Vinyl wrap removal causing damage to paintwork!

[John Thomson]

Has the car had non factory paintwork in the past?

John

[Phill Fenton]

I don’t think so John. But I’ve no way of knowing for sure.

When some of the laquer came off the boot I put this down to a vehicle repair in the past. But when it came off the roof as well I had my doubts (and how often would a roof section need any respray work). From what I can make out the car is all original factory paint – no signs of repair work anywhere or hints of overspray.

I have had paint come off vehicles before when removing vinyl lettering (but this was clearly a case of a bad re-spray). I’m 90% confident that the paint on Sally’s car is original factory paint. It was only the clear laquer section that came away – the underlying colour coat is fine

[Jill Marie Welsh]

Same thing happened to me with my old truck.
I had it lettered in high-performance Calon 2.
When I peeled it off, the clear coat came off too, just in the shape of the emblem. (background of the logo)
I blamed it on what I used to remove the previous vinyl adhesive, which was paint thinner. I had removed and relettered the same day, a cold day at that, and on the one side, I had run out of Rapid Remover. The other side peeled up fine.
So maybe it was something you’d used to prep the car with?
Just guessing.
It sucks that the clear coat came off!
Love….Jill

[Peter Normington]

Phil, at least it wasnt a customers car!

I would still be looking at the paint rather than the vinyl, I have used many metres of 3651 and not heard of anything like this, not that I have had cause to remove much yet, apart from some on metalic transits that came off clean and easy after 18 months (grey adhesive)

Was the problem area on the boot done with md7? if so again it points then, to the top coat, not the vinyl.

The car could have had the roof resprayed in the past and you would not be able tell if it was a factory finish or not.Even a factory finish is not always that, if they have a fault in the finish it can be rectified to refinishing standard, before the car leaves the factory.

apart from all that, cant shed any light on the reason

[Stephen Morriss]

I’ve had areas of clear coat come off with the old vinyl, just had a Renault minibus do it.
The cold weather didn’t help, when I warmed the vinyl it stopped the clear coat coming off with the lettering.
I know you said you heated the vinyl but how warm was the metal/paint underneath?

Steve

[Phill Fenton]

The car wasn’t prepped much – it was cleaned thoroughly using car shampoo and dried. Ethyl alcohol was used to clean along wheel arches door seams etc.

I did wonder, could the solvent in the ink somehow have migrated into the lacquer and weakened it. However, It was all printed and allowed to dry for more than 24 hours before applying a clear laminate so the ink had plenty of time to dry properly before the vinyl was fitted to the car.

Peter – the section on the back that was affected was done with MD7 – So it’s fair to say that both types of vinyl resulted in this problem – but more so with the 3651 than the MD7. Perhaps 3651 has a more aggressive glue, whereas as I understand it MD7 is designed for easy removal.

Either way – I suspect the paint is at fault but what worries me is how can you tell in advance if there is going to be a problem. The only saving grace is this wasn’t a customers vehicle.

I had decided to remove the wrap to see how easy it was and to ensure something like this wasn’t going to happen. I had been planning to wrap our Mondeo but this is causing me to think twice.

The car is a "Y" reg. (2001/02 I think) – isn’t this about the time when the car manufacturers were switching over to water based paints as a result of new legislation? Perhaps they still hadn’t perfected their techniques using new paint systems – I really don’t know?

The question is what to do in future? Was this failure a "One off" and rare occurrence or is this something much more common than I had ever realised. I would be interested to hear if anyone else has had the same problem.

Finally – any suggestions as to how to rectify the damage? Is it a DIY job to rub down the remaining lacquer and respray – or should I leave it to the professionals. I did try putting some vinyl back onto the roof (same colour as the car) but the sections of lacquer that remain are clearly visible as raised sections on the roof.

Stephen – Just read your post – it was a very cold day today ( 0 degrees all day) so the car was pretty cold but the roof section was the last part to be removed so by then I reckon the car had heated up pretty well in the workshop – But I did wonder if the cold temperature allied to sudden heat with the hot air gun could have had anything to do with it?

I would find it a lot more comforting If I could get a definitive answer to avoid a recurrence

[Warren Beard]

Hi Phill

We used to have an old Nissan Sunny (about 12-13 years old) original paintwork as it came from a single owner who we knew, I applied lettering on cut vinyl only (751c) and I had the same problem with only the clear coming off when removed. I know this is no help to you but thought I would let you know this had happened before to somebody else and also just with cut vinyl.

cheers

Warren

[Chris Wool]

richard will be able to answer better but i think the parts have been repainted and poorly prepared, its not uncommon for a roof to be repainted on small cars as its where the handbag goes when opening the door 🙁
the only time i have put this type of failure down to the fitting is when its been cooked whilst stretching not this case.

we normally look for any signs of body work being done and advise that there is a chance the vinyl may not come of cleanly.

dont think you did any thing wrong just dam unlucky

chris

[Michael Dunn]

quote Phill:

Finally – any suggestions as to how to rectify the damage? Is it a DIY job to rub down the remaining lacquer and respray – or should I leave it to the professionals.

i painted cars for years before doing this.
you can do it yourself if you have a decent gun and a compressor – but not with cans – not a roof. also you’ll need quite a bit of tackle. only bits and bats, but unless you can borrow it could add up to cosing more than paying a painter to do it for you.
i would suggest remove the rest of the clear coat completely, spray the whole roof with something called ‘bar coat’ to isolate any contaminants from the old clear. then primer filler – followed by base coat – then clear.

i’d say if you can get someone to paint it for you for £80-100 let them have the hassle –

[Kevin Flowers]

the problem with clear over metallic is you never know how good the key between the two is. If done properly then no problems if not as it goes through its life – washing, polishing & the sun will probably cause it to peel. In your case the application of vinyl just caused this to happen sooner. You are better to let a paint shop refinish it as it will probably require a colour coat first to get a nice finish.

Kev

[Bill McMurtry]

I see quite a few metallic factory paint jobs with failing clear coat finishes after a few years in the Aussie weather. Clear coat seems a weak point in metallic auto paint, and a trap for the unwary signwriter. I’ve been caught and no longer sign it (or remove it) without the customer accepting the risk of clear coat peeling off with the vinyl.

[Paul & Katie Dyer]

I spent many years as a commercial paint sparayer, the base coat and clear paint system used on metalic painted vehicles often suffers from a cohesion problem, between the base coat and laquer, in that the base coat sticks reasonably well to the primer, but not so well to the laquer, causing the problem you described (particulary Fords!) When you removed the vinyl the paint seperated at the weakest point.

IMO this can now only be remedied by a proper respray.

Paul

[Shane Drew]

quote Bill McMurtry:

I see quite a few metallic factory paint jobs with failing clear coat finishes after a few years in the Aussie weather. Clear coat seems a weak point in metallic auto paint, and a trap for the unwary signwriter. I’ve been caught and no longer sign it (or remove it) without the customer accepting the risk of clear coat peeling off with the vinyl.

I agree with Bill.

I have seen many metalic paint jobs fail when removing signage.

I will not start a job unless the customer agrees that I am not responsible for a failed paint job.

That said, I did a brand new car the other day, only a week from the dealer, and the client complained that my magnetic signs kept falling off the drivers door.

I said the only reason that can happen if its been bogged up. He abused me up hill and down dale. It was only a week old.

Long story short, the dealer admitted that the car was damaged in transit, and resprayed before going on the lot. Its not that uncommon it seems.

We purchased a new car many years ago, a metalic green. The roof and bonnet started to craze about 4 years after we purchased it.

When we complained to the dealer, his records showed that it had been damaged in transit too. Fortunately they covered the paint job, but the colour didn’t match that good 🙁

As far as the drying of the print. I would have left it for 48 hours before laminating, especially if it was not hung to dry. If it was laid flat, or left in the roll, the glue would not have dispersed the solvents, and would have been part of the problem…. doesn’t matter what brand of material you use.

As far as repairing the problem, I’d get it done professionally. I hate it when backyarders do their own signs, I guess spray painters hate it when backyarders to their own spray job 😉

Just my two bob 😉

[Matt Goodwin]

Just my bit of input…

After vehicle wrapping for over 10 years, a common problem can be that there is a stone chip,scratch in the paint. The vinyl adheres to this and when removed lifts the rest of the laquor of with it.

It is very rare that the vinyl is to blame, mainly the paintwork, chemicals used to clean the area etc..

Happy New year to you all!!