uksb logo

[Robert Lambie]

that would be great mate yes.. infact i have been asked many time for a hirez image of it which is now available.
this will be loaded for easy download in the NEW UKSG member section which should be open by the end of the week. 😀

[L J.]

thanks Rob, seeing how you answered that post so quickly, how about my emailed question from last night??
L J

[johnboy]

Can anyone point me to the members area to find the logo?

It’s me age you know!

johnboy 😎

[Nigel Fraser]

I don’t wish to speak out of turn but isn’t putting the uksb logo/web site on your van a bit like inviting your customers to have a peek into the inner workings of your business and the sign trade in general ?
I’m sure Rob’s grateful for any promotion of the site but I think it has to be to the right kind of audience myself.
Just my feelings anyway 😉

Nigel

[johnboy]

Hi Nigel, yes you have a point, most associations/trade bodies etc. the “inner workings” are protected in that you have to have user name & password to get passed the “public” face. we do of course have that so maybe that’s a judgment call for all you old sweats that have helped to make this a great site and a very valuable resource for signers!

however, time does move on and a lot of people will be able to find this site quite easy through Google, Yahoo and the like. just type “vinyl”.

regards,

Johnboy 😎

[Martin Pearson]

Nigel I don’t see how putting the UKSG logo on your van is like letting your customers into the inner workings of your business or the sign industry. The site is well controlled by Robert and certain areas are only available to registered users.
Anyone that wants to know about the sign industry and how it works could easily find a lot of info without visiting this site. I have the logo on the side of my van and its been there from day one, with Roberts permission naturally, I don’t have the web address and wouldn’t use it as on that point I agree with you it is only relavant to signmakers. If my customers ask about the logo I tell them about the UKSG and the fact that although I am a small company I have the help and support of people in the industry around the world.

[Nigel Fraser]

I take your point Martin and to advertise your membership of the UKSG is absolutely fine but it’s just that if someone was putting the site logo and/or web address on a van as a promotional thing then you could expect members of the public and potential customers to look it up.
All I’m saying is that there is a lot of open discussion about suppliers/prices/profitability etc etc on the site which could be viewed by people who were potentially your customers without having to register as a signed up user of the site.
Plus (and I am re-opening the can of worms we had recently) I think it might just contribute a liitle to joe bloggs thinking that signmaking is an easy way to make a quick buck and requires little or no real skill – thus resulting in more of the sort of “bodge-it and scarper” types plaguing people who are dedicated to running their business in a professional manner 😕
I know the site is there for anyone to look up anyway (thats how I found it!) but I was actively looking for information on the sign business. If someone is keen enough to seek out the site then they must have some kind of interest rather than just being sent there directly by an ad.
It’s only my opinion but to me it’s not like sticking a trade association logo on your van which is there to tell customers that you have certain standards. It potentially offers people an insight into things that you and I would not discuss with our customers normally.
I mean you wouldn’t go putting a link to a sign mag on your van for the same reasons I’m on about – see what I mean ? 😉
Nigel

[John Singh]

Hmmmmmmmm!

See where you’re coming from Nigel

Mind you there are lots of trade sites: Electrical, plumbing, etc
I have the feeling that the local guy who like everybody else finds time a premium will not have time to scan various sites just to pick up ‘inside’ info. (I reckon there might be just the exception: What a sad bunch!)

On the whole I think its a great idea to have the logo

Is it possible to have this on our letterheads Rob
Just think it might give a little more clout

John

[budone]

I totally agree with Nigel.

However, you type anything to do with signs into google and with in the first page you will get a link to the UKSB – This worries me some what as yes there are areas that are invisible to the general public but alot of pricing and supplier information is found in the generally accessible areas.

Oh and Johnboy I’m pretty sure you have to be a fully registered membership fee paying UK SignGroup member in order to access the UKSG members area.

[johnboy]

Hi Budone… I am.. I don’t know why i have not got the Gold badge.. I have asked Rob… one day he will tell me I’m sure?

on balance I fully understand Nigel’s concerns and they are justified. but as independents the use of this kind of logo nationally does help to give credibility, not saying that our own credibility’s need it but as Tescos say “Every Little Helps”.

Johnboy 😎

[Nigel Fraser]

Well it looks like I’m a little on my own on this one I guess :you: If you want some more logos to stick on your paperwork/van why not join some other organisations which allegedly fill the customer with a sense of security – Guild of master craftsmen, better payment practice, Federation of small businesses to name a few ?! 😉
I don’t see why you would want to point customers to a valuable “trade” resource to be honest. Anyone know a plumber ?

Nigel

[Peter Normington]

So where is the member area?

[johnboy]

way to go Peter! :lol1:

johnboy 😎

[Nigel Fraser]

Peter/Johnboy, the UKSB Members area should be visible on the Forum home page under the list of forums at the top of the page – i.e. you get to see all of the additional forums headings etc when you have membership granted. Mine looks like this –

Nigel

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Attachments:

[johnboy]

Thanks Nigel but….. cant see it….I will have to message Rob again to see if its anything to do with the “gold” badge missing… strange thing is I can see and use everything else???

Nigel just seen the picture you kindly sent.. there is a lot i cant see will defiantly have to get this sorted!

Johnboy 😎

[Peter Normington]

Nigel
perhaps the newky browns are having an effect, but I cannot see a members area. Can you do a screen capture? perhaps im missing something,
Peter

[Nigel Fraser]

Just done it while you were typing :lol1:

[Peter Normington]

That was quick!
thats why I cant see it Im not uksg.
Thanks For that Nigel
Peter

[Nigel Fraser]

….. just as a follow on from before, I’ve tried finding this site through google uk and cant get it to come up at all (without trawling loads of pages down). I’ve tried searching on “UK sign forum”,”sign makers forum”, “sign discussion” etc but with no joy. Am I doing it wrong or what ?

Nigel

[John Singh]

So its not that easy Nigel

I’ve just tried it as well

John

[Bill Dewison]

If you do searches for vinyl or plotters, the site does rank fairly high, on some searches its the first in the list.

I agree in a lot of ways with what Nigel is saying. But I can’t see anything wrong with the UKSG logo being used, just minus the web address. The vast majority of the public won’t understand what it means, but others in the trade might look at it and search the site out. Added benefit, if you see a van with the UKSG logo on it, you know its someone you know (if that makes sense) 🙄

Cheers, Dewi

[johnboy]

Nigel by Jove your right, my apologies. what led me to say that was that before we had even marketed our site one of our customers DRCS told us they had already looked at our site? when i asked how they said you can find any site/company by using search engines! i assumed the same would be true for UKSB. but i am sorry it was an assumption.

Regards, and apologies,

Johnboy 😳

[Phill Fenton]

I have a UKSG logo (Including the website address) proudly displayed on the back of my van. But seeing as I only ever say nice things about my customers 😉 – I’m not bothered if they look at this site. 😳

[Robert Lambie]

hi guys
will try give quick explanation here…

some of you are GOLD access members.
GOLD access does not allow you to see UKSG hidden forums. if nigel logs out, all those same forums will dissapear for him too.. its only certain site users that get them. i.e. UKSG members

johnboy
i got your email yesterday regarding this, but we are looking into it.
you have supplier visitor above your name, thats done by one of us at this end when you register. i need to find out why that title is put there.
if this is the case and we deem you a supplier in some way… membership would not be possible as a UKSG member, sorry mate. dont worry though, ill look into it and get back to you asap.

re-google searches.
as many will know, your site/our site will only pop up with the use of key words. even then if your keyword is used, google will only put the highest ranking sign site, relavant to that keyword, to the top of the list.
e.g.
you look for a cutting plotter.
yes, google will find this site, but! will list sites soley promoting cutters and page after page of cutter content. stands to reason… so in turn we would be lower down the pages to be found.
the boards cover so many sign topics and the site is very well established now with the engines that our current ranking is second to none other sign site like it. 😛

re-the badge on vehicles….
i can see nigels point about promoting the site etc. but not so much with the logo and under it “member of UK Sign Group” same logo basically but different wording and no reference the website. being part of the group can be something to flash at a customer who is for instance NOT PAYING you on time… 😉 i have on several occassions now and it works a treat 😉

[johnboy]

Sorry to disagree in part with rightsigns (sorry i don’t know your name) but Nigel’s point about prices and matters that are discussed could be difficult/embarrassing for some especially if it happened to be your first job of that kind and you had asked advice etc. most certainly would not inspire confidence in your customer.

but as i say on balance i think as long as prices and other such information is kept to members only areas i don’t see a problem. we will always suffer the people who “dabble” in the industry and do damage, but then show me a trade that does not?

that’s not to say that all dabblers do damage of course. but to some of us this is our lively hood and our families depend on us bringing in a wage. i personally welcome competition as long as its fair competition on an even playing field. paying tax, rates, wages, rent etc. and most of all they do their own artwork not pinch others! (just suffered a bad one of those so still sore- sorry).

After being in this game for 6 years, 7 this year i am very pleased to have found UKSB and think its brilliant. i am just sorry i found it so late?

Regards,

Johnboy 😎

[johnboy]

Hi Rob, thanks for looking into it for me. however it may be partly my fault… when i filled out the application i made an entry under the suppliers box saying “Our sister company is Nuxus Multimedia that does amazing things with photos & graphics”. that may be construed as we are a supplier which we are not we are a humble sign making company of 8 hard working slaves oops sorry employees!

If it is my mistake i do apologise nothing was intentionally meant by it just assistance to other members.

Regards,

Johnboy

PS i sent a message to you some 5 weeks ago as well off of the contact us page.

[Robert Lambie]

will check up on it mate.. no worries..
5 weeks ago one doesnt ring a bell mate sorry, is it possible to resend me?

admin@uksignboards.com

[Lee Harris]

Hi All

Just put ‘UK Sign Group’ in to Google and it’s the 5th listed – Yahoo it’s 1st

Lee

[Martin Pearson]

I can see your point Nigel and to be honest I thought that all the info on prices, quotations, suppliers etc was in the members area so wasn’t on display to the general public.
I have the Logo with UKSG member underneath but I don’t think its the same as putting a sign mag logo on your van, through the UKSG I have the abillity to do jobs all over the UK without all the traveling if my customers require it, I also have the ability to take on jobs that require more manpower or special skills. Franchised sign companys are always singing the praises of things like this and I see the UKSG being a little bit the same without the costly fees.
I don’t know about attracting people who think signmaking is a breeze and a way to make a quick buck, I certainly dont want to encourage that, there are already far to many of us about !

[Nigel Fraser]

To be honest Martin, I don’t even know which forums are visible to the public and which are not 😕 But I thought that most of the general discussion stuff was on show and I think one of the main things with not being logged in is that you don’t see any images in any posts ? But I can see what you mean about using the logo.

quote :

re-the badge on vehicles….
i can see nigels point about promoting the site etc. but not so much with the logo and under it “member of UK Sign Group” same logo basically but different wording and no reference the website. being part of the group can be something to flash at a customer who is for instance NOT PAYING you on time… i have on several occassions now and it works a treat

I agree with you completely on this one Rob – No real reason why not to use the logo and suitable wording to your advantage but not the site address. I think you would have to be slightly mad to put the web url on anything that your customer would see – I have on many occasions discussed openly things about jobs which I would not want my customers to be viewing really. For example recently I posted the image of a Ferarri 550 which I have to wrap and was asking about how long it would take,how much to charge etc – Now I don’t want my customer reading that and thinking “…this guy isn’t confident or experienced enough to be doing my fitting work…” I want to maintain the outward appearance of a calm confident professional (even if I’m panicing about what Dewi’s going to do 😉 while helping) in front of the customer. Just an example if you see what I mean ?

Nigel

[John Singh]

Agree with you Nigel

Use the logo with suitable wording but not the web address

John

[Bill Dewison]

quote creativesign:

even if I’m panicing about what Dewi’s going to do 😉 while helping

I’ll be good 😀 I may even make a brew or two this time :lol1:

Cheers, Dewi

[Andrew Boyle]

Nigel,

you talk sense to me……I agree on all your points…….

Cheers

Andrew

[johnboy]

Agree with Nigel.

Thanks for the chat, has been a pleasure.

Johnboy from -3 degrees Ferndown finally closing the door to go home only 14 hours today!

Take care all! 😎

[Phill Fenton]

In answer to concerns raised here about customers reading posts made on this site. I believe the chances of one of your customers reading what you have said about them as being pretty well negligible. There’s probably a greater chance of them overhearing a conversation in a pub – so lets keep things in perspective. If they do overhear – then so what – you shouldn’t be discussing it anyway unless you have a valid point to make in any post.

I have often criticised the actions of my customers on this site. If by any chance any of them read what I have said I would stand by my comments or I wouldn’t have made them in the first place.

[Bill Dewison]

quote rightsigns:

I have often criticised the actions of my customers on this site. If by any chance any of them read what I have said I would stand by my comments or I wouldn’t have made them in the first place.

Same here, well said Phill!

Cheers, Dewi

[Nigel Fraser]

quote Dewi:

I’ll be good 😀 I may even make a brew or two this time :lol1:

That sounds like a good idea 😀 I’ve just been and bought you some food so you don’t starve while your here – I’m good arn’t I 😉

Thanks for your comment too Andrew 🙂

Nigel

[Bill Dewison]

Nice one 😀 Definately my turn to sort us a meal at the steak house place this year though and if we get some spare time inbetween fitting, it’ll be cool to see what you’ve been upto over the year 😀

Cheers, Dewi

[Robert Lambie]

just for the record…
due to a majority vote openly on the site via another thread and by email/pm to me & after discussion with moderators. there will be some pretty big changes regarding how the site is accessed. it WONT be closed off… but will be very restricted in many ways. these restrictions will be for the benifit of the UKSG members only.
there will also be NEW board rules added to those that exist today.

this will all kick in midweek…

[Andrew Boyle]

Rob,

makes BIG sense to me….

[John Singh]

Yes that makes sense Rob, especially if there is material that might be considered sensitive or even when it comes to things like pricing etc

John

[Martin Pearson]

Nigel although I see it slightly differently to you I agree with most of what you have said, I don’t use the web address and never will, as I said before there is no need for my customers to see it. Like you I wouldn’t want my customers reading some of the posts I have put on the boards, they expect you to already know everything there is to know about the job you are doing for them and I always like to appear like I know what I’m doing in front of the customer even when I know I’m going to need some help or advice, Although I have told customers in the past that I would need to find out more about certain materials and applications.
I don’t mind telling them where I get the info from either as long as they can’t go and check out what I have said.
If Robert is going to make some major changes to help protect us from things like that then this will be great. The last thing I would want is for people like yourself to stop posting for fear of the wrong people reading the posts.

[Lee Harris]

Makes sense to me as well. Been following this thread and can understand both sides, but when it comes to using the logo with or with out web address it make no different.

As I said be fore, did a ‘UK Sign Boards” search on Yahoo and it came in 1st and on Google in came in at 5th. So then I did ‘uksignboards’. This time it was 1st & 2nd on Yahoo and 1st on Google.

So, even if we don’t put the web address on with the logo, it’s easy to find the link.

Lee

[John Singh]

There is that to it Lee

The search engines

Perhaps then with a little tightening up of the areas where others can presently access might be in order

I think this is what Rob has in mind

John

[Lee Harris]

Hi John

Yes. Lets be like other trade sites. Front of the site is for every body to see. Possible overview of sign making- writing etc. Find a sign maker directory for joe public etc,etc BUT to get in to the rest of the site, file swap, quotations etc you’ll have to be, say a fully paid up UKSG member. Lets hope that this is the road Rob is taking.

I’m sorry if I have stepped on any body’s toes but at the end of the day I want my van to have the UKSG logo on it. If the only way to achieve it is the make the site tighter to get in, so be it

Regards
Lee

[Peter Normington]

Rob
uksg as far as explained is a way to get discount buying.
I am a gold access member, will I still be able to access all the areas that I can now?
I hope that I will.
I do not need to buy from the suppliers that uksg has discount rates with,
so do not need uskg mebership (unless you convince me otherwise)
Sorry to bring this up here, but you made it public, and I would just like to know where we (gold access members) stand.
Perhaps you should start a new topic to explain?
Peter

[Bill Dewison]

There is the potential here to lock the doors too tight though. I know I promised I wouldn’t comment further with regards to the closing off of forums to non-members, but you know me :lol1:

The thing is, I stick to a simple rule, I don’t post anything about a customer that I wouldn’t be happy for them to see. If I ask for advice, the majority of the time the customer knows I’m doing this. If I ask for guidance on price, again, the customer knows. As far as a customer coming here and deciding “Oh well, if thats how you do it, I’ll do it myself!” then fine, let them get on with it. Let them go out and buy the equipment, then learn how to use it and try to apply a sign. At the end of the day, they will waste lots of time and end up with an inferior sign in my humble opinion. I turn down alot of work because I find customers want me to work for nothing, but during the time they’re discussing their sign they say something like “And people just won’t pay for a decent decorator these days, I have to justify my price” and the like. I don’t justify my price, there is a massive difference between supply only and me fitting something to a vehicle, but if a customer wants to argue the toss, I turn down the work.

Early on when I first joined UKSB and the UKSignGroup I had advice from John Singh, Phill Fenton, Martin and many others about how to go about being taken seriously in the sign trade. I was also advised not to price myself too cheaply, try and learn the art of signmaking as well as learning the day to day applying of vinyl… which I hope I have done. But I would hope for all my efforts that the customers now come to me for a good sign, not just a cheapy sign. It was recently pointed out to me, by a customer, that a chap I considered to be my competition was not my competition at all. He makes vinyl signs, has done for 11 years, but he caters for a different market in this customers opinion. I have a certain style of design, whether its to your taste or not, that attracts a certain clientele and commands a reasonable price tag. Alot of this is because of the advice I’ve recieved here and the fact that I’ve followed the advice I’ve been given freely.

Whats my point? As a few may know, I have quite a few ppl who visit the shop on a regular basis, all who have met me here on UKSB. 99% of ppl who come in are genuinely interested in furthering themselves as good signmakers and I’ll help them as much as I’m capable to, but the other 1% are the ppl that kicked off the whole debate about closing forums and making areas members only. No matter what information I give this 1%, they are going to do exactly what they want to do. Most of the time this means they’ll go out and sell things too cheaply, or throw together a sign that looks aweful and then attach it incorrectly to a building, or as has happened recently, they’ll take on a job such as a 50ft trailer, fail to complete the job as they realise they’ve taken on too much and then expect me to bail them out for nothing 🙄 Its not going to happen is it? :lol1:

Information is very important in business, but it depends how it is interpreted and more importantly how it is used. Its similar to a degree course at University. A student can pass with flying colours and never do anything with that degree, but another student can get 2nd class honours and use their degree to the fullest and have a very successful career, or use it to establish a successful business. As I say, not what you have, but how you use it.

On the other side, the point I do see is that in certain areas, the 1% brigade do make a dent in the profits of the 99%ers. Not only that, but by operating on a shoestring and working for silly money, they can put long established businesses out of business in a relatively short period of time, but even if UKSB didn’t exist, this would happen. Its a sad fact that no matter what measures are taken on these boards, this will continue to happen as the suppliers of the equipment we use, the materials we use etc. want to sell as much as they can and are willing to show these potential new customers the way to get into the trade … unfortunately certain suppliers don’t give a monkeys how they sell their supplies and who they sell them to, as basically all money spends the same.

Gist of what I’m saying, if we all overreact with this issue, the boards will become a much less helpful and friendly place as we’ll spend more time looking over our shoulders than doing what we all came here to do, help each other and try and make our jobs a bit easier. I personally love sharing ideas, tips etc with you all, I learn something new virtually everyday and I see craftsmen here that I aspire to be like in my work (whether I ever get there is another matter 🙄 )

Thats my £412 and 32 pence worth :lol1: :lol1:

Cheers, Dewi

[Robert Lambie]

the restrictions will be on things like PM’s & contact buttons and information…
the main forum to close down is one that always was closed to anyone “outside” uksg until a few months ago on a trial basis…
this was the quotes and sub-contract forum. this forum was always uksg but we opened it for a spell to see how well it would work. the problem is we didnt account for the suppliers that have access here too because they are old gold members. so in a way we opened a back door for them. also, folk blanket posting in that forum too… many little things that will now be took back to its original form of UKSG only. even then there is restrictions… uksg members can post in that forum, but cannot reply. anyone wanting to quote the member has to do it via pm only. because only UKSG members have access to it, then they will ALL have the ability to PM. the same forum will be on “autoprune” which means after 14 days the site deletes expired posts. this keeps things like our prices etc from ever being known openly on the site.

gold access areas such as demos and file swapping, links etc will still be the same… but forums such as “buy-sell-swap & graphic help, and show us your stuff etc will be closed to proably gold access and above.
this is because of complaignts about bob the builder coming on to buy cheap cutters…

new rules will be tighter on things like avatar/profile pictures..
members must have one. and a head shot at that… not wheeling a motorbike up a road at 100mph with helmet on, wethere it is them or not :lol1:
i could go on and on.. ill get the list drawn up midweek.

thing is peter, the uksg has buying benifits yes, but general access and the NEW areas soon coming to the site are/will be free to uksg members only… the regular questions forums wont be closed down, but many of the good threads going on in them will be… what i mean is, we can close down individual threads, so only certain memberships can access them. basically meaning the best of the best threads will be member reading only. again, keeping the good stuff out of public eye.

im rabbiting on here and probably all over the place with explanation.
bottom line is, gold is gold as it stands… only difference will be quotes forum and the fact gold members have no way of contacting each other, other than openly on the site via a post.

ill get something typed up asap 😀

[John Singh]

Its good to get an overall view from Rob and Dewi

Incidentally you both make good points
Its just getting the balance right I guess

I suppose sometimes those of us with full access forget that what we see is not necessarily what others see

John