Should I use Cast or Polymeric Vinyl on this?

[Ian Johnston]

Avery 700 is ideal

Ian

[Gwaredd Steele]

David, FWIW I use Avery 600 for the majority of my work, as it’s cheaper & brilliant to work with. IMO, unless there’s deep recesses, using 700 (especially if you have to order it in) is a bit like giving a pig a strawberry for this type of work.

[Chris Wool]

quote :

bit like giving a pig a strawberry

thats no way to talk about one of Brittan’s finest designed and built motor vehicles.

[David Hammond]

Ahh I need to investigate this.

I’ve only recently changed to RH, as I don’t pay delivery and are only round the corner :lol1:

I always used Metamark series 7.

Avery 700 is great and I must admit nice to work with, and about 20p dearer a meter.

I will get a sample of the 600 and give that a go. Is that like avery’s version of Metamarks series 4???

[Robert Lambie]

In that case, Oracal 551 mate, no sweat… 😀

[Martin Pearson]

I don’t use Avery vinyl so not sure what the difference between the 600 & 700 is but if it is similar to Oracal and their 651 & 551 materials then I don’t see the point in keeping the cheaper version. I use 551 for pretty much everything I do as it is suitable for pretty much everything I do. Yes I would get away with using the 651 for a lot of the jobs but there isn’t a huge difference in the price per metre and it means I only have to worry about stocking one type of vinyl.

[David Hammond]

I carry very little stock. My plan was to start ordering vinyl (metamark series 7) in to get my orders over £100 for free delivery.

However, Robert Horne have given me a great price on Avery vinyl, the rep should call in an see me soon, to talk about oracal. Main reason for the change is there’s no delivery, I can collect 9am the next day.

I can stock a small choice of vinyl for little jobs, and order in for larger orders.

I decided it was easier to stock the better vinyl, as you said martin it can be used for everything.

I can certainly see RH supplying my vinyl, but oracal or avery??? 😕

[Denise Goodfellow]

Hi David

I think its a fact of life you need to carry stock of vinyl. OK you could order just 10 meters of what ever you want at the time, but the postage and minimum order will soon kill the price of the some jobs.

Be brave and order full or 25 m rolls of colour. On the first couple of jobs you won`t be making much, but it`ll some come together. You`ll be able to do jobs quicker as the vinyl will be already on the shelf. We stock a good all rounder, and order vinyl in for the more complicated jobs.

Personally we don`t show the customer a colour chart, purely because they are bound to chose a colour we don`t have in stock.

We ask what colours they would like and then show them the nearest colour we have.

Only when they still want a certain colour do we pull out the swatch, but we always state that if you chose a colour we don`t stock then the price will go up.

Orical 651 in my opinion is alittle too stiff, 551 if great.

For a smaller sign company chosing your supplier is sometime dictated on what other products they sell as you can combine order of various things to meet minimum orders and free delivery targets.

I ordered something last week and was approx £10 under the free delivery target, the seller ask if I wanted him to adjust the total price till it meet the free delivery total…….. As thats what other folk do!!! I just replyed add some squeegees until it meets the amount required.. i personally thought that was rather a rip off remark!

and can anyone tell me why i`m up so blooody early on a Saturday LOL

(Xmas shopping bar humbug LOL)

[Robert Lambie]

A good all rounder is Oracal 551. better still, 751c…

my understanding is Oracal 551 is based on the old Oracal 751 which in its day, "in my opinion" was one of the best calendered vinyls on the market.
751c was "improved" on and became a cast vinyl, but still keeping its old price tag. 551 moved in and filled the old 751 slot.

I know some folk were not keen on the new 751c as it gave them application difficulties. the problem wasnt the vinyl, it did react different but no different to most cast films. it was more folk were epxecting it to still handle the same as it did before the change.
anyway… Oracal 551 filled its boots, so if what has to be the best priced "cast" films on the market isnt your cuppa tea, move to 551 which is cheaper again. but still a great product.

[David Hammond]

Cheers for the advice.

I have old rolls of vinyl kicking around, some oracal 551. It must be 10 year old though!

My plan is to bin it all, free up my rack, and stock some general all rounder vinyl, as denise said. I just don’t know which one to stock.

I didn’t think RH had a minimum order??

My other supplier of substrates, banner and paper are almost next door to RH, so again no delivery there too, and excellent prices.

I will speak with my RH rep and see if I can make a choice. My main selling point is that I do guarantee the vinyl – because I know I am using a top product, and won’t shrink/fall off any time soon.

[Robert Lambie]

In the past 2 years i have switched to keeping full and half rolls in stock always, too 10 metres on most, 25 metres on popular and 50 metres on most used.
most of the cut vinyl is Oracal 551, but also use 3M 50 series "i think it is" on occasion. when delivery is next day, it makes sense, rather than sitting on allot of stock, particularly over winter as sever cold can effect the vinyls unless in a temperature controlled room.

Digital media, Mostly Oracal again, but also 3M and the odd time Grafityp and Metamark.

[Shane Drew]

quote Robert Lambie:

A good all rounder is Oracal 551. better still, 751c…

my understanding is Oracal 551 is based on the old Oracal 751 which in its day, “in my opinion” was one of the best calendered vinyls on the market.
751c was “improved” on and became a cast vinyl, but still keeping its old price tag. 551 moved in and filled the old 751 slot.

I know some folk were not keen on the new 751c as it gave them application difficulties. the problem wasnt the vinyl, it did react different but no different to most cast films. it was more folk were epxecting it to still handle the same as it did before the change.
anyway… Oracal 551 filled its boots, so if what has to be the best priced “cast” films on the market isnt your cuppa tea, move to 551 which is cheaper again. but still a great product.

I agree with that Rob. Rumour has it that 751c is actually 3M 7725 cast with Orafol adhesive. I’ve used 3M 7725 a fair bit, and it goes on and reacts exactly the same as 751c, so I’d not be surprised at all. I’ve asked the question of Oracal here, and they’d ‘rather not comment’, which isn’t a denial in my book! 😎 551 is a great all round product, very similar to the 3M series 50…. nudge nudge wink wink..

[David Hammond]

My office is pretty much constant temperature, so stocks no problem.

I don’t use much cut vinyl – probably because I don’t stock it. I did get black and white in which I have used.

I used metamark for everything. Only recently have I looked at alternatives. There’s money to be saved by changing suppliers. Yes metamarks poster paper is very nice, but my customers don’t care, its down to price.

To me anyway to save on postage is a winner, often a saving of £10 per order.

I want to change and make the savings, but not loose quality make life harder for me.

I will certainly stock 610 rolls of black, white, blue, red, and collect other ‘usable’ colours along the way. Do I stock 1220 rolls too?

I will certainly look at oracal vinyl, and speak with robert horne, and hopfully make a decision. I think I will continue with Metamarks MD5 digital vinyl.

[Robert Lambie]

we only stock full width rolls of everything. if you have the full width machines, buy full width as its cheaper than 610. by that i mean, twice the width isnt twice the price.

[Martin Pearson]

David, what width you stock is something you will need to work out for yourself, my plotter only cuts just over a metre wide but even if it took a full width roll I doubt I would stock 1260 wide.

Robert only stocks full width rolls because he finds them to be more cost effective, maybe because he is a larger sign company or the type of work he is doing. I find that a 630 wide roll is about the right size for the work I generally do so stock 630 wide and buy in wider if I need to.

[David Hammond]

The major issue I have is space.

I have space to store 610 rolls on my racks, so would be easier. I rarely use 1220 width unless its a big van/sign. My stock mainly gets used on those smaller jobs,

Hmmm lots I have to think about.

[Gwaredd Steele]

Avery 600 is 5-7 year vinyl & I rate it very highly. It’s slightly thicker than the 700, but that works in its favour sometimes, like putting a yellow letter over a black solid. The 600 retains its colour whereas the 700 will change slightly due to the thinness & the black coming through.

Good thing is though, all the colours from the 600 match the 700, so if you do need to go round a few curves, you only have to order what you need of the 700 to match the existing 600.

However, I’ve never had an issue with the 600 for over 5 years now, & I’ve taken the P with it regarding panel curvature!

For general signage & vehicle graphics, I can’t recommend it highly enough.

G.

[David Hammond]

Cheers Gwaredd.

I will certainly be looking at changing.

I’ve just done some maths and I could have saved over £200 last year by changing suppliers on two of my products. 😮

Savings are to be made.

[Gwaredd Steele]

If it saves you money…

This is an example of taking the P with Avery 600. Completely beyond its design limits I know, but its stayed put for 2 years now!

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[Mo Gillis-Coates]

quote David Hammond:

I have old rolls of vinyl kicking around, some oracal 551. It must be 10 year old though!

My plan is to bin it all, free up my rack

Dont you dare mate…… get it down to your local pre school play group and give it to them, the kids will love you for it, hang around and make some freinds… you never know you may just pick up a few jobs too 😉 (smade me a few quid, just about to deliver another 200 tshirts and sweatshirts next week to them and another couple of banners)

[David Hammond]

ordered in the avery 600 the client wanted.

I intend to apply the lettering dry, will probably do piece the job together on my bench first? Or do it wet on the van?

Plan on putting the stripe together on the bench and applying wet?

My concern is putting lettering above the cab? How do I reach there?

Any opinions welcome!

[Rachel Oakley]

Hello David

For Avery 600 HP film we recommend dry apply. (Actually for all Avery films we recommend dry apply).

We do have technical bulletins to help with the installation, you can download them from the product page here
http://www.europe.averygraphics.com/mai … ProdID=630

With kind regards

Rachel Oakley
Senior European Product Manager
Avery Dennison Graphics and Reflective Solutions.

[David Hammond]

Hi Rachel.

Thanks for the link will look tomorrow when back in the office.

I usually install dry, this job requires overlaying, and a few large stripes right down the side.

Got another job where I think a cast will be required?? Going right across the panels on the back of a kangoo van.