Taking on employee need some advice, help

[OwenTaylor]

It’s summer time, get a graphic design student in on a placement. Offer to pay them expenses (bus fare/petrol/dinner) in exchange for practical knowledge, experience, and something for their portfolio.

I had a lad in last week, not the greatest but I got him weeding vinyl, brew making, sweeping up and by the end he was working on simple sign jobs and even business card designs.

I don’t think he’s suitable for full time, paid employment but as long as you both get something out of the deal then it’s worth it.

[Mo Gillis-Coates]

Yeah thanks owen, been down that route before. That’s not what I’m looking for though, I’m really ramping up the business an taking some serious jobs on, The guy I have had working for me so far is young but he’s good…. We have worked together for several days and it works well…

I need someone that can get in and take up the slack straight away.

Thanks anyway

[OwenTaylor]

No problem Mo, I’m kind of in a similar situation but I don’t have that financial buffer to take on a new skilled employee. The cv’s keep coming in thick and fast though.

I need two of me, but taking on skilled, experienced guys can be expensive and even a business risk in itself.

Best of luck,
Owen

[Mo Gillis-Coates]

Yeah that’s what I mean, I’m sure there is some kind of schemes that allow us to take people on to get that kick start without the financial outlay.

There is one that I know of where the government actually pay you £65 a day to have staff in (you don’t have to pay them a penny), but I have also heard that you mostly get people that don’t want to work that much… Ok for gen labouring I expect but no good for this kind of thing.

I’m speaking to my rep from CoC on Monday, he will probably enlighten me. If this sort of scheme is available, it would really help us to grow our businesses and help get people on the employment map

[Ian Pople]

Hi,

Is the gov still giving the £2k for taking on someone who has been long term unemployed.

Ian

[Denise Goodfellow]

We looked into getting an apprentice. £2 per hour, we were told.

[Denise Goodfellow]

quote Ian Pople:

Hi,

Is the gov still giving the £2k for taking on someone who has been long term unemployed.

Ian

we were told that no longer applied, I think its all down to the funding made available. But I was told that something like that might be on the cards again in approx August time.

[Denise Goodfellow]

This an email I recieved, the links or contact details might be of some use.

Following our previous conversation regarding your company’s possible interest in Apprenticeship Training, I was sorry to hear the feed back from Walsall College that unfortunately you were unable to progress with your interest for a 19+Yrs Apprentice, due to funding support issues.

I do appreciate that many businesses are not able to offer such financial commitments during the current economic climate.

Please see the link below which provides the overview of the Signmaking Apprenticeship: http://www.apprenticeships.org.uk/Types … aking.aspx for future reference.

Please also note that funding is available to support 16-18 year old Apprentices with their training costs (although salaries still need to be paid for by employers – min wage £2.50 per hour for at least 30 hrs of work – rising to £2.60 per hour from 01-10-11).

If in the future you are interested to recruit for a learner in the younger age bracket, our training providers can assist you with this process to advertise your vacancy via the Apprenticeship Vacancy – online service, which is a free service to employers. (please see attachment for further details).

If you would like any further assistance in the future regarding Apprenticeship training, please contact me directly on Tel 0121 345 4567 (Monday – Wednesday).

Regards

Jayne

__________________________________________

Jayne Bold

Employer Services Advisor

National Apprenticeship Service (NAS)
NTI Building

15 Bartholomew Row
Birmingham
B5 5JU

( 0121 345 4567

mod-edit

To find out how Apprenticeships can be good for your business, visit apprenticeships.org.uk or call 08000 150 600.

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The National Apprenticeship Service is supporting WorldSkills London 2011 – ExCel London 5-8 October 2011

Tweets by Apprenticeships

[Ian Pople]

Found this

http://www.inspiresme.co.uk/news/staff- … -term-une/

Ian

[David Rowland]

we have work experience person in this week, but someone has to supervise at all times, no knives etc.

Just remember when it comes to taking someone on and especially if they are a kid, you need to make the workshop a very safe place. You have to put a lot of work and effort into turning your "it be alright" type of workpractices into reality. e.g. Working at heights *cough*

[Peter Normington]

I always wonder when people say they need slaves but cant afford them.
would you work for nothing?
Please dont take this the wrong way, but if you cant afford to pay proper money for employees, then you need to look at your pricing structure.
Mo, you wont expand without pricing your work to cover the costs, and that includes you doing the selling work.
You seem to know all the answers, as far as selling goes, but you do need to sell at the right price to cover your production costs, without needing to subsidise your labour force.
it would be very nice if we could all employ less than minimum wage workers,
but if you pay peanuts, monkeys will be the only takers 😀

Peter

[Faisal Ali]

Peter is absolutely right. If you have so much work that you need to employ another person, but cannot afford their wages then I’m pretty sure the margins on your work are not good enough.

Subsidies or government schemes will not solve the problem of low marginss but you can speak with your local Jobcentre as they do have incentive schemes for employers and jobseekers.

[Robert Lambie]

peter. faisal do you both employ staff full time? if so, how many over your time in the sign trade and what was their job role?

mo, the wage you have quoted to expect paying is more than i would pay a general shop body.

as for minimum wages, don’t get me started… i couldn’t give a damn if its law.
staff are entering into an agreement with their employer. that is settled in the interview. in return for a 40hr week they will "work" to the level expected and in return the employer, busy or not, must find that wage.
however, once in the door, the agreement slides fast in favour of the employee and law makes it as difficult as possible to remove them. why? because the employee is great and shouldn’t be replaced? of course not, its because they land back unemployed. costing the government money in supporting them, losing money in them paying their taxes and of course making the government look bad as unemployment rises.

when will the government ever introduce a minimum wage for the employer?

dont get me wrong, there are great staff out there, but these days only 1/10 are worth employing. sad, but true…

i have went the rioute of apprentices, time served staff, even management level from other sign firms, paying what they ask and more… none are still with us. our work force was wound back from around 18-20 staff to 9 some years ago and those still with us i taught from them leaving school till present.

[Lee Attewell]

If you’re employing someone without the skills necessary to jump in and go for it, relieving you immediately then really you have no choice but to pay them the market rate for their time and effort.

Just think if you do employ a skilled worker who can allow you to hit the ground running then surely you’ll more than justify their existence wouldn’t you?

This is what’s happening at my business.

I’ve just taken on an apprentice who has just completed their pre apprenticeship on their own back. Great kid, excellent art skills and is a pleasure to be around. He’s bringing in a certain aspect to our skill base because he’s excellent at graffiti art, his car designs are killer and because he hasn’t done any of this before, he’s not restrained at all.

It’s been really quiet here for the past two months, but I’m not looking back at all. Onward and Upward I say.

[Mo Gillis-Coates]

quote Faisal Ali:

Peter is absolutely right. If you have so much work that you need to employ another person, but cannot afford their wages then I’m pretty sure the margins on your work are not good enough.

Subsidies or government schemes will not solve the problem of low marginss but you can speak with your local Jobcentre as they do have incentive schemes for employers and jobseekers.

Sorry, but I think your a bit out of touch guys, this has nothing to do with margins or paying peanuts, you think 12-15k is peanuts pete for simple job like this? You been self employed too long.

This is totally about cash flow and nothing to do with margins. My margins are perfect to provide me with a functioning business and a "reasonable" income (I’m not getting rich or managing to hoard away money). If I increased margins then I would out price myself. It’s all about output/production.

There is only so much one person can output, to take on one employee costing me 1200 a month, then I need to increase my turnover by approximately 2k a month, so I need to increase sales to cover it. I can’t sell while I’m in production…

Yes Pete, I have plenty of answers when it comes to sales. That’s why my business is expanding after only being open 12 months with nothing more than £500 in my hand when I started it. And I’m moving my business to allow me to work more hours so that I can increase my production, so that I can spend more time on sales, so that I can increase my turnover so that I can afford an employee…. who said anything about a slave?

Rob, in my neck of the woods £12-£15k pa is about right for a semi-skilled labourer. My wife works in London as a secretary, her job if it where full time again, she would be paid about £30-£40k so it’s all relative.

So back to the main topic…..

[David McDonald]

Hi Mo

My sixth employee starts on Monday and I now have a different view on on taking on extra staff compared to my first a few years back.

This may be wrong but I now look at new employees in the same way as buying some new production machinery, ie. what extra revenue will the new machine be able to generate, how will it allow us to be more productive, how will it help us not to miss opportunities, what extra products and services will it be able to make / sell, how much will it reduce current overtime, will it free me up to develop more business (or work less than 70 hours) etc. etc. i.e. will it pay for itself and more?

The best move I ever made was getting my first employee, I wish I’d done it sooner and we’d have grown faster. Within a month he was fully earning his keep.

Cheers
Macky

[Mo Gillis-Coates]

hanks Macky, I think you have hit the nail on the head there, Your dead right, it’s taking that leap of faith that says, right can I get enough sales in by the end of the new staffs fist month to pay me, the overheads and his wages. I’m pretty sure I could BUT…. I don’t like taking chances with things like hat, I would like to know I have it covered without having to run the risk of not covering my own wages…. (I have a family to support at home)

I suppose it’s all about planning and calculated risk!…..But at the same time taking advantages of any schemes that are available would secure a job for someone and possible pave the way for a second employee.

I plan to have about 4-5 staff working in the shop before the end of the financial year

[Robert Lambie]

Mo, i’m a scotsman mate, your paying too much! :lol1:

are you looking at a general general site labourer with their general role of fill bags of sand, cut wood, run here, run there… type apprentice or someone in a sign shop to weed, tape, lay up signs etc? regardless to location, i see a that work a much more physical job that should be rewarded. so yeh, pay whats due.
however, what happened to earn your worth… didnt do any of us lot any harm. i had to leave for work at 5am at 16, walk miles to work. i worked all the overtime hours i could, i remember folk arguing often over who would get the friday and saturday night shifts as the pay was better.
when you wanted to get a rise, you had to more than outshine the others to be noticed. when you did you felt you had achieved something and your rise was a reward.
these days nothing has changed other than how the law dictates we run our business, hire and fire… and PAY
i am rambling here, you may think ive went off on one, (which i have a bit)
:lol1: but all relevent.

what david mcdonald has said is exactly right… however, once you invest £20k on a machine, the machine doesnt start to slow down on production, text its freinds, take days off, fall out with other employees, and god forbid theft from the company.
i am painting a very negative picture of "staff in general" here i know, i do not mean it like that at all. as i said, we have staff, very good staff actually, we all get on a work great together. but there is no point me telling you all the pro’s when the cons are equally, if not more important to you to take into concideration when you first start to employ.

one thing i will say, whoever you employ put them, on a 3 month trial basis with the option to terminate at any point in the duration of the 3 months.
give them a 15minute monday morning interveiw every week to go over what they may not be happy with, (let them spoeak first) but then what "your" not happy with, as far as thei progress, acheivments go.

if you start a complete newbie, and you will be required to not only do all the stuff you already have on your plate, but to now train them to do the job. do not pay them a penny mopre than minimum. after all, are they there to help you, or you them?
all may sound heavy handed i know, but lets keep things realistic.

further more, these placement schemes are great in principle.
6 months free labour and you get a member of staff.
do you think they would be struggl;ing to find work in this day and age if they actually wanted to work? i have tried dozens of them. personally taking them, under my wing, and doing my best to train them.
the funniest one was aboput 6 months ago…
I spent an hour explaining the process of how a simple sign is put together from start to finish. then onto various things like weeding, taping, laying up vinyl. but then stopped, said, "your role" for now, will be laying up work via the "RollsRoller". after showing him how to operate it for about 20 minutes.
i walked away and left him to it with a pile of off-cuts. didnt want to stand over him.
he walked into the reception area with his bag on his shoulder and said, "i am sorry, but this line of work is far too difficult" 😮
my 8 year old little girl uses our roller. her first go she ever had and she laid up a 3×2 of vinyl onto dibond perfectly. a kid, really can use it!!!!

anyway… as i said, this isnt about knocking staff, my negativity is to simply give you food for thoughyt, make you aware there is much more to investing in people than finding a wage.

[Robert Lambie]

Thought this humorous as I had literally walked out my hotel, while down south today after making this post and these two were stood in front of me… What I can only call sign employees where busy doing their job?

Neither noticed the the short ar$ed Scotsman standing 5ft in front of them taking their picture.

Anyway… Let’s hope the poor Employer that can’t make their wages at the end of the week doesn’t get taken to an unfair dismissal tribunal by these pair of hard Workers. 😉

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[Mo Gillis-Coates]

Well just sorted something out based on some of the advice here and with the help of my local CoC…

They can get me funding for an apprentice, but there are no courses for sign making, however they can fund IT & Design…. so there we have it, starting the paperwork next week…

The even better news is, the lad that I have in mind doesn’t have any qualifications, and he is absolutely made up that he may be able to go to college and get some now…. so he’s coming in 2 days a week starting this week to get a head start…

Nice, job done, thanks everyone!

[Robert Lambie]

quote Robert Lambie:

peter. faisal do you both employ staff full time? if so, how many over your time in the sign trade and what was their job role?

(?)

Mo, great to hear you are on your road to employing someone mate.
i do hope it works out well for you.

one thing, they are offering funding to put him through an apprenticeship whilst working for you. does the funding just cover the three full days they are gone, or any other incentive?

do you have any safe guard against the employee leaving you as soon as the apprenticeship is over and you have spent time on training them yourself?

not trying to knock anything here, i guess the main thing is you have an extra pair of hands. just "try" not to let yourself become a stepping stone.

.

[Mo Gillis-Coates]

quote Robert Lambie:

(?)

Mo, great to hear you are on your road to employing someone mate.
i do hope it works out well for you.

one thing, they are offering funding to put him through an apprenticeship whilst working for you. does the funding just cover the three full days they are gone, or any other incentive?

do you have any safe guard against the employee leaving you as soon as the apprenticeship is over and you have spent time on training them yourself?

not trying to knock anything here, i guess the main thing is you have an extra pair of hands. just “try” not to let yourself become a stepping stone.

Thanks Rob, I still have to work out the finer details, so I’m having a meeting later in the week and I will cover what needs to be covered regarding the ongoing working relationship.

Having said that, I’m not really worried about becoming a stepping stone. Whilst I will be trying to create an effective member of my team for the future, if this just becomes a step on the ladder for the lad and he decides to move on to better things, I would be quite happy with that and also with the thought that I had given someone a chance to better themselves and move on. Nothing would give me greater pleasure.

The business will only benefit from the project as it will help pave the way for more employees and growth. I will be in a strong enough financial position at the end of it to find another member of staff to take his place should he decide to take flight. So really it’s a win-win situation.

I’m all for staff retention, but from my own previous experiences I feel that retention is down to me and how I nurture my business and team. High staff turnover comes generally from bad management. Of course there is an element of loyalty required from the employees that you have to make this work, and I have to earn that as an employer. It’s my responsibility to give them a reason to stay, and that isn’t always about being a soft touch or money. I think it’s a bit naive for me to think that because I give them a job and pay a decent wage they should be grateful.

My Father had 12 people working for him and he paid the absolute minimum he could get away with. He kept 10 of them for over 20 years working for him. He was a real sharp tool my dad, he didn’t suffer fools gladly and he drove a hard workshop. But, he was fair, respected, knew how to get the best from his people and how to look after them without being overly generous. Most of all, he knew his team and how each of them worked. No one got asked to do anything that he wasn’t prepared to do himself and if they came up with a new way of doing something that was more effective, he implemented it and rewarded them for their ideas.

No one ever took advantage of him (well never more than once anyway) and he never had to ask any of them to work overtime or to go the extra mile because they always offered first.

If I can find even 10% of the formula that he had, then I will be a very happy man. He’s 86 this year and lives 120 miles away from me. I called him yesterday and he’s driving down on Thursday for a week to help refurb the new workshop and move in…….! At the end of it, he will wash his hands off stay for a cup of tea, pat me on the back and say "well done son" then drive back home again… I still have a lot to learn from the old boy yet!

Like when to shut up maybe (sorry peeps, Big Mo’s off on one again)

😳 😳 😳

[Ian Johnston]

quote Mo Gillis-Coates:

No one ever took advantage of him (well never more than once anyway) and he never had to ask any of them to work overtime or to go the extra mile because they always offered first.

If I can find even 10% of the formula that he had, then I will be a very happy man. He’s 86 this year

Mo sorry to dampen your spirits but unfortunately that’s the old school of employees, the ones who respected their boss, they had to work to get paid hadn’t got the minimum wage to protect their arse.

Today’s employees are nothing like what it was even 20 yrs ago when i started working for someone. Respect no longer exists, they have more rights than you.

I’m only employing people 12 yrs now. I swear i’ll not see another 12 before i’m either locked up for MURDER, or put out of business by bureaucracy

Ian.

[Mo Gillis-Coates]

Hi Ian, yep I can totally see where you are coming from, and I have experienced that also. Your right it’s a completely different ball game now to what it was back "in the day"… I have even seen that with cadet units and other youth groups.

I used to be part of a 100 strong cadet band (dad was the founder of that also) we all went twice a week religiously and also went to engagements at weekends. Mums, dads, kids… we had a complete ball… sadly it disbanded 10 years ago after being around for 25 years… when it finally shut the door it had 8 members. Absolute lack of commitment from anyone…. sad but it’s a sign of the times.

That having been said, I have seen some really really extraordinary companies and small businesses that still win in this arena, and I firmly believe that it can be achieved we just have to find a way that works. Even if the working population has given up, that doesn’t mean I will give up trying. But like my dad, I’m nobody’s fool and I’m quick to spot the problems before they become a problem…

No one will ever dampen my spirits, we never fail but sometimes we don’t get the outcome that we want. Those with dampened spirits often stop at this point. But the thick skinned idiots like me look for another way to finish.

Thanks for the heads up anyway…. let me know if you make it to broadmoor! I find a foot on the throat is most effective, and works wonders when done in front of their colleagues! or as alan sugar always says…. your (:)

[Michael Winfield]

This has been an interesting read!

Currently I work for a building suppliers in their sign department and I’m not enjoying it. The company is started been taken over by the next generation who seem to be making one bad decision after another. Back in January I started my own sign company to make some extra money in my own time, like these things do its grown and it taking up pretty much all my spare time.

So my mind has been wondering about going it alone, but I’m not sure if I’ll be able to get enough work to pay the bills (I’m sure this is a worry many of you has had on here). A supplier I use was saying he’s thinking about taking someone on but he didn’t want to take them on full time. So I’ve been thinking about going to him with a proposal of me working for him self employed with a fixed hourly rate when he needs me and working for myself when I’m not working with him.

Is this something you guys would think about if someone came to you with this type of offer?

Mikey

[Mo Gillis-Coates]

quote Michael Winfield:

This has been an interesting read!

Currently I work for a building suppliers in their sign department and I’m not enjoying it. The company is started been taken over by the next generation who seem to be making one bad decision after another. Back in January I started my own sign company to make some extra money in my own time, like these things do its grown and it taking up pretty much all my spare time.

So my mind has been wondering about going it alone, but I’m not sure if I’ll be able to get enough work to pay the bills (I’m sure this is a worry many of you has had on here). A supplier I use was saying he’s thinking about taking someone on but he didn’t want to take them on full time. So I’ve been thinking about going to him with a proposal of me working for him self employed with a fixed hourly rate when he needs me and working for myself when I’m not working with him.

Is this something you guys would think about if someone came to you with this type of offer?

Mikey

Hi Mikey, in a nutshell………. Nope! To many risk factors for me. Total conflict of interests. There aren’t many companies that I know of that would do this either….. If you are in the same line of business you either work for me or yourself, I wouldn’t have both!

[Michael Winfield]

Yeah I can see why you’d say that. I don’t think there would be that much conflict in interest really because my company is based 25miles away from my supplier.

[Mo Gillis-Coates]

quote Michael Winfield:

Yeah I can see why you’d say that. I don’t think there would be that much conflict in interest really because my company is based 25miles away from my supplier.

Sorry I just read that again, when you say "supplier" is this another sign making shop or a material supplier?

[Michael Winfield]

He does both, he has a sign company and a materials company. From what I can tell he spends most of his time on the materials side of things.

[Mo Gillis-Coates]

If it was just materials it would be ok, but even at 25 miles I would still consider it a conflict of interests….. but give it a try, he can only say no!

I would 😉

[Michael Winfield]

Thanks Mo you’ve filled me full of confidence 😀