some recent jobs

[Martin Pearson]

Tim, I won’t comment on designs if you already know where you are going wrong but just remember when a customer tells you they want it made bigger you have to try to show them or explain to them that it actually looks a lot better with a bit of space around it. Still their choice at the end of the day but at least you know you have tried to do your best for them.

As for pricing I think you have still got it seriously wrong if the guy paid £120 for that Vivaro. Your right it’s not the customers fault you are slow and believe me you will get quicker the more you do and you will also find designing in general gets quicker to although there will always be the odd job that you just can’t seem to get looking right!!!
Round this way prices seem to be on the cheaper side going by what some others in different parts of the UK charge but even round this way what you charged would be very cheap for a job like that.

[Peter Normington]

Got to agree with Martin Tim,

don’t under price your work, but you should be looking at fitting times off only a couple of hours max for those jobs, how is it taking you so long?
Can you explain how you fit, step by step? perhaps we good give you some tips to fit quicker?

Peter

[Jill Marie Welsh]

They look to be worth far more than what you are charging, Tim.
At minimum I get about $600 for a van…in pounds, that’s almost 300.
Never sell yourself short.
The one crit I can see is the huge phone number on the fuel delivery van.
But I think your work is pretty clean for the most part!
Love…..Jill

[Scott.Evans]

tim iam a beginner and it would probably take me about 8 hours (best part of a day) to prep van cut & apply.
will agree with others on price (to cheap)
i would charge from 180-200.
and that is under the rate in my area.
like the vivaro design.
😀

[Peter Normington]

quote Peter Normington:

Got to agree with Martin Tim,

don’t under price your work, but you should be looking at fitting times off only a couple of hours max for those jobs, how is it taking you so long?
Can you explain how you fit, step by step? perhaps we good give you some tips to fit quicker?

Peter

Sorry Tim, when you say "fitting" does that include cutting?

even so 4 hours, or so should be your target,
anyway you and Scot have both under priced work recently, as we all have done at some time, at least you have the benefit of being able to ask others for advice, and learn.

Peter

[Ian Johnston]

tim,
i’m in northern ireland also and just as a guide for you, the vivaro i would have been £325 – 350 + vat the transit £285-300 + vat
don’t be a busy fool, it doesn’t pay your bill’s or your competiors by under cutting them,

p.s not bad for your first jobs,

Ian

[TimDouglas]

Thanks for your comments, yeah think pricing is cheap, Now that i have bit of experience i can maybe come up with a better pricing, Yep I have been flat out and not really seeing the financial reward yet. I would hate to actually think what I’m making per hour. I don’t mind as I get silly money in my day job but we are moving our factory to India in January so i only have my job for one year after to support the move, after that i don’t want to have to do the interviews,working for someone else + traveling to work anymore.Hopefully then i will be established and fully kitted out. Forgot to say i done the two berlingos for £150!!

How i completed the vans so far.

1.Design concept
2. Once im happy with it start to sort out each colour to get as much from my vinyl as possible and start cutting.
3. With 2 / 3 layer stuff it takes a little longer
4. Weed everything
5. Re cut anything i damaged!
6. Apply application tape – Using large bench + roller ( great job for one man band )
7. Tackle the large ( main focal points ) sides
8. Complete sides fully
9. Move to front and back
10. Forgot wash van first + IPA of hard spots. Like to leave the van clean not just the areas I’m working on .

Think where i loose time is setting it all to cut ( making weed boxes etc ) double checking ( I use impacts disc but still nervous )
Then applying application tape, i go slow to get it correct ( sometimes i do nothing different and i get mini bubbles and sometimes perfect) ( sometimes perfect on application tape and bad on van )
Then as i hang up before fitting i measure , measure and re- measure again.
Also my cutter / computer etc is in spare room , then workshop is garage. Would like to put all together and have the room but read somewhere about possible damp. I have it fitted out with TV and radio ( there fine ) Small carrying time? Then when i go to fit I also leave something i need scissors or something on the bench! Also i only have one large set of steps so I’m up and down it . Tressles maybe help that.

Really struggle to see how anyone could fit it in a couple of hours ( No one in a sign shop would hire me going on my times eh?? )

Thanks again
Tim

[Gareth.Lewis]

Tim,

Some nice work there. Believe me, you WILL be fitting a complete van (one colour, no layers or shadows, 2 sides, back and front) in an hour or so inc. cleaning soon enough! You’ll be doing it with your eyes shut as well. And your weed and tape time will be about half of that fitting time too. I can’t comment on the cutting as your plotter may take longer or less long than mine. Up your prices a chunk – they can only say no (which most won’t). Good luck!

Cheers,

Gareth

[Neil Davey]

Tim,

Your work looks good, I think you just need to get more organized for fitting. I have a tool box in the van which contains everything I need on site. In fact I have two of everything, one set I keep in the workshop and the other in the van, saves having to go back for things.
I also have a tool holder that clips on my belt so my squeegees, knife, tape, bubble popping tool is all to hand. This is very useful for any type of fitting and is great when doing trucks as you’re constantly on steps or trestles.

Another favorite is a wallpaper pasting table that I use on site to place the vinyls on.

I take two stepladders, one 5 step and one 9 step which I can reach the top of trucks off of.

I have a small collapsible ‘hop-up.

I have pressure bottles filled with soapy water and clean for rinsing before starting work.

Tell us how you fit, we maybe able to give you a few tips.

Neil

[Peter Normington]

Am I missing something here? I thought it was only Rob who needed ladders to fit decals to a transit!

Peter

[Neil Davey]

Peter,

I think Rob uses a tower scaffold 😉

Neil

[Phill Fenton]

I can only re-iterate what everyone else has already said. Your work is fine and you will get a lot quicker with practice. Just need to increase your prices to allow yourself to make a decent living when you leave your current job next year.

Good luck 😀

[keri baslow]

quote timdouglas:

10. Forgot wash van first + IPA of hard spots. Like to leave the van clean not just the areas I’m working on .

Tim

Always insist vehicles turn up ready washed and clean, not always ideal with the British weather, we add £45.00 + VAT if vehicle needs washing beyond what is acceptable, remember you’re a sign maker , not a valeter , do not waste your time on cleaning their vehicles

[Phill Fenton]

Whilst I agree with your sentiment Keri (nothing annoys me more than being left with a filthy van to put signs on) I have come to the conclusion that an easy way to "delight the customer and exceed their expectations " is to completely transform the vehicle when it is being signed. If this means spending an extra 5 minutes cleaning areas of the van where no signs are being fitted, then I consider it to be worthwhile.

Remember, the "lazy van driver" that drops the vehicle off is not necessarily the bill payer. So if you can get maximum impact by spending a few more minutes in cleaning and trasnforming the appearance of the vehicle then I think it’s probably worth doing it to "impress" your customer more.

Believe me – I used to get very p1ssed off at the state of some of the vehicles that get left with me to get signs fitted – nowadays I see it as an opportunity to produce maximum impact when the client sees the van transformed from dirty vehicle to mobile advert.

Just make sure you build a good price into your quote to cover the time you might have to spend cleaning

[Chris Wool]

quote :

Always insist vehicles turn up ready washed and clean, not always ideal with the British weather, we add £45.00 + VAT if vehicle needs washing beyond what is acceptable

i guess you don’t do many vans or you have wonderful customers.

pill said the rest

chris

[Chris Wool]

quote :

Just done a national fleet of over 300 with another 50 HGV to arrive?
If they’re not clean(ish), they’re charged

thats fair enough and why you can get away with it. i think we were generally speaking about the smaller sign person.

chris

[Peter Shaw]

Tim, I think the vans look pretty good and a damn sight better than some of the other start-up examples that have been shown here.

I was puzzled as to how you can spend so much time per van and wonder if you are being too cautious. There is a balance between a perfectly good standard and perfection and the difference between the 2 is not time but profit.

When it comes to fitting to the vehicles try this: give yourself 10 minutes for each small piece and 20 minutes for each large piece. This is from approaching the van with the piece to standing back and admiring it. Be conscious of the time limit and I’ll bet you’ll automatically speed up and get as good a job. 10 minutes is a long time to fit, say, a phone number but its a lot faster than you seem to be doing at the moment.

Good luck

Peter

[Martin Pearson]

Tim, it’s one thing to say that you don’t mind about the money because you have a well paying job at the moment but what happens when you want to move over to doing this full time?
You may have built up a customer base by then but how do you explain to a customer that his next van is going to cost him 3 times the price he paid for the last one.

The other problem you may find is that all the customers that you do have are the wrong sort of customer. By that what I mean is that you will have built up a customer base of people who all expect you to work for next to nothing and have no loyalty to you, they just want the cheapest price they can get and if the guy up the road is 50p cheaper then they will go there leaving you with no customers.

The other thing to think about is that you may get a reputation for being cheap which might put the sort of businesses you actually want as customers off because they will be more interested in quality than price and they won’t believe you can deliver the good to the level of quality they want.

[TimDouglas]

Yeah will have to make sure I do these jobs for a healthy profit and not just to break even… Well the two berlingos as turned into me doing there rally car now and the Hutcheon fuels van has got me there 2nd oil lorry to do, there first lorry was £400 so i need to come in below that I’m thinking, Not alot to fit to it but large Names / Numbers which I already have designed.

All advice welcome. thanks for the comments

[Martin Pearson]

Is what is going on their second lorry the same as the first and is it the same size? Make sure you are quoting like for like plus how long ago was it done? Might be that prices have gone up since it was done.
Don’t think about being cheaper than someone else all the time either, you want to build the business on quality not price. That way you end up with a much better customer base with Companies that are prepared to pay a bit extra for quality and are also a bit more loyal provided you continue to provide a good service at a fair price.

[Neil Davey]

Have a bit of respect for yourself Tim, you don’t need to go in lower just to get the job. If the work is worth more then charge more and if they say they can get it cheaper down the road suggest to them that they go there.

You’re in business to make money too!

Neil

[TimDouglas]

Yeah its the same designs wants to keep the two the same. There first lorry is done about a year ago. Name and number up each side and front and back. Is it fair off me to to charge what 10 year plus sign makers charge + there overheads + employees? I realize that what they have is what I’m aiming for.There is two sign shops about 10 mile radius to me. One in each direction. I work from my home workshop with little overheads.

[Jon Marshall]

Your work looks good for a newbie but definitely WAY underpriced. You have the makings of a good signwriter so get a reputation for good work now rather than cheap work.

If you’re worried about getting bubbles when fitting it may be that you are being too careful and going too slowly. You need to be firm and confident when fitting and you’ll find that makes it much quicker as well.