-
Vehicle Graphics:- Race Car
My first race car…
I sponsored the signage for a friend with priviso to place my ad on all 4 sides…Rooki Rod class Buxton Raceway
Attachments:
-
41 Replies
-
another view
Attachments:
-
Gavin,
Not knocking it, but been there and done it years ago,
sponsor a banger racer or similar, and the only enquiries that you will get are other boy racers asking you to do free signs in return for putting your name on the car.
I would stay away from it, but that’s just my opinion.Peter
-
Its still all good exposure to get your name about.
But i’m not sure if the number on the car "666" is a good omen for business though.. 😕
-
we sponsored a scottish champion mini driver a few years ago.
not really a sponsor, just did as you have, did the car and got some free adverts on it. just be careful that every bang and smash it gets "you dont" have to replace the damaged as part of your adverts.did some a while back also on scottish champion go-cart racers. same as above…
did we ever get any business from it, well, we will never know. but we did see magazines with the car and carts in them showing our logo and number.
if you advertise on any motor type sport then of course, other racers, boy racers, but ALSO those viewing the races. mums, dads etc all come into play too… no matter if its boy racer or the large company owner that calls as a result of the advert. "the advert is paying for itself".
fine we frown on the boy racer wanting everything for nothing Peter. but those SAME lads will fork out for things like carbon wraps, specialty films etc all applied to their cars. and willing to pay properly for their pride and joy to get wrapped in it. ive probably done half a dozen carbon car bonnetts, spoliers and mirrors, over the past 4 weeks or so… each time same story. in walks the lad… "you wrapped my mates bonnet for him in carbon fibre, can i get the same?" easy money and your paid there and then…
we could argue the point of "you dont get the proper rate" for doing this. well i can assure you i do, and i recon i charge more than the going rate.
that part comes down to us, charge properly or you only have yourself to blame.sorry, going off topic here…
thanks for taking the time to post your work gavin, much appreciated mate. -
Thanks for posting Gavin, I am only giving an opinion,
Peter
mod-edit
-
like pete gave up a long time ago.
i do a fair amount of motorsport stuff but all done as paying jobs. else its not worth it. -
nice one gavin its good to keep your name getting advertised, I also used to sponsor a rally driver, gave him all the graphics for free was not thinking of getting big contracts from it, its just nice to keep your company name being talked about, as for doing boy racer graphics I also got more than the going rate the guys in the area had the money to do so and everyone was happy 😀
nik
-
Hi Peter… with all due respect you always seem to jump down my case every time I post something.. please put up some of your work so we can analyse it!!
FYI… I have already had an enquiry and will be doing a van for a spectator..
I have 4 sides with my grafix ads and 3 other ads for my Kleeneze buisiness.. 7 signs for me and a few for the driver… costing me a bit of time and about 8mt vinyl… some of the transfer tape I reused whilst fitting.. so absolute minimal cost to me.. so all in all already paid for itself from 1 outing. Also get free entry to the race meetings so a bargain I think..
Hopefully there will be no intentional scrapes as it’s not banger class – it’s a no contact class so maybe a few accidental bumps..
I’m not a 100k per annum sign business – just part time so any work is worthwhile to me..
-
Hi Andy… yes 666 is a bit dubious but hey I cant change it!! just gotta go with the flow… it all adds up to 18 so maybe not so bad – have to look at the positive side..
-
Hi Nik… I agree with you about getting our name in front of people.. Many people see it all the time as the car goes to quite a few places throughout the year..
My son will soon have his Rally car ready and his buddy races at Oulton park… My name will be plastered all over them as well.. as well as on my cars and the 666 drivers wife car has had my website and a few words on her rear window for a few months now.. more free advertising.
I love mororsport and will do lots for people involved in it.
I recently had 4 ads on a private car that did a London to Dakar charity run … just for fun.. cost me a few mt of vinyl..
in the words of Murray Walker… "Go Go Go"
-
I can see where Peter is coming from here.
Sign making is predominately a "business to business" service. Enquiries from the general public tend to be a bit of a nuisance and rarely result in repeat business.
I for one try not to attract this type of enquiry. You may (or may not) get enquiries from other businesses as a result of this type of advertising – but more likely will get inquiries from the general public (i.e boy racers) for car decal – striping and the like that is not as lucrative as "business to business" signwork.
Of course it’s all down to your own particular business model and the type of business you are interested in servicing. But I prefer to service the business market rather than private individuals
-
Good effort for some cheap decals.
However – much like Peter & Phil I’ve been ‘suckered’ into doing race sponsorship (stickers only) in exchange for putting my info on their cars & bikes.
Did it result in REAL work…not normally. I took a fair while to faff about with the umpteen small stickers needed for each vehicle. If I was charging for it like I have done on ‘classic’ race cars it’d be a couple of hundred instead of a promise off them of more work…and then them coming back because they’ve trashed their fairing or scraped a side…and expecting more ‘freebies’.
What i found was that it circulates that you do free/cheap stickers for teams and they turn up wanting it too.
Yes, one of the racers did get his van done…but I would have been doing it anyway…can make it awkward when you start charging ‘real money’ for lettering.Now I stick to doing charity deals for charity event vehicles / bangers if my name is going on it otherwise it’s ‘let’s see your money’.
Dave
-
I do this sort of thing sometimes but I now charge a reduced amount and ask for some stickers on the car etc.
I’ve found this works as it stops the constant "I’ve damaged a sticker can you do another" and also I don’t get others asking for free stickers.Steve
-
quote Gavin Conway:Hi Peter… with all due respect you always seem to jump down my case every time I post something.. please put up some of your work so we can analyse it!!
I’m not a 100k per annum sign business – just part time so any work is worthwhile to me..Gavin, I never critised your work, just gave my opinion as to whether it is worthwhile doing this type of freebie. My advise was given with the best intentions,
if it works for you then fine mate.
I really do hope it generates more work for you.Peter
-
We sponsored and came along (and worked) to a race team on the British Touring Cars, we did this for about 3 years, we helped re-do the stickers between crashes and used Avery Red 900series to hold the car together sometimes, which worked.
We enjoyed it, the client was the driver of the car and had a number of shops that we looked after…. so it was worth doing.
We never got any other related business from it except any business the client had, he became one of our biggest customers because of our commitments
-
I only do this kind of work for one customer now, they own a big mechanical repair garage and run two cars in some ford zetec ST championnship, they do really well and it’s televised with cameras in and around the cars etc.
years ago i signed a truck for them, since then i’ve done banners, a boards, the race van (big sprinter) and their unit signage, two old fiesta race cars, the two new race cars and they quite often put new business customers my way. it’s profitable.
i repair the cars when required (fairly frequently) which mostly involves offcuts, it usually just gets noted and knocked of my servicing! it’s worth the effort in that case.
I do agree with Peter and Phill though, with the cheaper racing classes it’s asking for hassle, in the past i’ve done loads of low level drag racers, stock car etc and it all just attracted more offers of me getting free advertising on their cars! little in the way of proper jobs.
that said, if it works for you… go for it!
-
Most of the people who run these kinds of cars here have their own plotters.
I only do one a year, and I put my ad on the trunk area of the car.
But I have never done one free, and I have also never gotten a job from one.
I also don’t do any charity work.
In the past, I’ve donated a few things here and there, again, never any jobs from them.
But I am glad you posted your work, and if you feel good about it that’s all that matters.
Love…..Jill -
Afternoon all
I think that doing all forms of racecars can be good, we do quite alot of the cars and you will find that more drivers will come to you if they like your work.
The main thing we find is that alot of the teams have there own companys and you will get there company work aswell.
Here is a example of one of the cars we do.
Thanks jay
Attachments:
-
couple more pics
Thanks jay
Attachments:
-
quote Steven Taylor:Nice one Gavin, stick to your guns and if this is what you want to do then good for you.
Too many people want to tar us race drivers with the same brush!
lol, i was in the drag race scene for ten years plus, we / they are / were all as tight as the proverbial, make no mistake!
-
I suspect some may even join these forums simply to learn more about the sign making process in order that they can make their own signs (thus depriving us genuine signmakers from making an honest living) 😕 :lol1: :lol1:
-
quote Phill Fenton:I suspect some may even join these forums simply to learn more about the sign making process in order that they can make their own signs (thus depriving us genuine signmakers from making an honest living) 😕 :lol1: :lol1:
I see what you’re getting at Mr Fenton!! 😉
you’re close!! doing my own car was 2nd to needing stock to sell on my trade stands (race stickers / decals associated with the drag cars etc), i was buying them each year to sell but the servise was getting more and more unreliable, to the point where one year the guy turned up with the stickers in september, 6 months after i’d asked for them and just a month before the last meeting!
thus i decided to deprive them of my work which they couldn’t be bothered to do!! pretty soon i packed in with the racing and went self employed within 12 months of buying my cutter,
not sure i’d be affecting you’re living though Phill!!
you’re not wrong though!
H
-
My comment wasn’t directed at you Hugh.
But now that you’ve confessed don’t worry about it :lol1: :lol1:
We all came into this business from different directions and for different reasons only to learn this was something we enjoyed doing and want to do as a means of earning a living.
You have my highest respect Hugh for the work that you do and the progress you have made as a signmaker. :thumbsup:
-
Don’t worry Phill, i thought it was a little ironic tongue in cheek and took it as such, I had to chuckle to myself!
re my work, thank you, though most of it really does pale in comparison to that of many on here, if only i could do what i wanted to do instead of what the customer wants!
anyways, we’re off topic now!
😀
-
Hi all probably going to get a doing for this but I have just done a job for about 600 color single cut stickers for Crail raceway they also have now taken a brochure of car related graphics to try and sell to racers on my behalf also have ended up with two Truck cabs to do and two landscaping vans all through the same enquiry and none of it has been done at mates rates. Also I’m about to do the local car clubs new exhibition trailer and they are paying too there is money to be made from them and an awful lot of it is from offcuts.
-
Guys, I don’t think anyone is saying NOT to do it. I do still do the odd bit for other racers… other than my main customer / race team but only when it’s worth doing. sure there will be other jobs which come from the small stuff but I found i was being asked to do too many small jobs with promises of bigger jobs that never came.
the bottom line is profit, to do it cheap or free to simply to get your name on the car is just false economy, if you make good money and then get subsequent work from it then nobody has an issue with what you’re doing.
quote :Yes exactly that! I didn’t read anywhere that said you had to have your own business to join?
Not only do i do my own stickers i also supply and fit a number of other race cars and bikes because i enjoy doing it, I simply point people in the right direction of where to order the vinyl so they can pick colours etc and then i do what they want, this way what gets left over i then use for myself, no money changes hands and everyone is happy! Well apart from some of you on here!Steve, with all due respect…. I very much doubt you do it for free and earn only a few mtrs of vinyl as a result, if you do… what do you do with the vinyl? give it away or sell it? i’m not being deliberately disbelieveing… well.. I am…. but i’ve spent enough time around the tracks to know that something always costs something, nothing is free in the long run.
the reason some people get disheartened about part timers earning a little beer money is because it cheapens the whole industry. Some people will be happy to stay at supplying stickers, some will go on to have successful businesses, then there will be those who are happy to earn a few sly quid to pay for a bit of beer down the pub or the track, then they start doing mates vans for £50, or the cost of whatever cheap vinyl they’re slicing up. the problem is that there are genuine businesses struggling to compete with beer money prices, livelyhoods are at stake, mortgages to pay, etc. I know it’s the same in all industries but it doesn’t mean we (business owners) have to like it.
the whole point of being in business is to make a profit, to make a living which should support you, or to make a decent margin even if it’s a 2nd job. doing it for beer money is not a good reason to be doing it and is not the reason everyone here tries to help each other out. there is not one business -prospective or established- on this site who i would not help out if i could (well… one, not you, and thats another story) but, it’s difficult to help someone or offer advice when you know your work is being undercut. this isn;t just hearsay either, just look around at all the small vans, estates and cars which have small vistaprint magnetics on the side!
it’s nothing personal dude, just business.
by the way, i’m curious, if you don’t do it as a business, may I ask what you do for a living?
Hugh
-
I’m doing a "track day" car next Monday, and I’m charging normal prices for it so everyone’s happy (including me).
No one is saying don’t do race cars. What everyone is advising is don’t sponsor (i.e work for nothing) race cars in the hope that the advertising you get will result in a deluge of enquiries.
I think the problem is this kind of work is seen as "glamorous". Many petrol heads (and I’m one) enjoy being around exotic machinery. The trick is not to be seduced into carrying out work free of charge in the hope of more work to come.
Steven Taylor has freely admitted that he does this as a hobby to help out fellow enthusiasts which is fine. However, all I’m saying is that professional signmakers have to make a living and cannot afford to be so altruistic (generous) towards race track enthusiasts otherwise they would end up going out of business.
-
Phill,
that’s probably a better way of saying what i was trying to get across! -
Hugh totally understand where your coming from there is a numpty round here offering to do 3 sides of a van for £55. Not me may I hasten to add but he must be using products that are so inferior as I know myself with delivery costs tape etc travel time gonna cost me more to do I just like to laugh when the vinyl falls off when they wash there van lol
-
some really nice race car graphics there Jay, well done mate. there lies the twist in what "you can offer" when it comes to these varying race vehicles. 😉
-
quote David Litster:Hugh totally understand where your coming from there is a numpty round here offering to do 3 sides of a van for £55. Not me may I hasten to add but he must be using products that are so inferior as I know myself with delivery costs tape etc travel time gonna cost me more to do I just like to laugh when the vinyl falls off when they wash there van lol
aye, I got one of them round here too! not quite that cheap but still far cheaper than it ever ought to be!
-
Well as it seems that i can not have my say on here now because of being honest it just backs up my point of why i went out and purchased my own plotter in the first place.
The left over vinyl goes onto my own or family race vehicles, i am in no way taking any work away from people as all the people i do a few bits for are so annoyed by going to such guys as yourselves and getting grunted at ‘dont think your getting these for free’ or ‘its hardly worth getting the vinyl out for what im gonna make on this job’!!! -
quote Peter Normington:Gavin,
Not knocking it, but been there and done it years ago,
sponsor a banger racer or similar, and the only enquiries that you will get are other boy racers asking you to do free signs in return for putting your name on the car.
I would stay away from it, but that’s just my opinion.Peter
yip peter got to agree
-
quote Gavin Conway:Hi Andy… yes 666 is a bit dubious but hey I cant change it!! just gotta go with the flow… it all adds up to 18 so maybe not so bad – have to look at the positive side..
off subject Gavin i know but at the same time you look remarkable like the late colin mcrae….oh by the way when i started signwriting in 77 we lettered his dads car (jimmy mcrae) in SMT Perth "Oh did you really Brian how bloody intresting" 😀 i hear you say 😀
-
Steven, I can understand why you do what you do and I have no problem with it. I would like to point out though that some companies like ourselves charge on material and time only, I don’t care what the total of the job is as long as our standard rates are met, as such customers are given a price and can take it or leave it, we do not look down our noses at smaller jobs they all add up.
I also understand other signmakers gripes but sometimes it sounds like total snobbery
-
quote Steven Taylor:Well as it seems that i can not have my say on here now because of being honest it just backs up my point of why i went out and purchased my own plotter in the first place.
The left over vinyl goes onto my own or family race vehicles, i am in no way taking any work away from people as all the people i do a few bits for are so annoyed by going to such guys as yourselves and getting grunted at ‘dont think your getting these for free’ or ‘its hardly worth getting the vinyl out for what im gonna make on this job’!!!of course you can have your say on here, it’s a discussion forum and as long as what’s said doesn’t break rules it’s ok.
I got into signs in a similar way to you, I spent around £4k on basic gear (cutter / pc / stock) but not because i thought other signmakers were too expensive but because they were just too slow to do what i needed, I also never ever looked at it as anything other than adding to my existing income that i was earning at the track while selling race parts etc.
Like Gavin above, I have a price for materials and time, that’s where my end price comes from and believe me, while i try to keep up with the competition -ie. not deliberately undervalue my work or undercut others- I am in no way expensive.
While my opinion may seem a little snobby (i can see what Gavin means), I am in reality nothing like snobby. Where I live we have a fairly big traveller community, if i was snobby about who I worked for I would probably lose about 20% of my regular customers. they never haggle, they just tell me what they want and the get it at a fair price…. the only thing that stipulates what I do is a minimum charge of £25 on most jobs. that said, I commonly do ‘stickers’ from offcuts from £10 up. if someone considers £10 too much for me providing a product and a service then they aren’t the customers i want. Likewise for those who want small signs, the £25 covers the min amount of time i’m likely to spend doing it!
the bottom line though, despite you saying you’re not costing other signmakers money…. is that you are, and by your own admission you are. what happens when a mate asks you to do their van? will you turn it down or do it for the cost of vinyl? if you are genuinely working for free…. which i still find hard to believe…sorry.. then the racers will be taking advantage of you, that’s the truth. there’s a guy down here who works for a big town signmakers, in his spare time he does all the stocks, bangers etc at the local oval and does very very well out of it, 2 wrapped vans, etc. there is money to be made so to give your time and services for free DOES devalue the work that others are trying to do.
many comments here are trying to offer advice, not to be derogatory of fairly new business or bully people. this is after all a forum for sign makers.
If I offend you then I apologise but, I don’t really see that i’m wrong. when i first started there were a number of posts that i took exception to, search my posts and you’ll see a rant or two that i had about being put down by established signmakers, however…. all those comments just made me want it more and to prove people wrong.
how would you feel if I suddenly began to undercut your profession by doing it as a hobby and supplying your customers on the cheap or free? what do you do? I might look into the oppportunities!
regards,
Hugh -
I’m proud to be a sign snob rather than a sign whore.
Even if you give it away eventually that won’t even be good enough.
Do I do small jobs?
Hell yes.
And I am actually glad that most racers do own plotters, and can hash it out amongst themselves, rather than expecting me to drop everything on a good paying job, after they’ve spent all their money on stuff for their cars, and letter their car on a Friday night for almost nothing.
I’ve got bigger fish to fry.
Actually had a guy who races, who’s an OK guy for whom I cut an occasional $50 job, call me last week.
His boss is bigger into racing and sick of spending money on prints.
"Is it a good idea for him to buy his own printer and do the prints for his own stuff?"
I told him it would be idiotic.
He agreed, but the boss will probably buy a $25K piece of kit and have to become a "signmaker" to keep his machine running. -
quick reply….
Steven, you can have your say all you want. but respect the fact you are on a trade website amongst professionals. Your posts were removed because they broke board rules, simple as…
your reply questioning our decision to remove the post also "brakes board rules". it is one thing using this website to seek help and advice, its another when you are trying to wind folk up with flippant comments.Please do not make a reply to this post. I am not looking for one.
this post will be removed shortly.
-
You know, I was going to post a witty, informative reply to this thread with insightfull comment. I then thought, ya know, its not worth it. Why I can hear you all yelling?
Well, let me tell you, I have no problem with people buying cutters and doing free stickers for banger racer friends. I don’t want the business and frankly I don’t need the hassle. I do graphics for British superbike teams, endurance bike racing teams and also rally cross. I charge them all and I charge them well. They don’t complain because they are professional outfits with professional budgets and they expect tp pay for a quality product. They don’t ask for freebies and they won’t get them.
The problem is that this forum has lost its essence and reason daitre over the past year or so. It was one time striving professionals could join this forum ( me included) and ask for and receive information which would help them in their BUSINESS. Advice was freely given (and taken). It now seems to be coming a resource for people who have a new printer or cutter they have purchased from the internet or elsewhere and who cannot be bothered to search for themselves or even introduce themselves properly before asking basic questions to which the answers can be found by using the excellent search facility on this forum. It wastes their time, and the hundreds of professionals who frequent this site and willingly give their time and answers to help out fellow sign writers.
I know I am not alone in this opinion as I have discussed this with a number of members privately.Its about time we Had a proper trade organisation that represents our trade in a positive and professional manner so that we can use this to market ourselves properly. This would cut down the £50.00 livery jobs that we see all the time. It would also reduce beer money sign writers plying their trade at the pub car park.
No doubt this will be removed at some point in the future. Before it does, I hope that some people see it and at least have a serious think of how our business is being undermined by jobbers and beer money purveyors.
Sorry, off topic but only answering the posts made.
And I know LOTS of you out there agree with me
🙄
Peter
-
You’ve raised some interesting points Peter.
The problem is spotting the genuine signmakers from the "chancers" that keep appearing.
Whenever I get a sniff that someone is not dedicated to the business I no longer reply with proper advice (I tend to mock instead 😕 ).
I don’t agree that the forum has changed or is at fault – it’s the same as it’s always been – but because it’s so successful, it now attracts much more first time traffic which inevitably includes the "chancers" . The problem is spotting them at the outset.
-
If you were a UKSG member Peter you would know that I am in the process of setting something up within the UKSG, and have been for some time. But i am not about to elaborate, because i have nothing to answer to you or anyone else you claim to have been collaborating with in private.
If you were UKSG member you would also know that how the boards are run… how it works in regards with newbies to the trade and more coming on board. has also been raised and discussed in depth several times and unanimously voted in favour of how UKSB is currently run.
quote Peter Mindham:Its about time we Had a proper trade organisation that represents our trade in a positive and professional manner so that we can use this to market ourselves properly.So you and those you claim to have spoke to in private have decided the BSGA has it wrong too? 🙄
What you and those you are referring too forget, or should i say, should "ask yourselves".
“where on the sign experience ladder do you regard yourselves?" you may have years under your belt, but to the next guy, "your a beginner, a novice, maybe even cowboy" in comparison.
How do you know if there was such an "organisation" your companies would even qualify? or do yous all have official papers to prove your worth??? 🙄I seem to remember only a few years back when you yourself joined the forum and our trade Peter. should i have told you to go away and come back when you knew what you were talking about? or should we have welcomed you like we did, and everyone else we have done, and a few years down the line see you and them running a successful sign business. charging the right prices, using the right products and more???
So… “where on the sign experience ladder do you regard yourself Peter?"
are you now above those that are in your shoes from a few years ago?quote Peter Mindham:The problem is that this forum has lost its essence and reason daitre over the past year or so. It was one time striving professionals could join this forum ( me included)so how would you vet the next newbie trying to start up their business and joining UKSB Peter? Should i…
* take them in for an interview.
* Spot light on them.
* Drip water on their head.
* Waterboard tactics?
* or should i be a mind reader?Or would it be better to allow the person to…
* register properly
* load a picture
* introduce themselves to us lot.
* let them get on with it, mingle online and keep this community helpful & friendly to all?Because "reality is" Peter, If you or anyone for that matter doesn’t want to help that person, doesn’t think they can be polite or whatever… you know what to do? "Do not Click Reply" to their posts.
If you personally, ask a question regarding a new contract you want to take on tomorrow. should I and others that maybe able to give you guidance "mock you" for having limited or no knowledge and having the audacity to attempt to move to a new level of our game, or should we do what we always have and try give guidance were we can. and wish you the best of luck? I think i know what most would say…
You know… UKSB is not perfect. I make mistakes, wrong decisions here and there… But i learn from them. 10 years on I am proud to say we STILL have, and always have had the busiest, biggest & best run sign forum in Europe. In fact, ill stick my neck out and say, the best run sign site i know of on the Internet today.
Anyway… as i have said, this has been discussed in depth before by the UK Sign group and unanimously voted in a ratio of something like 20-to-1 in UKSB’s favour only a few months back. so i have no desire to go over this again.
This post has now gone off topic. various posts made that are rude and breaking board rules. so will now be locked and deleted in the morning.
.
Log in to reply.