Roland, few problems

[Martin Armitage]

If there are problems with the test print, then your machine is not going to print properly, I should try giving it a clean again.

[Jonathan McGovern]

on my vp540, after you have done a test print, and there is a dark line or gap through the colour boxes, you have to calibrate, try going to menu, then calibration, the setting, the screen may say +10% for example, knock it right up and do another test print, if its worst your going wrong way (you should have plus and minus) so just work back the precentage until you have no gaps, if that doesn’t work then thats me stumped.

good luck

jof

[Ben.Dexter]

yeah i thoguht that,but as i say..these house numbers seem to be printing perfectly?

when i print a test print,all the red lines are their,and yellow,but black has around %60 of the lines totaly missing…would you say that is a simple cleaning job or is their a problem with the heads?

Thanks again,

[Ian Bingham]

sounds like it might have had a head strike on the black side, try flush, some times if its setup right, just printing a lot helps too
Ian

[Ben.Dexter]

Hi,

Can you explain what a flush is please?

Thanks,

[David Rogers]

Can only base it on my Cadet Plus (Versacamm 540V)

Which cleaning method are you using?

Manual (hold down CLEAN & POWER at startup) then clean all the gubbings & wipe the head (NOT scrub) with a soaked VERY clean, new swab. (As per maintenance manual).

..or are you just pressing CLEAN once it’s running.

If after three CLEANS it’s still patchy, best to do a head soak for a few hours…then a few more cleaning runs to purge any solvent from the heads.

If THAT doesn’t sort it, it’s onto manual head flushing (ink feed lines off & solvent pushed through if memory serves) / POWERFUL CLEAN.

ps. it’s not uncommon for solid black prints to be perfectly OK even with a few missing nozzles depending on what temp & material your are using.

[Peter Normington]

quote Custom-Pixels:

Hi,

Can you explain what a flush is please?

Thanks,

Its when you pull the chain.

sorry, bit sarcastic I know, but using someone elses machine on an ad-hoc basis is asking for trouble, what happens if you screw it up? Will you be able to carry on? or will you fork out for your own printer.
Cant the man who owns it sort it out?

You dont have a clue about it, and I dont mean any disrespect by saying that.
To be honest. I think you really need to learn the basics before trying to make a living from something you know nothing about.

just my take,

Peter

Peter

[Peter Normington]

quote David Rogers:

Can only base it on my Cadet Plus (Versacamm 540V)

Which cleaning method are you using?

Manual (hold down CLEAN & POWER at startup) then clean all the gubbings & wipe the head (NOT scrub) with a soaked VERY clean, new swab. (As per maintenance manual).

..or are you just pressing CLEAN once it’s running.

If after three CLEANS it’s still patchy, best to do a head soak for a few hours…then a few more cleaning runs to purge any solvent from the heads.

If THAT doesn’t sort it, it’s onto manual head flushing (ink feed lines off & solvent pushed through if memory serves) / POWERFUL CLEAN.

ps. it’s not uncommon for solid black prints to be perfectly OK even with a few missing nozzles depending on what temp & material your are using.

Dave, have you had to do all that? thought your machine was fairly new?

Peter

[David Rogers]

quote Peter Normington:

quote David Rogers:

Can only base it on my Cadet Plus (Versacamm 540V)

Which cleaning method are you using?

Manual (hold down CLEAN & POWER at startup) then clean all the gubbings & wipe the head (NOT scrub) with a soaked VERY clean, new swab. (As per maintenance manual).

..or are you just pressing CLEAN once it’s running.

If after three CLEANS it’s still patchy, best to do a head soak for a few hours…then a few more cleaning runs to purge any solvent from the heads.

If THAT doesn’t sort it, it’s onto manual head flushing (ink feed lines off & solvent pushed through if memory serves) / POWERFUL CLEAN.

ps. it’s not uncommon for solid black prints to be perfectly OK even with a few missing nozzles depending on what temp & material your are using.

Dave, have you had to do all that? thought your machine was fairly new?

Peter

God no!!! Most I’ve had to do is hit CLEAN twice as I’d left it for about three days…no, wait, I did do a head soak once but ‘fixed’ it by changing the ink cart (???) – black test print was about 50% there…new cart (old one was all but empty)…perfect again.

As for flushes – the service engineer gave me a good run through of pretty much anything & everything that can go wrong (including potentially breaking the dampers during this operation) 😳 …good lad.

[Ben.Dexter]

Thanks for your input Peter,

The owner has been simply pressing CLEAN while the machine is running,Could you run me thru how to flush the head please David? I don’t think it’s mentioned in the manual?

Thanks again,

[David Rogers]

quote Custom-Pixels:

Thanks for your input Peter,

The owner has been simply pressing CLEAN while the machine is running,Could you run me thru how to flush the head please David? I don’t think it’s mentioned in the manual?

Thanks again,

Before you go flushing (and maybe breaking something) – try a head soak. (I think that should be in the manual).

Hold CLEAN & then POWER together. Goes into cleaning maintenance. Remove maintenance cover when prompted, move the head over to the left. Clean all four SIDES of the heads & use the (option to clean / change wipers) up & Down arrows move wipers in & out for cleaning – clean the silicon wipers. Cleaning finished…machine powers down.

MANUALLY, with POWER OFF. Use the tool to wind down the capping stations – push head over to left to gain access. CLAMP off the drain pipes and fill the caps with cleaning solution. Push head back in place and MANUALLY wind the caps back in place. Leave for a couple of hours.

UNDO THE CLAMPS!!!!! Before running again.

I must absolutely STRESS that if you don’t KNOW what you are doing, you could potentially knacker the machine. It is HIGHLY advisable to be shown what to do / have a proper guide and all of the correct fluids & materials (and not just my "going from memory" guide!)
Peter’s comments may well be blunt, but true… this is a £multi-thousand pound machine…and a little knowledge is a very, very dangerous thing. If not 100% sure on the procedures…leave it well alone!

[Ben.Dexter]

thanks David,

I will try a head soak,if that fails I will call out an engineer…can only be a good thing.

so if you took a wild gues what would you put this printing problem down to?simply dirty heads?

Thankyou,

[Peter Shaw]

Head Soaking is a common cure procedure of the Cadet but should not be necessary on a Versacamm using EcoSol Max inks. Having said this, if the heads have been allowed to dry out it may help.

You need to ensure the ink is coming through or whether you have a pump or damper issue first.

Peter

[Ben.Dexter]

Thanks Pete,

another thing is the owner claims to have had some ‘other’ ink supplied to penetrate the reflective vinyl he uses,supposedly the standard ink wouldn’t penetrate and just sat on top of the vinyl…I’m not sure how true this is,or weather it would cause issues with the heads clogging etc?

how would i diagnose a pump fault?

and thanks for your help Pete,really appreciate it.

[Gavin MacMillan]

Walk away! Sub out your print work until you can justify having your own machine. I would hate for you to get the blame for anything going wrong with this machine and it sounds to me like the owner doesn’t know what he’s doing – a very strange position to be in with such an expensive piece of kit?

I don’t like to be negative about things but I’ve followed this thread from the start and my opinion has got stronger each post you have made and I’ve posted it now trying to be helpful not rude.

Gavin

[Peter Shaw]

Gavin is probably right. Using these machines takes a bit of learning, it isn’t just load and go.

If this machine has had different inks popped in it for the odd run, who knows what mess the heads, capping stations etc are in. It certainly sounds as if he has used a solvent type ink which has been left to dry out. The EcoSol Max inks won’t clear that on their own as they don’t have the equivalent solvent power.

The only other suggestion I would make, other than an engineer call-out, is to empty the ink out completely, refill with flushing fluid and leave the heads and machine in soak for several days. flush through a couple of times and then reload with ink and see what happens. That’s quite an expensive process, though.

So, back to Gavins suggestions!!

Peter

[David Glen]

quote Peter Normington:

quote Custom-Pixels:

Hi,

Can you explain what a flush is please?

Thanks,

Its when you pull the chain.

sorry, bit sarcastic I know, but using someone elses machine on an ad-hoc basis is asking for trouble, what happens if you screw it up? Will you be able to carry on? or will you fork out for your own printer.
Cant the man who owns it sort it out?

You dont have a clue about it, and I dont mean any disrespect by saying that.
To be honest. I think you really need to learn the basics before trying to make a living from something you know nothing about.

just my take,

Peter

Peter

My sentiments but I didn’t dare say it.

Something doesn’t add up here????

[Ben.Dexter]

ok i have struck up a deal with the owner,and the printer is now at my premises,I have just set everything up,and did a test print,a few self clean’s,black is now coming thru…but their are no other colors what so ever,anything I need to do other than keep trying?I also just tried a medium clean but still to no avail,another thing is black ink is dripping onto the media every now and again…?

Thanks

[Peter Normington]

Hope you didnt part with or promise to much money on the deal, I think your only real option is to get an engineer in,
to see if the printer is worth saving

Peter

[Richard Urquhart]

Mate I really think its time to get someone in to go through this with you , we can all make suggestions but I think an engineer will be more help after all the basic things have been covered
rich

[Ben.Dexter]

if i can’t get ink to come thru propely then I will resort to calling out an engineer,

also the inks used are the following…

Victory Designs

Solvent Based

Code on the back is – EPS-GFX-CYAN-V2

[Ben.Dexter]

ok all colors ar enow comign thru almost perfect apart from black,black around 80% of the nozzles are missing in a test,but seems to print every color fine inc black,however the overall quality is down,but i’m not sure what I can expect from this printer?i printed out my name using various color settings but had no revelations.I also cant seem to get it to cut..but thats a problem for the Easysign forum… so can anybody shed light on the above please?

Regards,

[David Rogers]

If the owner has had it in ‘storage’ and been left with inks in it for say 2 or 3 weeks unused – they do tend to clog heads as the solvent component evaporates.

Hate to say it, but unless it’s bought ‘n’ paid for / contracts signed…get HIM to sort it. Unless it’s in FULL working order it’s not worth a damn as a full digital printer…every print will be spoiled unless you’re just using it for colour text labels and no black. You could go through £100 of ink or flush carts trying to sort it…

A service engineer callout and however many hours it takes…£chi-ching.

Ask yourself, honestly and unbiased – is it REALLY worth YOU spending YOUR money on v’s buying in prints until you need you own, working printer?

[Ben.Dexter]

Hi,

thanks,I’m not actually paying anything,well not at the moment anyway,I’ve had black coming thru almost perfectly just a few hours ago so how bad can it be? we all have to start somewhere.

the machine has been basically ‘played around with’ on and off for the past week,up until then I’ve no idea what kinda of use it has been having…if any.

I appreciate your help David,any tips on getting black to come thru,i just did a manual clean but…again to no avail…

[Peter Shaw]

Ok. Now you’ve supplied a bit more info we know you have solvent inks in the printer. It sounds as though it’s been off for yonks and therefore the inks have dried out. When they do this the solvent evaporates leaving the ink particles to clog. You have completely clogged heads. If the heads weren’t capped properly you have clogged capping stations. You also may have clogged outlet pipes preventing the pump pulling ink through. The same may have occurred in the dampers and inlet pipes. You also have the possibility that the solvent inks may have damaged the pipes and seals if the machine was not converted for them.

I now refer you to my last post re flushing, soaking etc. if you insist on persevering.

If I were in your position I wouldn’t touch this printer with a barge pole with your level of knowledge.

Peter

[Ben.Dexter]

Hi,

all colors are coming thru fine,the only problem is now black ink,and the quality isnt too clever…so this printer isnt made to use these solvent inks? it is used for ECO sol?? I will give the owner a call and see if he had the seals etc changed.

thanks Peter,

[David Glen]

:banghead:

[Gavin MacMillan]

Not a particularly helpful post David.

If all the heads are firing on the test print then your quality issue could be down to lots of different factors from media to temperatures and your profile choice. Has the owner of this machine ever had it working correctly? What made him change to full solvent?

In my opinion the first thing you want to do is look into changing back to eco-max. I don’t know what is involved but someone here will, a full flush and new carts at least I would think, a few hundred pound job but one you will need to seriously consider.

Gavin

[David Glen]

With respect Gavin, there have been a glut of helpful posts on this topic, all suggesting getting someone to look at who knows what they are doing.
The best advice is being totally ignored.
So my post is bang on.

[Ben.Dexter]

thanks Gavin,

the reason the owner changed to full solvent is the reflective vinyl he uses,the original inks didn’t penetrate and just sat in a pool on top of the vinyl,I think the machine has been running well at some point,but it has only ever been used for house number which of course is just black numbers,the owner used to wait until he had a hand full of numbers to print off then go to the machine and print them all off,so as you can imagine it was getting stood for days on end without even even power to it,let alone and printing done.

I have tried different setting,which make it fractionally better,but nothing is getting it perfect,also I’m just printing onto cheap white vinyl at the moment to get the hang of things.Is their anything I can try other than calling out an engineer to try and get the quality better?

Thanks again,

[Ben.Dexter]

could somebody describe how I would do a head soak,

Thanks,

[Phill Fenton]

Get a bucket of water, take your sunglasses off, then stick your head in :lol1: :lol1:

[Nick Minall]

quote Phill:

Get a bucket of water, take your sunglasses off, then stick your head in :lol1: :lol1:

:lol1: I wondered who would say that :lol1:

[David Rogers]

quote Custom-Pixels:

could somebody describe how I would do a head soak,

Thanks,

You mean, you’ve not done one YET?

Middle of my third post…

I’m not getting exasperated – but I really do think you should leave well enough alone now. These are expensive & sensitive bits of kit. Without a bit of operating experience ‘having a go’ at fixing it is not recommended. I certainly wouldn’t let some people here switch the bloody thing on without a full run through on operation & maintenance let alone go prodding about.

Step back and evaluate the situation before the owner charges YOU a grand for new heads because "it worked before you started messing about with it"…’deals’ are one thing…hard business is another. If you have carte blance and feel like plodding on, it’s all at your own risk.

I don’t want to seem unhelpful now, but like many others have reservations in posting further suggestions other than ‘get in a professional’ lest we be blamed for any erroneous or ill utilised procedures as you are going into this totally blind. You’re probably quite a bright, resourceful person but remember (as I told somebody at work today who’d just buggered their home PC whilst ‘fixing it’…again) "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

Dave

[Gavin MacMillan]

We have eco-sol inks so I don’t know how to do a head soak. Unless you are going to use it all the time you will have to convert back. Also these machines should never be switched of! When in standby mode they still perform cleaning and draw through some ink to keep them going with no problems – these are really the benefits of the versacamm and they are lost on you because of the inks you are using. As for quality it’s a minefield. You really need to use a digital media to get a true test, also try playing about with the heaters… 38 for print 41 for dryer maybe or a bit more if your unit is cold? It’s all a learning curve and you are giving yourself a major disadvantage at every possible turn I’m afraid.

Re-read this thread, there are some very good tips and advice.

My final piece of advice – don’t waste too much time – it’s not your machine and therefore not your problem and this sounds like one big fat problem to me.

Gavin

[Ben.Dexter]

quote Phill:

Get a bucket of water, take your sunglasses off, then stick your head in :lol1: :lol1:

take off your skirt and put some jeans on,

No i haven’t done a head soak yet,how do i clamp off the drain pipes david?

if a head soak doesn’t bring back some quality then i will call out an engineer.

Thanks again

[Gavin MacMillan]

quote :

I wondered who would say that

But it was always going to be Phill!

[David Rogers]

quote Custom-Pixels:

… No i haven’t done a head soak yet,how do i clamp off the drain pipes david?

if a head soak doesn’t bring back some quality then i will call out an engineer.

Thanks again

RHS cover off…little white (presumably) clamps on the drain lines next to the pump motor.

Just bear in mind as I said waaaaaay at the start – I DON’T have a versacamm (per se) – I have a Cadet (ie. Versacamm 540 with blue spray paint on it…) and I’m used to a full solvent set-up and the machine is designed to use them. So any and all advice is based on MY machine / setup, personal experience & what the installation engineer taught me.

[Ben.Dexter]

soaking now,thankyou David

how long do you think I should let it soak for?

again,Thankyou

[Peter Shaw]

24 – 48 hours.

What solvent are you using to soak the heads?

Peter

[Derek Heron]

be careful with soaking the heads by clamping the tubes
i had loads of problems way back with full solvent
engineer clamped them and said leave them till tomorrow and they should be ok.when i came in the ink had gone back through the dampers and down the tubes mixed.never found out why it did this !
i am now on ecosol max with no problems.
fingers tightly crossed
Derek

[Peter Shaw]

quote :

it has only ever been used for house number which of course is just black numbers

What a clever idea. I’ve never thought of putting white vinyl in and printing it black before cutting it out. I’ve only used that soppy old black vinyl stuff! :lol1:

Peter

[Peter Shaw]

quote :

never found out why it did this

It does this because you are creating a closed loop between the 2 colours that feed to each head. If a difference in pressure exists between the cartridges, the higher pressure ink feeds into the lower. The pressure change will occur with change in temperature.

Peter

[Ben.Dexter]

the solvent is,

Maintenance Flush

Solvent Based

Made by Victory Designs.

[Derek Heron]

thanks for the explanation peter i seem to remember you advised me at the time with the problems i was having the roland engineer at the time said well thats a new one on me!
cheers

Derek

[Peter Shaw]

Have you checked if the machine was converted to take solvent inks?

If not the solvent flush may cause damage as I mentioned previously.

If the inks and flush came from Victory they should be able to advise.

The other thing you might check is whether the owner of the machine isn’t setting you up to pay for the repairs to the machine he buggered.

Peter

[Ben.Dexter]

after leaving it to soak for 24 hours black still wouldn’t come Thru,I set the machine to drain all ink,as if transporting the machine,then re inserted the cartridges,it tried to pull the ink thru but hasn’t managed to pull any ink right thru to the heads… what would be causing this?

and does anybody have a number for a good engineer?

[Mike Fear]

From the sound of it the machine is knackered 😥 – at the least I would guess it needs a new pump and heads, and possibly some of the other ancillary parts as well.

Has the owner got a warranty with Roland for it ?

[Gary Birch]

You could try Mark at Optimise. They are only in Barnsley. Tel 01226 490434 or 07983 601484

Cheers

Gary

[Peter Shaw]

quote :

hasn’t managed to pull any ink right thru to the heads… what would be causing this?

Unbelievable!!

Haven’t you read any of our posts ???

[David Glen]

I repeat my earlier post…. :banghead:

[Gavin MacMillan]

and this time I agree :lol1:

[David Glen]

quote Custom-Pixels:

Hi,

the owner of the machine has cleaned the heads countless times,but I feel their is some kind of problem with the machine…if you perform a test print their are huge gaps in the black,and other colors are patchy at best.

Ben

The answer is in your original post, this is why he doesn’t care about you messing about with an £8K machine – its’ KNACKERED!

[Ben.Dexter]

why don’t you guy’s relax…

I pulled the ink thru with a syringe,now colors are back fine,black is coming thru but still missing nozzles and the quality isn’t too clever,is it the head’s that are making the quality crap? I’m guessing nothing else can affect the quality.

by crap quality I mean their is kinda of an ‘overspray’ and colors are a little dull.

(:)

is it safe to push some solvent cleaner thru the heads and let it sit in their overnight? maybe that will clear the blocked nozzles up?

[Colin-T]

I think you should look for a good engineer. After all this messing about with something you know nothing about means that when the engineer eventually gets there, he will be fixing the original problem and all the others you have caused. Do the guy a favour and tell him you dont have a clue what your doing, maybe the heads could be saved if you stop playing NOW. The heads are around £550 each to fit yourself, or pay a proper engineer.
Take this advice if you like,………..from an engineer.

[Ben.Dexter]

i appreciate your help and input,all I want is some clear cut advice on what is wrong,if the heads are damaged for whatever reason obviously I need an engineer,or is it simply clogged heads,in which case I can have a go myself..

Thanks

[Peter Normington]

relax? If you were a candidate on dragons den you would have been laughed at, you dont have a clue, fail to take advise, and still think you have a viable proposition,
anyway for that reason…. I’m out

just get an engineer in.

Peter

[Ben.Dexter]

ok,but that is my problem,why do you have to get all heated 😀

that Alan Salt aint got shit on me anyway….

[Peter Normington]

no heat, I’m the most relaxed guy in the world.
but you are beating a dead horse…

Alan Salt?

Peter

[Phill Fenton]

Why don’t you try doing a reverse flush?

[Nicola McIntosh]

quote Phill:

Why don’t you try doing a reverse flush?

ohh your naughty phil……….. :lol1: :lol1:

nik

[David Rogers]

quote Custom-Pixels:

i appreciate your help and input,all I want is some clear cut advice on what is wrong,if the heads are damaged for whatever reason obviously I need an engineer,or is it simply clogged heads,in which case I can have a go myself..

Thanks

The simple truth is nobody KNOWS what’s wrong without physically being there.

Could be blocked head, dead head, knackered pump (not pulling ink through so gumming up head), bad seal on the capping stations, bad ink (too thick or contaminated)…really the list goes on.

Hence the need to just get a qualified service engineer to diagnose & repair / replace the defective parts.

‘We’ have exhausted our suggestions & possible home remedies – time to spend some dosh.

If it does need a head (or two), pump, other odds ‘n’ sods, full system flush, new inks, (ie. resurrection from the dead) don’t expect much change out of £1k at best – £2k at worst including the service visit.

And if that’s all fitted there’s STILL no guarantee it’ll work right right…all at your expense.

[Peter Normington]

Wish I was as eloquent as you Dave, thats what I meant to say…

Peter

[Bill McMurtry]

FWIW… sounds like ink has dried in the head, blocking some of the nozzles and channels. The only way to clear the problem is to soak the head in flushing solution in order to dissolve the blockages. It may not be sufficient to simply do a long term nozzle wash/soak as this may not get flushing solution to where its needed most.

If it were my problem, I would remove the black head, do a manual head flush (push through 3 to 5cc of flushing solution) and allow the head to rest in full contact with the flushing solution for at least a day or two. Repeat the manual head flush and perform additional soakings until all blockages are dissolved and cleared. Great care should be taken in handling the head to avoid any nozzle damage. Flushing solution should not be forced through the head (via syringe and a damper) at a rate greater than about 1cc per minute.

IMO, almost all dried ink head blockages can be solved with patients and careful handling. Of course, a professional technician usually can’t justify the time and risk in resurrecting a dried out head and will likely opt for the more expedient fix of simply replacing the head.

[Ben.Dexter]

ok ok ok…

after just getting off the phone with the owner,he tell’s me one of his friends once adjusted the heads,and since then black has been playing up…I had a quick look and the head’s were sat cruked! I have set the head’s level and instantly more nozzles are firing…but crooked not sure where the head’s should be set? their’s 2 screws with E-longated holes for some adjustment,right now their around the middle…

I think we’re getting somewhere people!

[Bill McMurtry]

😮 :lol1:

[Colin-T]

The best advice you can get has already been given. Simple, you need an engineer. I am telling you this as I am an engineer, but anyone on here will give you the contact with an engineer they use. The longer you play the more expensive it could be.

[Martin Armitage]

I think that the adjustments in setting the heads are determined by firing patterns and then making decisions by eye – where your going to get the information you need i dont know. If somebody has been playing around with head adjustments and managed to cock it up what else have they done!
Mart.

[Peter Shaw]

I guess you can’t have too much business to attend to if you can continue f*r*ta*s*ng about with this machine rather than getting it fixed properly.

You’ve ignored most of the advice given, still haven’t established the basics such as, is the pump working, and are now fooling around with head adjustments without the faintest idea of what you are doing.

This thread would be funnier than the joke thread, if it wasn’t so tragic!!!

Peter

[Ben.Dexter]

i didn’t know sign writers were all soo morbid (hot)

[Colin-T]

I have my own theory on what is happening here. You have told this guy you’re an engineer; as you may have found out that it pays well or whatever reason. So you cant go back now and tell him you’re clueless, because then you couldn’t charge him for any of the countless hours of head scratching you have already done on the machine.
Or you just don’t what to look stupid?
You have ignored all of the good, sound and free advice people have given you on here. While you’re playing around with this machine, the heads are getting more dried up, the problem is getting bigger, more expensive to fix,…………..you’re wasting someone else’s money as you will walk away with some excuse when its totally buggered.
Get the guy to pick up the phone to any one of the reputable companies or engineers who know what they are doing, you are not helping him, just wasting his time and money.
For what its worth to you, that my advice.

[Robert Lambie]

sorry Stu, but i have decided to lock this thread.

there is plenty good advice here to help you out, but personally, "as has been said many times" i think you should get an engineer to look at it.

i am locking the thread because its not going anywhere but around in circles. some are understandably getting a bit frustrated and sarcastic comments are now being passed back and forward. it can only get ugly from here, and i would rather prevent that now rather than later. 😀

.