Site Signage: Alanwater Homes

[Phill Fenton]

Great work Rob – that 2nd sign is massive, did you put a beacon on top to warn off low flying aircraft.

Seriously though – well done

:appl: :appl:

[Graeme Harrold]

Its only 4’x10’…………………Rob is holding it up :lol1: :lol1:

Ill get me jacket before my account is suspended 😮

[Robert Lambie]

thanks phill… 😀

Graeme, the guy in the picture is David, hes actually 6’4". i come up to his knee. 😀

[Lorraine Clinch]

Not bad for a rush job Rob!

My Dad was born in Alloa.

[Ian Jenkin]

work like that looks familiar Rob.

Our main customer is a house builder, and im used to the phone call on a Thursday saying they have directors site visits on a friday and need 18 new signs made and fitted!

Nice work!

[Graeme Harrold]

quote Robert Lambie:

thanks phill… 😀

Graeme, the guy in the picture is David, hes actually 6’4″. i come up to his knee. 😀

:lol1: :lol1: :lol1:

[Chris J Giles]

Cracking job Rob, another professional looking install. Did you round-corner the Dibond?

[Martin Oxenham]

Rob is this Dibond or ally. Either way I always think it looks better and from the publics point of view safer to round the corners.
If its Dibond how do you go about fitting your chanels.

[Robert Lambie]

Chris, Martin… nop, corners are not rounded. our corner cutting die for signs of this size is done/blunt. stopped using it just before Christmas. have been meaning to Oder one but planned to hold out till sign UK to see if i could get a good deal on a more robust one than what we have. we do still have a small die for cutting the corners but not for this type of signage.

to be honest, as much as i know the reasons for it. i am not keen on "the look" of large rounded corners on signs.

we did some aluminum, channel and clip school signs on posts this week, but we did round the corners on them. but they were cut by jigsaw and filed down.

Martin the signs are all composite board. the channel is fixed onto the composite by 4-5inch strips of 3M VHB tape accompanied by a rivet every strip. this is more a belt and braces procedure when using the likes of dibond/aluminum. particularly with composite board, the VHB + Rivet helps spread the pressure load on fixing area because composite tends to be a soft substrate and the rivets can be torn through the face of the sign in high winds.

[Peter Normington]

Good work Rob
Not sure If I would be confident on the large sign withstanding a high wind though, What size poles did you use?

Peter

[Robert Lambie]

Not sure the pole sizes for the big sign peter because, although i did all the others, i did not install those posts, though i think they were 5 metre posts. [those ones were existing posts]

we were replacing the signs on a like for like basis, i.e. composite board.
so i had to take the big one down and replace with ours. the sign i took down was composite and although badly made, it was still in perfect condition and was about a year old. in fact, the posts were pretty badly put in too and gave me allot of greif trying to get the panels to close up properly. i also think there should have been 6 posts in place rather than their 5. again, this was another time consuming pain in the rear because i think 2 posts should have been removed and reinstalled with new plus one extra. but anyway, as i said, this was a rush job and we had only a few days to print, fabricate and install.

the large V-shaped one i am putting up this week will be done using our own posts so should be easier installing.

The VHB tape coupled with rivets is a very good bond and has never let me down yet peter. [touch wood] :lol1:

[Peter Normington]

Rob, not concerned about the panels, just that posts of that size, can easily just bend at the base in a high wind. there is no bracing to the rear, as with a diagonal strut from about the centre of the post to the ground,the force of leverage even with a light wind load, would be quite high.
just thought it should be pointed out, as anyone doing the same sort of job, with that post arrangement, could be liable if it failed.

I am quite suprised that you fitted the panels to what could be an unsafe installation?

Peter

[Phill Fenton]

As signmakers we’re faced with these types of scenarios all the time. It’s easy to be critical of someone else’s work without knowing all the circumstances.

In this example you don’t know what diameter the posts are and whether they are steel or aluminium. I suspect they are 112mm dia. (judging by comparison to the lampost on the right which is a 136mm dia. post) and as a consequence I would consider they are more than adequate.

Secondly – the client has specified he wanted new panels fitted to an existing post arrangement. At what point do we question the clients rights to replace panels on an existing set of posts with a like for like arrangement.? Had Rob turned around to the client and said "I’m sorry but the posts are not up to handling the size of signs being fitted – the client woud have laughed and said – they’ve been up for more than a year now without any problems – if you don’t want to do it I’ll get someone else that does.

Peter said:-
"I am quite suprised that you fitted the panels to what could be an unsafe installation?"

I think you owe Rob an apology. You do not know that this is an unsafe arrangement (you do not know what diameter of posts are used, and whether they are steel or aluminium).

Sometimes I think it would be better if you just kept your gob shut 😕

[Peter Normington]

Phill

yes, I am being critical, (is that not one of the reason we show our work to others) the poles look insufficient for the area of the sign,
Rob is quite capable of answering my questions, and justifiying his reasons for doing the job as it was done, as it is, if you can quote the wind loadings relevant to the signage area, and fulcrum load at the base of the poles, I will bow to your better judgement,
I dont see a need to apologies, for stating my concerns about safe installation, if the posts are sufficient, thats fine, if the posts bend next time there is a high wind, who will be responsible?
Assuming Rob has used 4, 2440×1220 sheets for the large sign, the posts appear to be no more than 95mm, the picture is easily scaled up to calculate this.

Just because the signs have been there for over a year is no reason to assume they will stay there for another year.

Rob has stated the posts were not fitted to his satisfaction, hence my suprise that he fitted the panels anyway.

Peter

[Robert Lambie]

Hi Peter

Your correct the poles were not fitted to my satisfaction. but that does not mean i considered them unsafe in anyway, I do not know where you got that from mate.

There were a series of sign erections which required poles to be installed.
The large one didn’t, we only had to take down the old and fit the new panels, "as instructed".
when i arrived on site i noticed 2 of the 5 posts where slightly "out of line" that’s why i commented about the install as i would rather have replaced two. because two were out of line it created allot of problems trying to align the new panels to close up tight when forming the jigsaw, so to speak.

there was only 5 posts, where i would have used 6.
Basically the sign is made up of 4no. 10"x5′ panels stacked in pairs of two.
I would use 3 posts to hold the two panels on the right and 3 posts the panels on the left.
the lack of a post in the middle meant that the four panels "shared" the middle post.
the only way we could acheive the installation was by copying what had been in place before and that was by interlocking the sign channel on the rear by about 3-4ft. [which was not necssarily an issue as we were copying previous signage]

In a nutshell, the signs themself were very secure and fabricated well, "by us"
but the way the former sign company had erected the sign gave "US" installation problems on that one sign, nothing more.

The sign that was up before ours was the exact same size and had been up a "minimum" of a year. it is in a remote area and completely exposed to winds without ANY problems at all. so the wind load should be fine as its been "tried and tested", even if not complying with the whole wind load calculation theory.
further more, if it does not hold its own and the posts bend/lean back in a freak storm because of how another sign company installed them. then that does not make "us" liable to fix it, we manufactured and installed "the panels" on a like for like basis "as instructed".

To reiterate…
We are instructed to manufacture and install various signage on a "like for like" basis of existing signage already in place for a minimum of a year.
We are given a time window for the entire production to installation of less than 5 working days.
We successfully made the installation deadline and secured a further order which was also completed today in time for the easter bank holiday.

I am more than confident that anything we provided as a company will be
100% satisfactory to our customers request.

i have attached some pictures. one poor quality from a phone.
the pictures are of the last install this week.

one shows a post in place.
the other shows the two latest signs "same as the big one being discussed" but this one with a 6th pole as i advised, even though it is two sep signs.
And the other picture is just a picture of the steel pins we drill and put through posts as it really does aid the stability of the post. im sure i mentioned this prior or in another thread. 😀

.

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[Phill Fenton]

Nice one Rob.

Is it just me or do others get "butterflies" in their stomach on the morning of a major install?

Whenever I have a job to do that is quite involved (as this one obviously was) I usually wake up at about 5am worrying what the weather is going to be like, thinking through all the steps required for the install, and trying to anticipate any problems. In a situation like this where you are given a deadline (Easter Weekend) and the job obviously requires a relatively wind free day you must have been concerned that circumstances outwith your control would prevent you from meeting the deadline. I’m pleased you got it finished today, and if you’re anything like me, I bet you drove home feeling elated at a job well done :thumbup2:

I have a job to do on Tuesday that is giving me a few restless nights – I’ll report back on Wednesday on how the install went 😕

[Warren Beard]

quote Phill:

Nice one Rob.

Is it just me or do others get “butterflies” in their stomach on the morning of a major install?

Whenever I have a job to do that is quite involved (as this one obviously was) I usually wake up at about 5am worrying what the weather is going to be like, thinking through all the steps required for the install, and trying to anticipate any problems. In a situation like this where you are given a deadline (Easter Weekend) and the job obviously requires a relatively wind free day you must have been concerned that circumstances outwith your control would prevent you from meeting the deadline. I’m pleased you got it finished today, and if you’re anything like me, I bet you drove home feeling elated at a job well done :thumbup2:

I have a job to do on Tuesday that is giving me a few restless nights – I’ll report back on Wednesday on how the install went 😕

Yeah I do but have to say haven’t really done anything very big yet but got one coming up soon that is making me poo a little 🙄 , you’ll all be sure to hear about it in a few weeks time 😳

[Steve McAdie]

I do as well Phill, trying to anticipate every possibility, going over checking everything is on the van then double checking. Still manage to forget things though. Once I’m there and get started I’m fine. Not done any major jobs as such but when your on your own even relativly small jobs can be demanding for one pair of hands.

Steve