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non genuine ink
i have a mimaki jv3 160 TS, was thinking of running non genuine ink and want some feedback whether it holds up to quality of genuine ink.
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23 Replies
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what brand of ink is it… do you know anything about it or who else uses it?
if you dont… do not go there… it will kill your warranty and probably your print heads. 😕 -
like rob says….
quote :what brand of ink is it… do you know anything about it or who else uses it?
if you dont… do not go there… it will kill your warranty and probably your print heads.when we were changing to bulk inks on our grenadier we had an offer from another ink supplier to supply us which was marginally cheaper than the genuine inks from the company that supplied our machine..
in his own words the inks were the same but different 😕
for peace of mind we decided it was worth the small difference to stay on the original inks and not void our warranty…
hopefully some JV3 owners can share their experiences with you
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I woudnt use non genuine inks on my £100 desk top printer let alone something I had spent thousands on.
you may save a few pence per square metre, but if your profit margins are so low, that you need to turn to aftermarket inks, why bother printing at all? Its like saving 10p a metre on cheap vinyl,Peter
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Hi Shaun, I use non-genuine bulk ink in my JV3 160S. Then again, I do all my own maintenance and repairs and I do not have warranty considerations. That being said, my personal experience is that non-genuine ink can save you huge amounts of money over OEM cartridges – currently I’m running at less than 1/10 the ink cost. The print results can be just as good with no more problems than are normally encountered with printer consumables (heads, dampers, etc).
The same might be said of non-genuine parts such as printheads. I currently buy in printheads for 1/3 the price I might pay for OEM, but once again I do all my own maintenance and I do not have warranty considerations.
I think it would take a pretty brave person to void their warranty and use non-OEM parts and ink without having the technical expertise to go it alone, but the savings can be enormous.
BTW: shouldn’t this thread be in the printer section rather than under cutters?
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Bill, how often do you need to buy in a print head?
perhaps if you used original inks you wouldn’t need too?
I have only recently bought my Mimaki, so I am no expert, but based on my experience in other fields, after market or non original parts rarely come upto original quality and longevity.
I would not buy non original brake parts for my car, for the same reasons.
if it works for you fine, but I still need to be convinced.
Its just my opinion, but its a bit like putting cooking oil in the sump of your Porsche, it may do the job for a while, but at what cost?Peter
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Hi Peter, solvent printheads are consumable components and need replacing regularly whether you use OEM or non-genuine ink. One of the objections I hear about non-genuine ink is that it clogs printheads or reduces the life of a printhead compared to OEM. I’ve found that these objections usually come from OEM suppliers or from people who have not in fact used them and are simply passing on the OEM line.
If an after market ink has the same basic solvent component formulation as OEM then it’s unlikely that it will eat away printhead components at a different rate to OEM formulations and therefore, all things being equal, printhead life expectancy will be the same. Users of proven aftermarket ink don’t seem to report significantly different printhead life.
As for printhead nozzle failure, this can happen with OEM inks as well. However, users of proven aftermarket inks don’t seem to report significantly higher nozzle clogging compared to OEM users. Printhead nozzle failure can be the result of many variables such as restricted ink flow from blocked damper filters, faulty pumps, faulty capping station seal, ink line air leaks, etc.
Any oversize particulates in the ink tend to be filtered out before reaching and potentially clogging the printhead nozzles. Ink in my system is triple filtered before reaching the prinhead nozzles – a coarse filter at the bulk container end; the much finer damper filter; the very fine printhead cap filter. A blocked damper filter will result in ink starvation and nozzle dropout. Typically, a damper replacement (consumable part) will restore inkflow and proper nozzle firing. But many printheads have been diagnosed as faulty when in fact they have restricted ink flow due to a blocked headcap filter. Most people don’t know there are filters embedded inside the plastic cap of the printhead. These can be bought as a non-genuine $25 part. Guess which part in a $1200 OEM printhead can not be bought seperately?
Each to their own Peter. I would certainly not want to put an unknown 3rd party brake part on my car either, but then again I don’t know anything about brake parts 😀
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hello
if the ink supplier does not offer any profile or profiling service, dont go there,
plus from what we have seen over the years, when people try to save pennies on ink, they lose down time on heads clogging, and jobs not coming out the same as older work done with there older inks,
again it is a case of you get what you pay for,
regards
alan flynn -
I have had a JV3 for 2 months now and have just installed my first set of new inks. Until I know more about and pros and cons of non original inks I JUST WILL NOT GO THERE. I can’t risk my warranty.
Last week, just as I was about to order my new inks, I had a phone call from another ink supplier offering inks for quite a good rate on originals. I quizzed them about the originality of the inks and whether they would void my warranty and also the ‘sell by’ date of the cartridges, they seemed to think that there was no problems with any of my questions. They said they would email me some product information etc etc…..so far nothing….well to me that is food for thought!!? -
hello
as a end user and reseller, we have been there and all i can say is, if you want a easy life stick with what the manufacture supply, then if you have any problems there is no one blaming each other, also from what has happened to us, third party inks fade a lot faster, do you really want to have to do the job twice, and lose your name and any profit,
we only supply ink to our customers so we have nothing to gain by our statements
regards
alan flynn -
In Oz a 220ml catridge of OEM ink costs $130 – that’s almost $600 per litre for OEM ink!
I pay under $30 per litre for my bulk ink – that’s 1/20 the cost of OEM.
Hardly saving penny’s when the difference in ink cost for a full set of 6 x 1 litres of solvent ink is $3540 for OEM and $180 for non-genuine bulk inks. For that sort of savings I’m happy to learn how to profile 😀
Users of proven non-genuine ink don’t seem to report premature printhead failure or ink fading. Based on my experience, and what I know of the experiences of others, claims of non-genuine ink fading prematurely is completely wrong.
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lets face it its the un known that we worry about.
i plug a oem cart in my machine and it works.
if i plug non oem stuff in will it work ? dont know till i try.
will the colours be ok – dont know till i try.
will they last – dont know till i try.a lot of dont knows on a £17000 machine that works well as it is.
bill has it right for him and i have been toying with a second printer and would run it as bill does till i know the answers.
unfortunately i have been in this game long enough to have found out that manufactures all spread the truth a bit thin.
chris
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Hi Alan, which were the two different ink brands you used with your resolve that faded twice as fast as expected? Are you sure you didn’t use dye based inks by mistake? Or perhaps this bad experience with your old resolve printer happened years ago when non-original inks might not have been as up to scratch as they are today?
One bad experience years ago might not be such an accurate indicator of the current state of modern after market inks. Once again, genuine reports from actual current users of proven non-original inks don’t seem to indicate problems with light fastness, nozzle clogging, or reduced printhead life.
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hello bill
sorry as a reseller i think it would be unfair of me to name the manufactures, however they are inks which are still sold today and the are light solvent as i call them, not full solvent as some other resellers call them, if you get were i am coming from, as i said before we are only interested in selling ink to people we have sold machines to as part of the service, we dont want to be a big ink reseller, i am just passing on what has happened to me and some of my customer i have sold machines to,
my dad used to say to me you never stop learning and in the printing game it applies far more than the vinyl cutting market, hope this make sense,
in some ways this is a bit like the cheap cutter debate, everyone has a different idea on it,
regards
alan flynn -
Hi Alan, sorry mate but I have to say that not specifying which faulty inks are fading prematurely doesn’t really help anyone – particularly if those inks are still being sold today!
At least with the ‘cheap cutter debate’ we all know which cutter’s are being discussed 😕
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quote shaun ramsay signs:i have a mimaki jv3 160 TS, was thinking of running non genuine ink and want some feedback whether it holds up to quality of genuine ink.Hi Shaun, Welcome to the boards. What part of oz you in? Good to go to the hello section and introduce yourself.
I use techinks on my Roland SC540ex, and can say, after using them for nearly 4 years, that I’ve only been thru 2 heads in all that time, and they were only replaced a few months ago.
Its important to remember not all non genuine inks are the same though.
I was talking to another Roland user the other day using Lycros(?) inks, and he goes thru a head in about 8 months on average.
I’ve also spoken to some that use the citrus inks, and they have replaced more heads than me in the same period.
Do your research, as its important. A saving on price is usually at the expense somewhere else. Techink particles are finer than most others on the market, and its been argued that they are even finer than Rolands own inks, although that is not proven to me, although I know some Roland users that run the orginal inks, and they have replaced more heads than me too.
I’d suggest you call someone like Australian Graphic Supplies 1300 132 677 and see if they can give you any help in your choice. Talk to Phil in the Brisbane technical dept, an honest guy and will tell you all the pros and cons.
Techink are also sold as oem inks on JV3’s so they are already proven to work on your equipment. AGS have well over 100 conversions on all sorts of machines, so have a good database of units they can draw data from.
Hope that helps.
Cheers
Shane -
hello all
sorry for the late reply, bill i understand what you are saying and if i was only a sign maker i would name company’s, but being a reseller as well i dont think its fair for me to go putting other suppliers name on the net, however you are welcome to give me a call and i wiil be happy to talk to you, all i was trying to say is for example when we sell 2nd hand machine we allways put a tried and tested ink in it even if it cost us more money, because the last think i want is my customer having problems from the word go, so if we set them off with a machine with ink which we think will not give them problems, then a least they know what the machine is capable of, and if they change inks and it give problems, well we can say it was ok with the inks we supplied if you know have a problem it could be the ink, sorry for the waffle
regards
alan the waffle flynn -
Thanks Alan and I understand you might be in a bit of a bind. However, I’ve always found it difficult to stay loyal to manufacturer’s who supply faulty product and I usually take the position that exposing faulty product is good for both the manufacturer (sometimes they need a little leverage to get it right) and any potential end users who are going to get stung.
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Drew: Do you know if any special adjustments have to be made to a Roland SP504V to take those techink full solvent inks?
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Hello all,
This is a very interesting post to me since I have a few years experience using third party inks here in the U.S.
So far all of the comparisons have been from a price stand point and not one of quality.
We have for the past few years been using mild solvent CMYKRB (lyson LOD) and had amazingly glossy vibrant prints with reds and blues that we could not achieve with OEM inks. The final prints were not really affected by wiping with most common solvents. The early eco oem inks would come right of with just a swipe of methanol. They are getting much better!
I do all of my own maintenance since I have been through Roland factory service training. With that being said, I do replace heads more often than on OEM systems.
We have been testing with Techinks and the initial results are looking very, very promising.(It does have a strong odor….you must ventilate well!)
Mild and true solvent inks are not for everybody, that is for sure. You really need to print alot to keep the system running trouble free.
Another thing, I don’t believe that the printer companies are actually making their own inks, that falls to an ink manufacturer who may also sell very comparable inks under third party labeling.I just recently found the board a just love all the great info here. I will try to pull my weight and share what little info I have picked up over the years.
Scott
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I have been using third party inks for a year now – mostly one marketed under the name ‘BLINK’ here in NZ with no problems at all in my SP540V.
Interestingly, there was no appreciable difference in my profiles when I changed from ECOSOL MAX – my reason for changing was dissatisfaction with the service from the people supposedly servicing our area ( couldn’t really complain about the service as there wasn’t any!!) and after weighing up the cost savings, I felt I could do my own (just as we had learned to do with our cutter many years earlier). I change my own dampers, done the pump and recently a scan motor – the only stressful bit is the dampers! – also have refurbished the pump (only thing gone was one hose) so sorted for the future if the other goes.
Recently another supplier has been offering a third party ink called RED GIANT here and after talking with a techo friend decided to give it a go as it is comparable price to the BLINK ($80 saving over OEM cartridge per 440ml cartridge, so it doesnt take long to save the cost of parts etc to service the machine) and our understanding is that RED GIANT is made in the same factory that makes ICOSOL MAX – once again there has been no change to my profiles… havent bothered to print new ones as a few colour matches done recently were perfect off my old charts.
In summary, my thoughts are that once out of warranty, if you have a modicum of technical ability, dont be afraid to try new things. With regard to quality, I have not been able to see any difference, but after only a year…how can one really know!!
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hello all
scott i think you are correct , i dont think the manufacters use there own ink, just like most of them dont use there own print heads, pumps, capping stations, but they wont go just on price,
third party inks are getting better as are the machines becoming more forgiving,
its like vinyl, i mainly use mac tac on my work due to using cheaper vinyls and having problems, i chose to pay more and know the product i am using wont fail,regards
alan flynn -
quote jxuereb:Drew: Do you know if any special adjustments have to be made to a Roland SP504V to take those techink full solvent inks?
Jason,
The only change they made to mine was to change the pumps to JV3’s because they have solvent resistant piping and pumps. Other than the conversion from cartidges to 1 litre bottles, its the same as I purchased it.
AGS do Techink conversions for the SP540 everyday of the week.
Hope that helps,
Shane
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We have been using 440ml JV3 cartridges from a major printing ink manufacturer for about 2 years now and have had no problem whatsoever, in fact I actually believe they extend the life of our heads as we haven’t had to change any since using them. All we did was take the OEM cartridges out and plug the new ones in, no need to flush out or profile they are exactly the same. The ink company has a good reputation so that’s why we went with them, I think if it was a cheap far east import we may not have done it.
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