Print, Honest answer required.

[autosign]

I think it’s a good thing as some of the fly by night merchants who have no design skills whatsoever will be shown up with the emergence of digital print.

Anyone can type a few letters, select a font and cut it. But producing good quality digital images needs more skill and time to learn.

[Shane Drew]

Some years ago I purchased a HP3500 printer because I was offered a good deal., and I could afford it.

I well and truely jumped in the deep end because I realised that I could not compete with the bigger guys due to lack of experience and the HP material was dearer than other brands.

I decided the only way to succeed in this market was to do the jobs the big boys wouldn’t, and that let me gain experience on small jobs, rather than stuffing up big ones. It was steep learning curve, but I gained enough confidence and business in 3 years to purchase my solvent printer, and now it has taken over as my main income in my shop.

Unforyunately the FlyByNight merchants are still getting business because they are cheap, and people still buy on price. But, end of the day, you can get much better money once you gain experience, and that only comes in time.

Shane

[Peter Shaw]

Don’t forget that having a digital printer does not mean you have to have “designer” images.

A lot of routine signs can be produced very quickly and economically using less labour overall. There is also the low to medium volume sticker market and photo prints which are becoming popular on vans.

Just using a variable shaded background on many signs like A Boards or fuzzy shadowing can make a sale for you, as your customer’s sign will stand out from the crowd. This kind of graphic enhancement is simple, you can do it from day 1 while you learn the more complex stuff.

Peter

[monty]

I often read people saying”fly by nighters” and “unqualified” which i guess there are, at least they are trying, and its an honest living. I left school with the qualifications required to do whatever i wanted-not true my passion was art/design and could not get an apprenticeship anywhere. I ended up working in the meat processing factory for 3 years. I eventually moved to the big city in auckland-nz and trained as a graphic artist, which i worked as for years then decided i like both meeting clients designing and making signage murals etc and not just sitting at a computer, A few years later i entered and won national awards in the nzsda awards for 2 years running against the biggest companies in new zealand. I travelled to california painting major murals for huge companies chasing my dream, because i had the love and passion for design and graphics. not bad for a fly by nighter! not bragging just making a point that some people prob want the chance to be more than fly by nighters but are limited in their opportunities offered nowadays. With this in mind check some work being shown as a materpiece on “show us your stuff” a lot is just what people are saying on here. Cutout vinyl letters on a vehicle. not being cynical but want people to be aware that if someone loves this work so much give them a chance and they will improve with time and practice if they have a passion. I did!

[Rodney Gold]

We hardly do ANY artwork for our digital printing , espcially big jobs as most is supplied by agencies or the clients.
Mostly its a matter of layout rather than originating stuff , so your vinyl experience will come in handy. Corels clipart etc will do fine for starters.
We had a huge need for full colour highly detialed graphics due to other processes and products we make , so even if we had no external work , the printer made sense.
Believe me , if you think a digital printer is going to improve your cash flow and is a license to print money and you DONT have the experience and the market , you will soon be disabused of that.
WITHOUT printing a thing , a 10k quid printer with all the bits and bobs is going to cost you at LEAST 50 quid a day (I can go into more detial why) . As you state , every tom dick and harry has one , all are scrabbling for work and the days of commanding high prices for print are over. Just to cover the 50 quid , you HAVE to print at least 5 sq meters a day. The profits you can make are not proportional to the cost and aggravation of the printer. However if you are not just selling raw print and are using it to enhance finished products like suppling and printing a lightbox , pop up , exhibition system etc) then it DOES make sense.
There are far more profitable areas of investment for a signage business that can generate much bigger margins and expand your range of services etc , a laser engraver/cutter , IMHO is far better in this regard.
Peter , look at your market , look at what you are currently spending on outsourcing digital printing , look at whether you are the only guy in town doing it or have some serious opposition. do you have the space for a printer and for drying/curing prints , what is your major application? You have to ask yourself the question “why would someone buy digital prints from ME and not elsewhere? what are YOU offering that makes you special in this regard? Can you absorb the cost of owning the printer etc for at least 3-4 months before it starts generating real money?
Make your decision based on those factors.

[Paul Cox]

I love Rodney Gold! Why isnt he on the UKSG Personality of the Year list??

Every single post of his is interesting, to the point and exactly spot-on to the question in hand.

Personally, i’m in the same boat as Peter with regards to purchasing a Versacamm or Cadet and have just made my decision thank to Rodney. Even though i could probably afford one, i gonna hang fire for a while until other factors change in my scenario.

Thanks Rodney, for your time and experience.

[Pryam Carter]

I was thinking about quitting the sign game about two years ago, i had a roland pc60 which i used very little for the print side of things. All of my work was cut out vinyl lettering for signage.
I was competing against two local firms who are very well established and have been open for 15 and 25 years respectively. It was pack up or get a digital printer and push the digital market locally. Something that neither of my competitors had done.
Thank god l invested into the print game with a versacamm.
Graphic design has always interested me, i did it at school and a little at college. As soon as a made the decision to get a printer i got my head down and got stuck into photoshop and corel, did on line tutorials and learnt from other people, books, & dvd’s religiously every night for about six months.
Whats the point in owning a printer and not getting the best out of it that you possibly can?
You could employ a graphic designer maybe? not a chance. I couldn’t afford it.
Since buying it my business has grown and grown. I also do print work for local design firms at better rates so they keep the printer a bit busier too.
Invest in some decent images too.
my advice would be to get one, but be prepared to learn about photoshop and other graphics programmes so you can get the best out of the machine.
Hope this has been helpful.

[Shane Drew]

quote Cokka:

I love Rodney Gold! Why isnt he on the UKSG Personality of the Year list??

Every single post of his is interesting, to the point and exactly spot-on to the question in hand.

.

I agree 100% cokka, I personally value Rodneys viewpoint on a range of subjects. Even tho I may not agree with everything he says, he IS a real assett to these boards, and makes a lot of sense, even if you just want to get a different point of view.

Monty, my term ‘fly by nighter’ refers to those guys that come into the business because they think they can make a killing, with no longterm plans, have no real ethic, nor have any desire to improve.

Your point of view is indeed a valid one, but I don’t think anyone that dreams to improve, or follow a passion is a FBN.

For that matter, qualifications in my mind, mean zip in the design field. I don’t mean to offend any qualified designers here either, but I have won contracts against qualified designers, and I have even been appointed lead designer for a campaign that employed guys with heaps of qualifications in design. It comes down to being able to communicate what the clients want in your designs. How do you get a qualification for that?

Cheers
Shane

[chorley signs]

We got our VersaCAMM after a lot of success with the ColorCAMM producing labels and short-run custom stuff that we couldn’t get screen printed and wasn’t suitable for vinyl. The VersaCAMM means that we now don’t have to pay a £75 setup fee to the local big-boys every time we wanted a full colour graphic printed.

We have used it mostly as a way of enhancing the existing products rather than producing loads of fancy graphics and vehicle wraps. I have recently finished school and so have had a lot of time to get used to the machine and had done a lot of graphic design previously so the artwork was no problem. We get regular work off companies who have their own designer- they email a photoshop file to me, I put it into ColoRIP, check the size, quantity and colour profile and we have satisfied a customer who we have since had a lot of work from. Almost every day we get a call for a job we would have had to turn away if we hadn’t had the printer. I call that a good investment in both customer satisfaction and profits. The rest of the time we take advantage of it’s quick vinyl cutting to do long runs while the CAMM1 is working on other things.

Just my 2 cents

Rob 😀

[Peter Normington]

as usual you guys have come up trumps, and helped me to come to an informed decision. For the time being I will stick to cut vinyl, and my gerber..
Peter

[Paul Franklin]

Have been using photshop for years now and much as I’d like to splash out and buy a wide format printer, every time I’ve done the sums it works out cheaper for us to sub contract this side of work out and do the fitting only. There must be quite a bit of competition for this type of printing out there as the prices per square metre printed I’m getting are in my mind very, very good. This in my mind is probably due to the large number of companies who are offering leasing arrangements and trying to back it up by saying that if you only run your machine for so long per day you will produce so much and make X amount. All sounds good but you have to have the work in the first place. Subbing this side of our work out also takes the worry out of the maintenance, the cost of consumables and other issues, for which there are plenty of posts on this site asking for help about.
We too have an Edge Peter, and this still does the lions share of our printing work.

[John Singh]

Shane said:

quote :

Monty, my term ‘fly by nighter’ refers to those guys that come into the business because they think they can make a killing, with no longterm plans, have no real ethic, nor have any desire to improve.

A bit surprised!
Monty the description you give of yourself by no means fits the ‘fly by nighter’. You seem to have a burning passion for the game and a long interest in graphics

FBN
It means quite literally that, in some cases: The corner shop that suddenly appears and then suddenly disappears leaving a trail of disaster behind. Customers who have badly fitted signs that fall down and smash trying to locate the company who fitted them.
Supplirs who are waiting for their money and the tax man given the chase

Little John