WHAT AM I DOING WRONG??

[John Harding]

hey Stuart you need a plan ie to find a formula that works, I wouldn’t shell out money for someone else to measure up on the hope of getting the work unless that client was an established client

re the Barber you’ve done the right thing so long as its not taking too much time, I don’t get all the quotes I submit but hope for 2 out of 3 although if i have a bad vibe about a client at a visit I say its approx x amount or from x amount and get a non refundable deposit of £40 for artwork in advance.

Experience helps its a learning curve 🙄

john

[David Lowery]

Get the measurements, work out roughly what all costs will be, quote customer. When customer says good price, layout please, you reply, deposit please 😀 only then do you spend your valuable time designing.

[Warren Beard]

If you don’t talk to the customer to find out what they want then you will always be forced to supply a layout with the quote to show them what you have quoted on, if the customer has given you an idea of what they want then you know what to quote for and follow instructions as Dave (or Rob) suggested.

It’s up to you and you will learn over time how far you should go to try secure the work before you take any money. I know it is very hard to get deposits but if they are serious and you convince them of your capabilities and professionalism then they won’t mind giving you a deposit.

You are effectively a salesman and not a sign maker when you are meeting with a customer (it’s just one of the hats a "sign maker" wears 😉 ) and a salesman needs to know how to read a customer and how to sell to that "type" of customer. Some people just can’t sell and they always struggle but perseverance helps and you can learn how to sell but it’s not fun 🙄 :lol1:

Also remember some work is not always worthwhile doing, know what you need to protect yourself and stick to it, I will usually tell the customer to give me a rough size and a brief of what they want and I do an estimate, if they are happy to accept there could be changes to the price after a site inspection and pay a deposit only then will I travel far to do the site inspection as the order is now secure (or the deposit will cover anything if they change their minds etc) I find it hard to get work further away as travel costs etc start throwing the price out, so for the further work quote what you need to quote to make money and if they are happy to pay and give a deposit then you do the job,otherwise use the time to find other work nearby 😕

Hope that helps but there’s no easy simple answer.

cheers

Warren

[Jill Marie Welsh]

First of all- no deposit, no sketch.
If the place is local to you, measure it up (never write the exact measurements on your proposal, keep them in a separate notebook) drop off the written estimate in person to the client so you can collect a deposit for the sketches.
If the place is not local to you let the person know that there will be a site survey fee of $__ to cover your gas and time for measuring the sign. If they are serious, they will pay, and this can be deducted from the price of the job.
I don’t like to work for free.
Love….Jill

[KevinGaffney]

That’s all very well insisting on a deposit, but unfortunately a lot of our competition out there re quite happy to provide free artworks to clients, so unfortunately we often have to take a chance and do the same.
It’s a sad fact, but many clients put absolutely no value on our design time.

[OwenTaylor]

Some companies offer a free design service because they can. I work for myself and I need to make every hour count. A larger company may employ an apprentice or junior designer and can afford to have him knocking out designs all day for the minimum wage.

I find it useful to have a portfolio of work with me when meeting a client. This way you can reassure them that you are up to the job and they will get a feel for the quality/style of your work. You need to come across as a complete professional in order to secure a deposit. Have confidence in your design abilities and never say things like ‘I’ll get some ideas together’. This only devalues your service. Don’t underestimate the power of design – if the customer gets 3 similar quotes but you have the best looking portfolio of work then you have more chance of getting the job.

[Phil Craddock]

I always talked to our customers or prospective customers as a ‘Livery Consultancy’ angle and not that of a print shop.

Therefore they can be guided through a range of services because they always say …. " I got a van so how much to put graphics on it …." of which there is a multitude of answers.

There are 2 things I ask my customers regarding vehicle graphics as it is down to:

1. your imagination or how ‘creative’ you want the job, i.e. a printed design that encompasses your brand id, if you have one. Or just the phone number and web address ??

2. your budget, how much have you got to spend then this usually dictates the degree or level of time you can allocate for design and then take into consideration material required like cast or wrapping or polymeric, the production time pre and post production – how many of us cost up weeding time ?? and fitting including cleaning prep of the vehicle.

If you outline these to customers they then (hopefully) will see the benefit of using a professional and not just any old sign shop.

I had to call out a heating engineer the other week and even before he walked through the door he wanted £75+VAT call out fee before he even asked me what the problem was !! so be brave and get a formula that works and stick to your guns.

[Karl Williams]

quote OwenTaylor:

Some companies offer a free design service because they can. I work for myself and I need to make every hour count. A larger company may employ an apprentice or junior designer and can afford to have him knocking out designs all day for the minimum wage.

I find it useful to have a portfolio of work with me when meeting a client. This way you can reassure them that you are up to the job and they will get a feel for the quality/style of your work. You need to come across as a complete professional in order to secure a deposit. Have confidence in your design abilities and never say things like ‘I’ll get some ideas together’. This only devalues your service. Don’t underestimate the power of design – if the customer gets 3 similar quotes but you have the best looking portfolio of work then you have more chance of getting the job.

Totally disagree on that one. I do a lot of artwork daily. No customer has anything done until they’ve paid a deposit and that includes the regulars. This way I know for sure I don’t lose out totally if they take the design elsewhere. As for saying you’ll come up with some ideas…..thats what the business is partly about, coming up with ideas to for a companies image. The customer wants you to think about their interests and they want you to come up with good ideas for there business image.

[James Martin]

Your probably not doing anything wrong Stuart, on the contrary, your learning all the time, and persevering the best you can.

I get it all the time, customer is dead keen right to the point that they all they have to do is say go ahead and instead they have had a change in direction and or circumstances and everything is on hold till they get a new van or move premises or wait for that cheque to come in.

Even if I think they don’t like/trust me a don’t take it personally anymore! 😀

Try not to do to much work for them until your sure your on a good footing with them, and if you can keep it local.

I read there are five hurdles to overcome before you get the sale:

No money
No hurry
No need
No desire
No trust

James

[OwenTaylor]

quote Karl Williams:

quote OwenTaylor:

Some companies offer a free design service because they can. I work for myself and I need to make every hour count. A larger company may employ an apprentice or junior designer and can afford to have him knocking out designs all day for the minimum wage.

I find it useful to have a portfolio of work with me when meeting a client. This way you can reassure them that you are up to the job and they will get a feel for the quality/style of your work. You need to come across as a complete professional in order to secure a deposit. Have confidence in your design abilities and never say things like ‘I’ll get some ideas together’. This only devalues your service. Don’t underestimate the power of design – if the customer gets 3 similar quotes but you have the best looking portfolio of work then you have more chance of getting the job.

Totally disagree on that one. I do a lot of artwork daily. No customer has anything done until they’ve paid a deposit and that includes the regulars. This way I know for sure I don’t lose out totally if they take the design elsewhere. As for saying you’ll come up with some ideas…..thats what the business is partly about, coming up with ideas to for a companies image. The customer wants you to think about their interests and they want you to come up with good ideas for there business image.

I agree with you totally. I don’t produce any work without obtaining a deposit either. What I meant was try not to pass design off as something that’s quick and easy. Many customers don’t understand what’s involved in the design process and often think it’s something you do in front of the tv in the evening.

Ofcourse I’m here to come up with ideas for the customer but even producing a handful of design concepts for a facia or vehicle can consume an hour of time. Make sure the customer knows that you have spent this time.

[Stuart Green]

Thanks guys, really good answers there. I’m thinking now no deposit no design. No contract no work. No upfront deposit then no far away work.

Problem is how would i get a deposit from a distant Customer?? would i ask for a cheque in the post??

As of now i’m thinking to only do measurements myself with a telescopic ladder (which i need to buy) for the quote but thats it.

[Phil Craddock]

we use a Paypal account for customer deposits ….simples 😉

[Lynn Normington]

we do credit card payments it also works for the ones, who just call in and have no cash 😀 like you would go to sainsburys the bookies or the pub with no cash 😀 why do they think we wouldn’t want to get paid 🙄

Lynn

[Phil Craddock]

agree – we take CC and debit too 😉

[KevinGaffney]

This thing can work two ways though. Met a client yesterday who was looking for a load of dibond signs. Got the order, but during discussions, he revealed he didn’t have a proper company logo despite being in business over twenty years. I offered to design him a new logo for free. He was hugely thankful and proceeded to add signwriting of hi eight articulated trucks and set of raised lettering spanning a thirty foot cladded wall. His place is 220 km from my workshop. If I had looked for a deposit, the meeting wouldn’t even have taken place, never min securing three weeks work. So, I don’t think it’s correct to always insist on deposits, every customer has to be handled differently

[Nigel Hindley]

quote KevinGaffney:

This thing can work two ways though. Met a client yesterday who was looking for a load of dibond signs. Got the order, but during discussions, he revealed he didn’t have a proper company logo despite being in business over twenty years. I offered to design him a new logo for free. He was hugely thankful and proceeded to add signwriting of hi eight articulated trucks and set of raised lettering spanning a thirty foot cladded wall. His place is 220 km from my workshop. If I had looked for a deposit, the meeting wouldn’t even have taken place, never min securing three weeks work. So, I don’t think it’s correct to always insist on deposits, every customer has to be handled differently

Hi Kevin,

Are you saying you are doing all that work for a company 220km away with no deposit? Id agree with you that every client is different but I would always say that asking for deposit can mean that the client would respect you for asking unless of course you knew them well.

Nigel

[KevinGaffney]

That’s the point I’m making Nigel. All customers are different and need to be dealt with in different ways. If you’re doing work for a semi state body, a local council or health, do you look for a deposit? Answer is you can’t in that case. It isn’t always feasible to get a deposit and looking for one in some cases can be counter productive. I have also found in the past, that in some cases a customer who offers a deposit can be slowest to pay the balance when job is finished