New imac or Mac Pro?

[Peter Normington]

Warren of course it will be fine, mac’s are perfect,
no matter which model you buy, and you are already
a mac user, I am surprised you asked 😀

Peter

[Graham . Shand]

quote Warren Beard:

I have an old intel imac with 2GB Ram and since getting a printer and doing more high graphic work I have noticed a big slow down in processing speeds when using Illustrator and Photoshop.

I am looking at either getting a new imac (i5) which is obviously faster because it’s new and has 4GB Ram

OR

do I push a little further and get a Mac Pro, OK quiet a bit further 🙄

I think a new imac will be fine but would hate to find out the hard way if it isn’t. Any Mac people out there who have looked at a similar upgrade who might have some advise to give?

(and no I don’t want a PC so please don’t start a PC vs Mac debate)

Cheers

Warren

I use Macs and PC’s, the Mac’s just dont give you the issues you get with PC’s they just do it first time every time end of, so welcome to the dark side .all you have to do with a Mac is just enjoy it.

[John Wilson]

Mac Pro mate…. without a shadow of a doubt

More upgradable

Goto http://www.crucial.com/uk for memory upgrades and you’ll pay a fraction of the cost meaning you can beef up the ram something serious without too much outlay

I’ve got 14GB in mine the now and once my student loan comes through I’ll be sticking another 8GB into it 🙂

Also get a SSD drive as your main drive and just buy a 1TB for storage then wack it in

I do love the iMac but I’d buy a mac pro everytime if given the choice

[John Wilson]

on a side note…..

what do you call a second hand Mac? a Mac

what do you call a second hand PC? a piece of crap!!!

[Peter Normington]

sorry off topic

little edit 😀

Peter

[Neil Davey]

quote John Wilson:

on a side note…..

what do you call a second hand Mac? a Mac

what do you call a second hand PC? a piece of crap!!!

😀

Yeh, if you can stretch to the Mac Pro Warren go for it.

Love my Mac’s since my first Quadra back in ’94.

[Robert Lambie]

i have the full macpro setup… complete with final cut pro and photoshop.
speaker system, new wireless keyboard and mouse etc
all in immaculate condition… when i say never used, i mean that…

i was considering selling it as i never use it… have two beasts of computer PC’s i use that sit in opposite side of the room and use them all the time.
so you may see it appear on the boards in the next week or two. 😀 :lol1:

anyway, if i had the choice again ide go for the PC… ahem, i mean Pro… :lol1:

edit
think i just broke my own bloody rules!!! 😮 :lol1:

[Chris Wool]

is that with snow leopard v99 or kangaroo v5.2.
😉

[Robert Lambie]

That’s with Robin Reliant with body kit and lowered suspension. 😉

mod-edit…
im bloody doing it again… Off topic, off topic!
mods get a grip!

[David Rowland]

Well guys, after doing much research in recent weeks…. it turns out that a macpro is not up to what its supposed to be… yes i have a imac now and its really down to the i7 processor

i did photoshop speed tests with some benchmarking action script and this imac was very high up on the list, I managed to get an iMac 27" LED screen with i7 2.8Ghz 4GB machine for a really good deal, where from the Apple Store refurbished, I have to say it is perfect and I read where peole are saying that the refurbished macs get more attention then the new ones.

I saved about 40% off new price

If only John Child’s could read this, he be laughing at me… 😥

looks like they sold out of the one I had
http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/specialdeals/mac

[Chris Wool]

i see they do a air operated one, how does that work then

[David Rowland]

with a "45W MagSafe Power Adapter, AC wall plug, power cord"?

Tbh walking around with a compressor is not my kinda machine.

[Robert Lambie]

i bought the macpro after all the raving reviews on stability etc especially with video editing capabilities and more… so i invested heavily in it.

bottom line was… it crashed just as often as my beefed up video/graphics editing computer.
i also had to get used to the operating system as well as all the new software with exception of photoshop. that comes with territory i guess but still… it crashed!

So what big advantage did i see in having one?
when the mac crashed, it saved the work i was working on. when i rebooted it was saved.
other than that, for the time i used it… not much else.

do not get me wrong, i loved the new feel of stability. everything has its place… everything integrates with one another… all super smooth.

but thousands of pounds down… long learning curve… i think i could have gotten by just as-well if ide have hit the SAVE key every 30 minutes in case ofa crash on my PC. :lol1:

i honestly don’t have much problems with PC’s… i think allot of PC problems comes down to the crap installed on them and the operators.
i actually have similar views on those with wide format printer problems too…
i do believe in trying, spent thousands on a mac, and had i given it much more of my time, im sure ide have loved it. maybe another day…
same goes for iphones… love the functionality and all the gimmics that goes with them, how they integrate with the mac, itunes and more…
bought two iphones, one for the mrs and one for my wee girl. dont like them as phones, but did buy an itouch for when im in the car or the gym…
phone wise, blackberry…

god sake, im waffling on here and really dont know where i am going with this posts… should i keep going and see where i stop or should i shut up? 😕

ok… i shut-it! 😉 :lol1:

[John Wilson]

Robert I got a question on the software that you said was crashing on the mac…. was it bought or "acquired"? I’ve known people to have issues when "acquiring" the software from the wrong place

I’m running CS3 without any problems at all, had about 4-5 crashes in the last few years

[Warren Beard]

Well that was a good few responses during the night 😮 I’m surprised Rob hasn’t been banned yet 🙄 blatant disregard for the rules :lol1:

Back to mac (no that’s not what my wife keeps saying 🙄 )

I know the Mac Pro would be better otherwise wouldn’t be more expensive/powerful etc but it comes down to finances in the end. My imac currently runs well (so will be up for sale when I get my new one 😉 – sorry Rob but lead by example :lol1: ) but lacks a little now that I am doing a lot more high graphic work since getting my printer so just need a bit more speed to cope with general sign work etc. I just don’t want to spend double the amount for speed etc I will never need or use just to run Photoshop and Illustrator, remember all my ripping gets done on a different PC so it’s just to process and save large graphic files etc.

On top of that don’t we usually upgrade every 3 years or so 🙄 so another new one then will resolve future upgrade issues 😕

I can get a 25% discount of them so a good saving (my mother-in-law works for a retailer and gets the discount) so either way I will save a nice amount but also knowing my PC is going to need replacing soon as it is running minimum specs at the moment for my Versaworks and takes a bit of time to rip some larger files.

I guess Dave might have the answer I am looking for with his imac performing well although is an i7 and I can only get an i5.

cheers

Warren

[John Wilson]

Get the mac pro and run a virtual windows so you can run versaworks on the mac then you’ll kill two birds with one stone 😛

[Warren Beard]

quote John Wilson:

Get the mac pro and run a virtual windows so you can run versaworks on the mac then you’ll kill two birds with one stone 😛

Do you and does it work well? I tried Parallels on my current imac and was sh1t, took it straight off.

[John Wilson]

Works perfectly as the mac pro has enough power to run it perfectly

http://www.vmware.com/products/fusion/

I use fusion without any problems, you can integrate it so you don’t actually have to look at the windows screen

Pop into the Apple store and speak to the business team and get them to install vmware for you to see for yourself

[Warren Beard]

Thanks John, that might actually sway me so I won’t need the PC anymore and can do it all from my station.

will look deeper

cheers

Warren

[John Wilson]

I don’t have a pc anymore apart from a laptop at home when i want to sit on the sofa and do some "work"

But i’ll get a mac book pro once i get the cash 🙂

[Robert Lambie]

:lol1: no john, all purchased 100% legal thank you very much! :lol1:
I bought Final cut pro which is Apple software, and Photoshop.
the machine has nothing on it, doesnt even get used for emails etc… soley for video/graphics. Final cut pro is an amazing program but probably more than what i needed and very indepth learning curve. so whilst i got my head around it i was using iMovie, which is owned by Mac i believe all Macs come with as standard…. using THAT software, the machine crashed from time to time.
the video format of the original files was .mov which is also the video format for macs-quicktime… so its not like i was using alien software or file types.
as i said, the bottom line for me was, ide spent a small fortune on a full mac setup without cutting corners and the same work was crashing on the MAC. (by that i dont mean same files) all beit the work had auto-saved on crashing…

[Warren Beard]

These are my 2 options;

Intel® Xeon® Processor E5620
2.4GHz with 2.66GHz turbo boost
Intel Core 2 Quad
RAM 6GB

Price = £2000

or

Intel® Xeon® Processor W3530
2.8GHz with 3.06GHz Turbo Boost
Intel Core 2 Quad
RAM 3GB

Price = £1500

The cheaper one has a faster processor but half the Ram (also looks like an older model because the processor is W3530 apposed to the other one which is E5620 but have no idea how that effects it)

Alternatively was looking at;

imac
27 inch widescreen LED-backlit display
2.8GHz
Intel Core i5
RAM 4GB

Price = £1250

Remember the Mac Pro still needs a screen which will be another few hundred £’s

Anybody have any ideas?

cheers

Warren

[David-Foster-]

Hi Warren, well the same screen you get with the iMac is available separately for the Mac Pro but it is more than a few hundred, try £899! So if value for money is needed the iMac wins easily. You have run you business from your previous iMac so that is all you need. As far as upgrading, you will save enough buying the iMac to buy another in a few years time 😀 As far as I know you can also use the iMac’s screen with an input from something else.
As you know, Macs last a lot longer than PC’s.

BUT, it looks like Rob will be giving his Mac stuff away soon, so watch this space.

[Warren Beard]

Done a lot of review readying and test review readings today and I think I am going to go the imac route again.

27" i5 imac capable of taking 16GB ram and performs on par and in some cases faster than the entry Mac Pro. Taking that and the prices in to account the imac value far out weights the Mac Pro for what I need it for. I am coping OK’ish with my old 2GB imac so am sure the new i5 with 16GB will do me very well for a long time. It also says running windows works well with 8GB so should be fine at 16GB but will still save me a small fortune even if I bought a little power PC for the Rip.

Thanks for the insights chaps

cheers

Warren

[Robert Lambie]

what? you don’t want mine?

come on… what a deal…

my Mac Pro, ill even chuck my Mrs… her iPhone, my iPod… even my instruction manual called iScratch my head every time i need to use the bloody thing!!!! thats the computer im on about, not the mrs!

:lol1: 😉

[John Wilson]

If the Mrs has your pin number then it’s a deal

[David Rowland]

i did lots of reading, i7 or i5 is a very decent processor.

I am currently editing 2.7GB photoshop image, very easy to do and I know windows would struggle.

When i upgrade the imacs memory, I shall not be populating the 4 sockets, only populate the 3 sockets to gain tripple-channel memory. So, I have 2x 2GB in there at the moment, if I put in 3x 2GB matched memory then I get 6GB or remove the others and get 3x 4GB which will get me 12GB. IDEAL

And they do crash!

[Warren Beard]

Why not use all 4 Dave? Just wondering what your reasoning is over it as was considering putting in 16GB (4x4GB) ?

Going to pick it up today 😛

[Jason Davies]

Good choice Warren the imac is a fine machine and the MacPro really is a piece of kit to indulge yourself with if money is no object.

Are you keeping your old machine as a backup piece of kit, I know I do and unfortunately our lack of space is due to many of these machines which date as far back as an LC and PowerPC6100 plus numerous laptops which I hasten to add all still work.

I’m sure that you will have no problems with speed, just don’t keep upgrading to the ‘very’ latest version of photoshop.

ATB

Jason

[David Rowland]

Warren, "only populate the 3 sockets to gain triple-channel memory"

I am referring to late 2009 model i5/i7, might be different to the current model.

More capacity in this case is not faster then the processor accessing triple channel memory. 4 chips will default it back to single channel access to the chips (slower)

[Warren Beard]

well a bit disappointed, phoned the shop yesterday to check if they had stock which they did, get there today and they say they don’t hold any on the floor and all come from the warehouse so can only collect on Thursday 😥

but anyway it’s coming so am happy, was having a look at the display model there and man it is a beautiful piece of equipment (love1)

Jason, I will be selling my current machine, my wife actually has one exactly the same as mine and am keeping hers for her to use and as a back up so will sell this one.

Dave; I’m still lost, explain more in sign makers language :lol1:

anyway it’s going to be a long 5 days to wait 🙄

cheers

Warren

[David Rowland]

identifying which mac has which processor is tricky… but here is something i found
http://discussions.info.apple.com/messa … D=10474818

[Martin Cole]

Warren if you can get the new quad core i5 for £1250 then that’s a great buy.

Don’t know a great deal about them but my son has just got a new i3.
I was asking the guy about the i5 as was considering this for him,
but the i3 was more than adequate for him. From what he was saying about the i5 it would be a breeze through what you require it for.

lovely machines.

Martin

[John Wilson]

I just ordered another 8GB there for my mac pro so now all banks are full

bank 1-2 = 4+4gig
bank 3-4 = 2+2gig
bank 5-6 = 1+1gig

and now bank 7-8 will have 4+4gig

giving me a total of 22 GB of ram 🙂 so all good again 🙂

[David Rowland]

they are back
http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/s … s/mac/imac

[Simon Strom]

I was using an AGP mac from 1998 up until about 2 years ago here at work! I think it had a 350 Mhz PPC chip in it. It would only bog down every once in a while. I’m on an G5 iMac 20" right now. It’s got 2 Gig of RAM. It does bog down in Illy CS4 sometimes. I just think that’s because Illy is a bloated piece of c#$!. I’ve found most Mac crashes happen because of a bad font though. Sometimes bad 3rd party RAM.

[Warren Beard]

Thought I would continue this same thread instead of starting a new one;

I am about to hire a full time artworker/helper so need to buy a new mac for them to use so thought I would pass my 27" imac down to them and get myself a new one and possibly even a Mac Pro but the only question I have at the minute is hard drives

there are options but unsure what makes them different

These are the option;

1TB Serial ATA Drive
2TB Serial ATA Drive [+ £120.00]
256GB Solid State Drive [+ £400.00]
1TB Serial ATA Drive + 256GB Solid State Drive [+ £480.00]
2TB Serial ATA Drive + 256GB Solid State Drive [+ £600.00]

What benefit is the SSD and why would you have both together?

cheers

Warren

[John Wilson]

Ssd is faster boot time, faster access speed

You would use both because you couldn’t afford a ssd drive big enough for your storage too

[Tim Painter]

Use the SSD as scratch / temp drive.

Although i assume (Not 100% sure) at some point the system will only be as quick as it’s slowest bottleneck in the processing process.

[Warren Beard]

OK so how does it work, store everything on the standard drive, will the mac automatically use the SSD drive, how does it work as I don’t understand?

cheers

[Simon Strom]

Hey Warren!, In a nutshell, the SATA ones are like the hard drives you’re use to with all the spinning bits. The newer solid state drives (SSD) are more closely related to something like a large thumb flash drive which have no moving parts. So the hard drive will be really stable and aren’t nearly as likely to crash. I’ve had 2 SATA hard drives at work and probably 5 fail at home over the last few years. The Solid State ones use less power also. The downside to the solid state is that 1.) they cost a lot more than a SATA drive. 2.) supposedly writing small files I/O can lag behind a fast SATA, but really large files will transfer much quicker on a SSD.

I’m simplifying it somewhat. You can go http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9134468/Review_Hard_disk_vs._solid_state_drive_is_an_SSD_worth_the_money_ to read more in depth if you want.

Incidentally I think OWC and some places offer kits for putting SSD’s in older Macs. http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/internal … e_Proother

Another option would also to be to get a larger SATA for inside the computer and a smaller external SSD for back up purposes. Good luck with whatever you choose. I’ve heard that the 2011 27" iMacs are benchmarked at nearly twice as fast as the 2010 27" iMacs! I might be getting one shortly for home. 😎

[Warren Beard]

Thanks Simon, after reading that I’m not sure it’s worth the extra expense right now

but what about a Raid drive and what are the benefits of them?

Promise Pegasus R4 4TB (4x1TB) RAID System is a possible upgrade to an imac?

cheers

Warren

[Simon Strom]

I’ve never used a RAID set-up, but from two IT people I know they personally aren’t fond of them. I think they are typically used for server storage and for backing up files. There are a few different types of RAID though. I’m not fully aware of why they don’t like using RAID. I guess there is some complexity in using it for one thing. It can make accessing data quicker from the server with a RAID set up. Our IT department uses an off site tape back up in case we have a fire or some other disaster that could destroy all of our files. It runs a few times a day. I suppose it could really depend on what exactly you need the RAID setup for though. Maybe someone with more of an IT background can give better advice.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/ou/raid-storage-explained/502

[Tim Painter]

Depends on how the Array is configured warren.
For speed, mirroring (encase of disc failure).

What programs do you run and what are you trying to achieve?

I don’t understand why you would want to us an SSD for backup simon.

[Simon Strom]

Sorry, I should have looked up the RAID you mentioned. If you need a lot of storage and fast I/O write times that might be a good option. Especially with the Thunderbolt port.

Hrmmmm 4TB! That’s a lot of movies! 😉

[Warren Beard]

I’m trying to open and save illustrator and photoshop files quicker. Am also looking to separate artwork files with all other business files and only give access to the one drive to the designer as I don’t want them accessing anything business related other than artwork files.

Cheers

[David Rowland]

I am watching the Hybrid SSD’s that are coming out now… thats what I want!!!

half harddrive and half memory/ssd, best of both worlds

Oh RAID 5 awesome

[Tim Painter]

I think Raid 5 would be your best bet Warren which the system you quoted can do.

RAID 5

Advantages

Read data transactions are very fast while write data transaction are somewhat slower (due to the parity that has to be calculated).
Disadvantages
Disk failures have an effect on throughput, although this is still acceptable.
Like RAID 3, this is complex technology.

Ideal use

RAID 5 is a good all-round system that combines efficient storage with excellent security and decent performance. It is ideal for file and application servers

[Tim Painter]

I assume in the Hybrid drives the SSD part acts as a speedy buffer dave?

[Simon Strom]

Warren, are you setting up a server also then or are you planning on using some other method for worker to access the art files? Just curious.

[Warren Beard]

I was hoping to only allow them sharing rights to a dedicated hard drive whether internal or external. Not sure yet if it’s possible or have to go the server route.

[Simon Strom]

Yeah, I think it’s possible to just share folders but might be a PIA. You can get the Server version of Lion for $50. I believe you could run that as your own personal desktop and as a server at the same time. The server software are actually add-on apps from Apple to the standard version of Lion. Just so you know it’s not a situation where you choose one over the other.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/server/

[David Rowland]

NAS Raid drives are an option

[Warren Beard]

That actually looks like a good option so make mine a server, not sure what it will do to the performance but presume not much, I think a trip to the apple store is needed. 😉

[Warren Beard]

quote Dave Rowland:

NAS Raid drives are an option

Only if you know why 🙄 😛

[David Rowland]

well i am still studying the NAS for the best.. but its basically a harddrive on a network that both machines can access

You just need them to be a RAID mirror so the data is safe

It is an option, less tech

[David Rowland]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5520/hita … nd-is-here

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5160/seag … hdd-review

SSD/Hybrid, its all starting to get faster 😀