Problem With Vinyl Cutting, Extra Cuts Between Images

[Michael Taylor]

Hello
Well i have the same cutter and software and i am thinking of changing all together as i have had mine for about 8 months i have found not just the images but the simple things like a single letter getting ruined.

Mick

[John Gregson]

Hi all,
I’ve had this problem happen before. On my designs its usually letters cut in half, to rectify this problem try welding the text together. In artcut all you do is select all text then click on weld.

Cheers John

[Jerry Bonham]

Hi All,
There are generally two reasons that this occurs (Extra cuts made by the vinyl cutter) and it has not a thing to do with sign software.
1. When information is sent to a vinyl cutter it is in the form of ASCI text. Sometimes a character (or more than one) is lost. If this occurs then many times extra cuts will be made in the vinyl. Especially is a Pen up or a pen down command is lost.
The solution is often to use another port or replace cables. I have found in the past the most common reason is the user of the vinyl cutter has added "extensions" beyond the recommended distance. For example USB cables do not work beyond 3 to 5 metres. Parallel cables do not work beyond five metres and serial cables will work over almost any distance. I have also seen cables that have been dragged over a bench or been walked on constantly thus becoming damaged. Connections in extended cables taped up with masking tape. The most difficult to solve was where the cutter cable was running alongside a 30,000 volt cable in a factory. It took me a hour to figure that one out. I moved the cutter and cable to another bench and all was fine. So electrical or magnetic interference can be a cause.
Also I said above to change ports. This is especially relevant to USB ports. On some computers bought at bargain prices the power supply for the USB ports tends to be inadequate to run more than one device. Instead of the correct voltage being supplied to all ports it is split between the ports. If there is insufficient power in the USB cable then information will be lost. And mis-cuts will occur. Solution here is to make sure that you USB cable is on the main USB port.
2. "Invisible objects" It is all to often an object is "white" or "transparent". Then the user does not see it. Go to outline mode and it may be visible. Open path objects must never be sent to a cutter. It is really recommended that all objects sent to a cutter be closed objects. (Check in “node edit” mode). Especially I have seen this in files created in Illustrator and among some of the "free" clipart around on the net. I have examined downloaded logos from the net and these are some of the worst for weird and strange objects. Many of these have been created on multiple layers in Illustrator and then saved as an eps file. Then the layers are collapsed to a single layer. If the graphic artist has used transparent objects as guides and not removed them, then in single layer sign software (all sign software programs are essentially single layer) these objects may not be visible and yet will cut. Beware. WMF files mostly consist of open path objects.

Other remarks. Sign software (does not matter what brand) does not and cannot create extra lines or cut marks. Yet many blame the software when "extra cuts" occur in their work.
The true cause lies elsewhere. All sign software ONLY cuts what is on the screen. Check this thoroughly as outlined above.
I notice that it is said that "welding" solved the problem. Actually all that happened is that the cutting path was changed. Changing the cutting path by welding means that the information sent to the cutter is simply sent in a different order.
As a result of this the "extra cut" was actually a character that was missed and this time it was not critical to the job. So the user thought that the solution was welding. In SignBlazer you can change the cutting direction or path easily in the cut menu. While I am on the subject of cut paths I should mention the reason cut paths are important. Good sign software will ALWAYS cut the inside of a object such a letter “O” first in one direction and then cut the outside of the letter “O” in the opposite direction. Why? When cutting very small letters this prevents distorted cutting. So only change the cutting direction if you really know what you are doing. In SignBlazer the main reason for the ability to change the cutting path is so that when a plt file is saved for laser cutting or waterjet or a for a router the cut path is in the correct direction for the particular machine. You need to discuss this with whoever you use for laser, waterjet, or routing.
So to sum up, check cables, ports and connections and do not have them near strong magnetic or electrical sources.

[John Childs]

Good post Jerry.

[Jerry Bonham]

Thank you John

[Karl Williams]

My Summa use to do this. The blade holder was faulty causing the blade to drop every so often.

[Jerry Bonham]

Hi Karl,
You are totally & absolutely correct — faulty blade holders and or even a badly marked cutting strip will cause these problems as well. Also putting in the wrong blade or a blade that is too long or too short. I have seen all these things.
I was assuming that the problem was not mechanical as that generally is easily picked up. Also the cutter was not that old.
The only faulty blade holders I have seen since 1987 when I started selling Roland Camm1 (PNC 1000) have been where users have tried to pull them to bits, the bearings in the top are damaged, the blade holder has been dropped. Wrong blades have been forced in, dirt has got into the holder (no how on earth do you do that?) or just plain OLD. However fortunately it is very rare to have a faulty blade holder. You cannot buy from us as we are in Australia however we sell about 1,000 blades for every blade holder (just looked in our database) .

[Karl Williams]

My holder was brand new when this happened. Bad batch!
Glad I was of some help young man.

[Jerry Bonham]

Hi Karl,
WOW! I love Summa stuff (hope I am allowed to say that – being a supplier I have to be very careful what I say, maybe I will add that we do not sell Summa cutters even though I want to) and in fact SignBlazer was first developed around the old Houston Instruments Cutters that later became Summa. I never have ever seen a faulty anything from Summa. With the Chinese cutters I have had lots of faulty everything when the units are new. However these are thoroughly checked before going out.
Hey what does SB mean in your title?

[Karl Williams]

Chinese cutters are probably made by some poor sod who only gets paid a bowl of rice a week and can’t be arsed! As for SB, dunno mate. Probably Stupid B******d for be up so late!

[Shane Drew]

quote Jerry Bonham:

I never have ever seen a faulty anything from Summa.

oooo I had a summa in the 90’s. Never again. Biggest heap of trash I’ve ever owned. I got to know the technician so well, when the thing was out of warranty, I sponsored his race car in exchange for the constant repair bill. It was much cheaper from my point of view.

Lost count of the amount of PCB’s we replaced, and the thing had such bad tracking,……. All those nightmares are coming flooding back…. I think I’ll need medication to get to sleep tonight! 😕

[Shane Drew]

quote Jerry Bonham:

Hey what does SB mean in your title?

(U)(K)(S)ign(B)oard

[Karl Williams]

Shane,
I think you’ll find these are loads better now mate!

[Shane Drew]

Where are you in OZ Jerry?

[Jerry Bonham]

Hi Shane,
I live in Melbourne. If you think you have crazy weather then look at us. Xmas day it SNOWED 800mm of snow above 300 metres. Then two weeks later the same mountain tops were being burnt out by raging bushfires!. All in all OZ is really great place to live. I have lived in the UK and Brussels for short times. I love London. If I could pick where to live it would be London.

[Shane Drew]

quote KARL WILLIAMS:

Shane,
I think you’ll find these are loads better now mate!

I’d certainly hope so Karl. I’ll never buy another one tho. Had Rolands and graphtecs since, never had a drama.

Jerry, my Brother in law lives at Ballarat, it can be a boiling hot day here in SEQld, and they can have sleet. Big place Australia. Victoria has been getting some pretty bad weather that’s for sure. We have not had too many of our bad electrical storms here for a while, just oppressive humidity, boiling hot sunshine, and a bit of wind. I’m surprised we have not had too many fires tho. A few years ago we had a few firebugs up here, but looks like they may have moved south. 😕

I’ve never been to Europe unfortunately, but my dad has, and he’d live anywhere in England he says. He’s big into hystory tho, so he really loves what England has to offer.

I love Australia, could easily live in America though. Or south Island of New Zealand would be nice. Happy with Brisbane though. No need to move anywhere at the moment 😛

Welcome to the site too.

[Jerry Bonham]

Hi Shane,
Sorry I did not notice the Aussie flag. Thanks for the welcome. I guess we know dozerns of the same people. Are you a SignBlazer user? I hope I can contribute to this forum as it appears it needs someone with a bit of technical knowledge and experience. I have been in the sign industry for 27 years this year. Been selling software and vinyl cutters since 1987 when Roland released the Camm 1. I guess you know all about the crazy weather we are having in Australia. I know Ballarat well. They have RUN OUT OF WATER. I am told it is being brought in by tanker!

[John Childs]

Shane,

Back in the mid nineties I bought a Graphtec, my first foray into friction fed plotters. I had to get rid of it because the tracking was so bad, and went back to a sprocket fed machine. I wouldn’t hold that against Graphtec today though.

[Shane Drew]

quote Jerry Bonham:

Hi Shane,
Sorry I did not notice the Aussie flag. Thanks for the welcome. I guess we know dozerns of the same people. Are you a SignBlazer user? I hope I can contribute to this forum as it appears it needs someone with a bit of technical knowledge and experience. I have been in the sign industry for 27 years this year. Been selling software and vinyl cutters since 1987 when Roland released the Camm 1. I guess you know all about the crazy weather we are having in Australia. I know Ballarat well. They have RUN OUT OF WATER. I am told it is being brought in by tanker!

Jerry, I’ve been a Sign Wizard User since Brian first started selling them, (Before he started PDA in australia) Now Signwarehouse supports it, but I don’t think they are too keen, as they sell so much sign software. The new V6 is a bit expensive here too, especially as Corel x3 and SW5.1 combined does just about the same stuff. Certainly in terms of cost, its not worth the upgrade here.

My background is Computers (amiga 500 ring some bells? 😛 ) but got into signage in ’92.

We are running out of water too, although Goulburn is down to 150 litres per person per day I hear. Tanking water is pretty common in these parts, as I’m near Mt Tambourine, and they are only on tank water anyway.

Do you know Ken Pobjoy from Image Mag? Top bloke.

Plenty of Technical guys and gals contribute here too mate, but one more is always welcome. A top bunch of members here, from all walks of life. UKSB’s is a top resource too. I still learn from these people everyday. A few Victorian members too, so you’ll probably bump into them from time to time.

Take care mate

[Shane Drew]

quote John Childs:

Shane,

Back in the mid nineties I bought a Graphtec, my first foray into friction fed plotters. I had to get rid of it because the tracking was so bad, and went back to a sprocket fed machine. I wouldn’t hold that against Graphtec today though.

Fair point John.

In truth is was not so much the cutter, although that was frustrating enough, but it was more the sales people here. Once they had your money, after sales service was non existent 👿

[Karl Williams]

Sounds Familiar!

[Karl Williams]

I’ve got to say the most reliable machines I have ever used are the graphix 4b’s and the GSP sprint. Regarding john comments on sprocket fed plotters I have got to agree. Ultimate problem free tracking. I used to leave mine running all night and went to bed! AAHH! Those were the days John! 😀 😀 😀

[Mike Grant]

Going back to the plot…….

You will also find annoying "extra" cut lines when importing text into a program as an AI file. it seems to split a few letters into two separate halves and you will have to edit out the lines and close the nodes up.