Options for large signs

[Phill Fenton]

Foamex could be used but is not a good choice. It’s quite brittle and liable to warping if fitted without an aluminium frame.

Best bet for an economical solution that is quite acceptable and will provide a reasonable lifespan is to use an aluminium composite material – Dibond being the most well known example.

[Robert Lambie]

It maybe expensive to buy in, but you will be making much more money from it once they pay your bill. if buying in is a concern, then take a deposit to cover your outgoings…
i maybe wrong… but i think your pricing your work too cheap, there for looking for cheap ways/materials to help increase your profit.
it is how you sell your product to your customer that will at least 85% of the time dictate how the work will end up being carried out. i believe that if you educate your customer on how each material will preform, it will convince them in going for the best, if not the best they genuinely can afford.
anyway… too long winded for me to get into tonight but that’s my general thought on your post.

cheap factory signage to me = composite panel tech screwed flat to the cladding.
i refuse point blank to use foamex type PVC outside.

[Peter Normington]

quote Robert Lambie:

It maybe expensive to buy in, but you will be making much more money from it once they pay your bill. if buying in is a concern, then take a deposit to cover your outgoings…
i maybe wrong… but i think your pricing your work too cheap, there for looking for cheap ways/materials to help increase your profit.
it is how you sell your product to your customer that will at least 85% of the time dictate how the work will end up being carried out. i believe that if you educate your customer on how each material will preform, it will convince them in going for the best, if not the best they genuinely can afford.
anyway… too long winded for me to get into tonight but that’s my general thought on your post.

cheap factory signage to me = composite panel tech screwed flat to the cladding.
i refuse point blank to use foamex type PVC outside.

Rob.
I can post pictures of foamex signs I did 10 years ago,(6mm and 10mm) that are still as good as the day they were fitted, (tech screws on cladding)
I would now use composite though as it has come down in price so much that on an 8×4 panel, the material saving is next to nothing.

Peter

[Robert Lambie]

hi peter

i am not knocking anyones success stories in using foamex type panels, i am sure there are many mate. but my knowledge and experince of such signs, and im not just talking my own. is that they are for interal lightwearing signage and i draw the line there. just my own personal opinion of course…

I did say "cheap factory signage to me=" composite, but i never stated which type or brand. i was talking Hoarding board composite which is priced on par with a branded sheet of foamex. in fact, cheaper in some cases.
i will use this any day over PVC foamboard.

as you said, ally panel is close to branded composite. you are correct and we have a rack in work full of white sheets as we will use this over composite where we can. so i do fully agree with you there…
but when it comes to larger than 8×4 sheets the price of ally shoots up and colours much more, IF you can manage to find a coloured sheet.
in days gone, we always did flat cut letters in various alloy colours supplied by amari. think it was called something like ALU-color. was a great product and supplied through distributors by Alcan, but struggle to find it these days.

[Peter Normington]

Rob
millions of signs have been made from foamex in frames, and without any problem, it was sold for that purpose, and for exterior use, I now generally use composite, though, but not exclusively, but the hoarding board, is the bottom end of the scale, as composite, it does a job, just like foamex, but is for economy signage,
There can be advantages in using foamex, for one, it is easier to cut than composite.
At the end of the day its horses for courses, and if you can produce a product that does the job on an economy basis, and for a customer who doesn’t have a large budget a saving on materials may just win the quote?

Sorry we have gone a bit off topic, going back Stuarts Question,
ally frames are actually quite cheap, especially if you make them yourself,
Typically a 6m extrusion will cost about 20 quid. which will make a 2m x 1m frame

Peter

Peter

[Robert Lambie]

not off topic at all peter, part the question was on ally framing, part on composite/foamex.

the advantage of being able to easily cut foamex is only advantageous to you, not your customer. regardless, most sheet suppliers will cut to size and composite is also very easily cut.

Cheap signage = Hoarding board composite fixed with tech screws in few minutes.

* Foamex fascia with panatrim surrounding will cost you much more than above, will take longer to fabricate and longer to fit. so the use of foamex on budget signage is no longer the answer!
* Foamex panel will quickly become very brittle and very easily shattered if hit by a vandals brikc.
* Foamex holds dirt permanently in its grain/face texture, it will also yellow slightly over time.
* Coloured foamex has only around 3 months life before it begins to fade. e.g. colours such as red, will be bubble gum pink in a matter of months on a south facing sign.
* Foamex fixed without a frame will swell and buckle in varying tempretures. (yes i know you can leave screws loose, but still is the case)
* Changing graphics on fomex panels used outside often leave a ghosting of the original graphic.

anyway… im not trying to convince you or anyone, just airing my views on why i dont like using foamex.

[Stuart Green]

I take it that panatrim is the aluminium framework around the actual sign. I have bee quoted 15.00 from a supplier of mine whih i think is quite alot and certainly not what a customer would go for. so anyone know any decent supliers?? also when the diabon sheey is made in to a tray which you then just fix, what is that called and how much would that cost? i guess there is that process of aking it in to a tray.

[Karl Williams]

£15 per length for Panatrim?

[Mike Grant]

Stuart, you are obviously very new to the sign game. Do yourself a favour and stop being a cheapskate. Materials will cost you money, it is your job to recommend the correct materials for the job. If the customer doesn’t want to pay for it then walk away and find the next job that will pay. It is people like you that are devaluing our industry. You will do a job for say £100 that I would charge £200 for. The big difference is that I will still be in business next year and you will become a Government artist……………..Drawing dole!
Sorry to be so harsh but I call a spade a shovel……sorry a spade. :lol1:

[Mike Grant]

Panatrim is a special profile aluminium not to be confused with B&Q angle aluminium that I have seen used on signs, and yes I actually do have a photo of a sign so badly done with it they couldn’t even mitre the corners. 🙄

[Peter Normington]

quote Stuart Green:

I take it that panatrim is the aluminium framework around the actual sign. I have bee quoted 15.00 from a supplier of mine whih i think is quite alot and certainly not what a customer would go for. so anyone know any decent supliers?? also when the diabon sheey is made in to a tray which you then just fix, what is that called and how much would that cost? i guess there is that process of aking it in to a tray.

I cant see how £15 is a lot?
"diabon sheey" is called a tray like you say, cost wise if you think your customer would not go for the frame at £15 then you dont even want to know what a well made tray would cost!

Peter