afford. Not just for sign stuff but for everything, That does not mean that you cant get something at a lower cost to to a job, the argument was that cheap equipment is downgrading the sign inustry. Its like saying that a carpenter who buys a cheap saw can’t cut a straight line in timber. He can, but will have to buy a new saw more often. 😉 😀 😀 😀
Peter

[Robert Lambie]

i took down a panatrim fascia this week. was poorly fitted/constructed. wrong fittings for long term. panel was warped and faded and vinyl curling/cracked…
i replaced it identical in appearance. panatrim, design, size etc etc
we charged £700. when i was picking up the cheque the guy said to me..
looks great mate, job well done. handing me payment he smirked and said, but i only paid £400 for the same thing two years ago… i laughed while climbing into my van and said, maybe so… but i bet you wont have a sign maker replacing mine in 2 years 😉
like for like is not always as it seems 😀

[Robert Lambie]

jobe… the world has ended mate… this is heaven 😉 (angel)

[Peter Normington]

And by the way the cost dosn’t always indicate quality, otherwise Rolls Royce would still be in business.

[Robert Lambie]

i agree, but i said £700… not £7000 :lol1:

[Nigel Pugh]

My opinion Pete an this is purely to give the admin edit enforcers summat to do is………………

If you want to spend £xxx or £xxxx or £xxxxx then fine, I’d rather someone spend £xxxxx (plus vat, sorry Mr. Brown) than £xxx. but at the end of the day if your signage needs are say in-house then why spend £xxxxx when you can spend £xxx to do the same work.

I agree that the sign industry is been cheapened because of how easy it is for someone to start out new and to buy the kit and start producing signage whatever the quality.

From suppliers to signmakers we all eat from the same table, so we all end up been affected.

(re-read 10x so if any characters or scenes seem familiar then it’s purely coincidental)

Jobe

[Peter Normington]

Rob,
thats exactly what I said, RR used to sell cars for £100,000, but the people that could afford that sort of dosh, compared them with Mercedes and realised that for 10k less could get a better car with less problems and a better warrantee. Minis were another example,
They are now comparativley cheaper than in 1959!
Peter

[Gordon Forbes]

Going for the like for like theme and this is slightly off topic but relavent all the same as regards the dearer cheaper option aka chinese imports.

What I’m talking about is these flood of cheap stuff coming from there and the “percieved” quality of the cheaper stuff. I have a friend who is a mechanic on motorcycle dirt bikes to be exact and some of his friends bought some of these quads they broke down or stopped working and asked him to have a look at them.
Gearbox internals brass bushings where in the more reputable bikes would be roller bearings one of these fell out and stopped gear selection also the gear select shaft bent because it was so thin and made from chewing gum.
One guy bought two of them one ran for 20 min the other ran for about two.
A dealer I know has had so much grief with them he wont touch them with a barge pole returned all his stock.

Well thats my rant about the cheapo stuff thats supposed to be as good as the dearer stuff Buy one Get one free will be the next probably because you will need it.

Goop.

[Nigel Pugh]

quote Robert Lambie:

jobe… the world has ended mate… this is heaven 😉 (angel)

Oh yeh then why can I still see yours and Mr. Normingtons avatars 😀

No way can that be heaven 😀 😀 😀

[Peter Normington]

Who said we wold be in heaven?
Peter

[Nigel Pugh]

Ok fair enough, brick wall & face, walked straight into that one 😳

Jobe

[Alison Falzon]

Anyway, this debate could go on forever. But where has the man who started it gone??!!

I could have a really expensive cutter, and at the same time be an awful designer, and I could use 2 year vinyl for a van, and I could apply it badly with creases and bubbles. I could use cheap 3mm foamex for a large freestanding sign, and install it without adequate support…….

Will I have any customers? Probably not! OR:

I could have a cheaper high spec cutter & be a good designer, and use high quality materials – the right materials for each job. My work can be seen around the area for years…..

Will I have repeat orders? I think it’s highly likely…………….

Ali

[Phill Fenton]

quote itkserv:

Anyway, this debate could go on forever. But where has the man who started it gone??!!

That’s right – Nik The Brush stirs up a really good argument then wanders off and leaves everyone fighting amongst themselves :lol1: :lol1:

[Alison Falzon]

I meant where’s JOHN!!

Anyway – getting back on track, if you all recall – the question in the first place was about the best that “The Brush” could get for his available budget of £1500.

I recommended what I’ve got (I had the same budget at the time) – as I thoroughly looked into it at the time and that was the best piece of kit for that amount of money.

So no one can grumble that he should pay more because he has no more to spend….

[Michael Lafferty]

I agree with everything Ali has said.

You also have to stick with what you can afford in your budget. Get yourself up and running, generating an income and then invest in more expensive machinery if you need it.

I bought a DGI Omega OM-60 from The Magictouch for doing t-shirts and then kind of wandered into vinyl. If I knew then what I know now I would have went with a package from Grafityp.

The cutter I got was fine, but I reckon I could a better deal from Grafityp and saved myself a bit of money, I spent over £2000. I certainly could have got what I needed for around £1500.

Cheers
Michael

[Nik Hope]

I’m still here and following this debate!
but it has gone a bit off topic….
I originally asked if anyone had bought a kingcut or omega cutter and what where they like?!
to tell you the truth i only joined the forum on monday and this was my first post here and was a bit gobsmacked to see this thread go on and on!

to clarify for all.. I have chosen a puma (one down from a jaguar)
plus oem flexi pro (is that right nigel?)
I mostly paint murals and do about 1-2 hours on the cutter per day so it seemed silly to buy a £4000 cutter and signlab etc..
I do a fair amount of work for a large pier in brighton 🙂 and much of the mural work also requires signage, for example I recently painted one of those booths that you put your heads thru to get photographed and it required lettering “just married on brighton pier… book your wedding ceremony on the pier, phone blah blah”, much of my work is like this…
John.. would you spend more than £1500 on a cutter in my position? *hair*

[Michael Lafferty]

quote thebrush:

to clarify for all.. I have chosen a puma (one down from a jaguar)
plus oem flexi pro (is that right nigel?)

Glad you got yourself sorted.

I didn’t know about this place went I bought my cutter, wish I did

Michael