Opinions on Printer / Cutter for Transparencies

[Robert Lambie]

i have an idea of what you want to achieve but is hard to grasp exactly, or if im completely off in the wrong direction.

the pc600 is probably ideal for what you want, but how it compares with a small inkjet on cost and ink cost i do not know. ide guess the small inkjet machine but top of range would be much cheaper. (but i could be wrong)

i am also confused about the film used. i mean is it just clear vinyl or an adhesive backed asitate (spelling) ? if so can this be cut/printed onto with pc600.. my guess is yes, but always best to check first.

this is another option but again, you will need to check if it can be done.
it may also be a better option all round for you and open doors to more than just what you do now.
buy a top end small inkjet printer, dektop kind… my brother has a really good one (ill check the make and model and get back)
anyway.. im sure it prints registration autoalign marks. soooo. you could print your images as you do now without hampering quality…

also, buy a plotter with that has the feature for automaticaly finding these registration marks to contour cut.

this way you have a top end plotter that can be used for everthing from what you need to large signs etc.. and is much better as a stand alone machine but can be used for both. you also have the small printer for what you do now, including proofs, photos etc…

i would imagine the two top end machines will cost you about £1700 brand new with all warranties. but thats the most you will pay, plenty good deals going around.

at the end of the day the pc600 is a great machine & is built & meant for small work like lamps etc. stickers & you name it..
my main concern is how competitive the ribbons are against the inks you are useing..
could you be just using exspensive inks, or your machine uses more than some makes?

anyway, im sure someone may be able to help you more here, not my speciality line of work im afraid. 😕

anymore questions feel free 😉

[Raj]

It’s hard to describe exactly what we do, I have that problem all the time trying to explain it to my family and friends. Maybe you will get a better idea if you visit our site and click in demonstration video clip. The transparencies we are using are completely clear, you can see right through them and they do not have adhesive.

Raj
trimlight.com

[Chris Wool]

yes more info on the backings please from whot i see and a great product is that i dont think you would be happy with the output of a colour camm because of the closeness of the light sourse my guess is it need to be a inkjet of some discription.
i heard of this light backing some 6 months ago but was told it was taken of the market my imagination is running riot i want some please

chris

[Mike Rogers]

Hi

I may be off the mark but I know at my last hell hole (sorry place of work) we use to produce posi’s for the screenprinting department by using our gerber to print on to clear material that was thicker than vinyl and I think we got it (clear material) from spandex. It may not be rigid enough for your purposes but of course you may be able to get thicker material on a roll – it is possible to print on to magnetic so thicker clear material if available no problem

Just a thought but having said that you would need to invest a few grand in a second hand machine but of course this could open doors to other opportunities

Mike 😉

[Raj]

quote mrsticker:

yes more info on the backings please from whot i see and a great product is that i dont think you would be happy with the output of a colour camm because of the closeness of the light sourse my guess is it need to be a inkjet of some discription.
i heard of this light backing some 6 months ago but was told it was taken of the market my imagination is running riot i want some please

chris

Chris,

A printer close to my shop said the same thing today about going for some sort of inkjet printer. He is selling his Roland CJ-70 printer/cutter for 8K CDN. I’m gonna have to do some research before I decide to purchase.
The lighting I’m using is EL lighting and paper thin. A transformer is required to step up the voltage and convert it into 120Vac. When I started out I was having designs cut out in black vinyl and sticking them to the lamps, which was great, but I could only use the colors of the lamps (red,green,white,and yellow). By using clear transparencies I can print anything I want and stick it to a white lamp, turn on the juice and voila! Amazing true to life pictures and designs illuminated at night 😎
I haven’t posted any designs with pictures on my site mainly because my lazy customers don’t want to send them in ( or because they want to be unique and don’t want others to know about this product). We sell el lamps and inverters without the graphic overlays just in case you would like to make your own designs. I think we are reasonably priced and some of my customers are reselling our products to make a profit. My company is new and I’ve had many requests to make people dealers of our product. The problem is that 95% of our work is custom and I don’t feel comfortable just handing over my techniques to some average Joe who has not earned it ( frustrating days, sleepless nights in front of the computer trying to figure out graphics and programs). I would rather supply existing sign companies with our product and let them use their imagination along with our lamps for mutual benefit. If you want to see a pic of a digital picture I printed on a bigger lamp for one of my customers email me with your address and I’ll send it to you, It looks awesome on a bigger lamp ( we don’t have them on our site, possibly in a month they will be displayed ).

Raj
trimlight@sympatico.ca

[Rodney Gold]

As far as I see it , you seem to provide some sort of illuminated flexible flat panel that (looking at your videos) seems to be either electrostatic which allows a clear printed film to adhere , or there is an adhesive involved?

According to your installation instructions , you seem to apply a double sided tape to the front of the decal as well as to the back , so as I see it , you apply the decal to the panel first and then apply the whole construction inside the car window (except for you baby on board which seems adhered with suckers)
At the end of it all , it shouldnt be difficult to do this with an inkjet or the like (something like a versacam will do this well)
The problem with printing on clear is that colours tend to wash out unless one does a double print , tho if your panel is white , this is not a problem.
The biggest problem is to get a double sided adhesive decal , but this is not that much of a problem either.
There are ovelams or mounting films called crystal clear , which one can apply to the front face of a decal that makes it capable of being placed inside a glass window and have a totally optically clear bond between it and the glass.
The workflow on a versacam or the like is to print the decal on either clear or transluscent white , then have it overlaminated with crystal view or the like , reload it into the machine which will read optical marks you print on the sheet and then die cut it thru both the front layer of crysal view right thru to the back layer of liner.
So you would peel the decal off the liner , stick it to the illuminated panel and then peel off the liner of the front adhesive layer and put it into the window.
Obviously this wont allow repositioning of the decal or interchangeability on the panel without messing up the decal , but will allow you to peel off the decal and re-use the panel , providing the adhesives on the vinyl you print are not permanent (vinyls come with permanent and removeable type adhesives)
A way of making this product changeable is to fabricate a clear acrylic frame it slides into , with the frame having a top and bottom “rail” that is adhesive.
This way you could print on clear acetate or pvc and slide the panel + graphics into this frame (which is adhered to the window), without adhesives at all. The problem is going to be die cutting the printed graphic as if it has no adhesive , it has no carrier and thus cant be cut by a vinyl cutter , although you can score thicker materials and “break them out” , you just can’t cut through.
A PC60/600 has certain problems , like being VERY expensive to run , the graphics will band , you have no control over density and thus light transmission and it doesnt have an optical re-registration system that allows you to print , process and then only cut. It also requires you run it in almost clean room conditions. A Versacam would be a lot better for this and other applications. to set up for reasonable production would require the printer and a laminator (cold pressure only) so as to be able to apply the front adhesive layer and would cost in the region of $20k. However the possibilities of a flexible backlit product like yours is manifold, forget cars and concentrate on point of sale , or for example advertising on Taxis etc etc. I can see huge possibilites , especially of you can do this on larger sheets. NO more lightboxes for one!!
Regards

[Raj]

Rodney,

Thanks for the versacam suggestion, that’s exactly what I was looking for. You were bang on about the double print and your other suggestions.
We first started with the 1 ¾”x8” lamp and have now begun the tooling process for larger sizes ( 2”x8”, 5”x5”, 4 ¼”x 10”) so we are gradually getting there. The max size is limited to 27”x27” for now and that runs over the $500.00 range plus the cost of a super sized power inverter and graphic overlay ( I have to find enough customers willing to pay that amount of money to justify manufacturing it).
Hopefully one day we will be set up for such larger sizes, but the small sizes are all that we can afford to make at this point in time. I appreciate all your advise it’s been very helpful.

Raj

[Robert Lambie]

i never even considered the banding that you will get when illuminating a pc600 print rodney.. 😳 😉

glad you shown the link to your site because i was way off.. for some reason i had lamps as in table lamps in mind. you know the lamp shades with transparent images on them… 😳 😳 ok i was way off yet again :lol1:

having a look at what you require here.. i notice some are in colour while some/most are just black blackout with the el lamp shoing its colour to illuminate. if i am correct in that.. would it not be cheaper to just buy a small but good make of vinyl plotter with tangental cutting ability and cut these logos etc from black vinyl?
the vinyl would block the light much better than a print. the tangental would mean much better accuracy on the small letters. and the vinyl would be budget stuff so would cost pennies for metres of the stuff..
just a thought, thats all..
the colours on the main text could be translucent coloured vinyls also… 🙄

[Chris Wool]

please advise as to costs for 8×2 inch with inverter
chris@mrsticker.co.uk

chris

[Rodney Gold]

You see some potential there MrSticker:)?
I can see even car stuff selling like hotcakes here in South Africa where I live!!! Let alone some other applications I can dream of- heh

[Nicola McIntosh]

hi raj

i have tried making positives from the pc60 just to see how the black turned out, it was not suitable for making a screen.
as rob suggested why don’t you buy a cutter for the large positives use cheap vynil and apply to the really thin clear (forgot what the material is called) 😳 i use this for the large stuff but if you want a really cheap way to do it for the smaller work i use an epson laser printer with postscript 3 and print onto folex laser sheets the quality is amazing and as i said very cheap to run!!

Nik

[Raj]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I like the thought of using both vinyl and laser sheets. I’ll get my neighbor to make up some designs on vinyl and give then a go.