Mounting a sign…. on your own!!

[Richard Urquhart]

i would say you need some help or you risk damaging the sign or getting it wrong

even at 8 feet its no easy task
although its not a massive sign i would not take the chance
you only need a small amount of wind to get under the sign and you will end up falling and dropping the sign
can you not just ask a mate to help
rich

[Dave & Rob Lowery]

I always use hilti hits for this type of job (single handed).

Drill 1 hole to suit in the frame, then one in the correct position in the wall and fit the hilti into it and hammer home. this will hold it in place whilst you can then drill and fix at your leisure.

[Nick Minall]

The way I do it is to drill all the holes in the board make sure you have a

hole in the top middle then drill the wall for the middle fixing

hold the board up with this one level it up and drill and fix them all.

Nick.

[Peter Normington]

Phil,
are you using a frame? or just fixing direct to the wall?
I do the same as Nick, Drill the top centre hole first.
Either put the the fixing screw in, or leave a drill or piece of rod in the hole to hang the sign/frame on.
Unless you are using decorative fixings I would also recommend Knock through plugs
Peter

[John Harding]

As Nick said but if you don’t need a centre fixing then just start on one corner, once secure easy to put a small level on top of the signs swing into level position mark your next hole on top opposite side and fix, then with hands free mark for holes on lower edge unscrew one of top fixings so you can swing sign out of the way of your marked holes drill screw and re-fix all corners.

Works a treat but still not as quick and easy as a second pair of hands, health and safety and all that malarkey.

John

[Richard Urquhart]

so am i right in thinking the sign is left hanging there on one fixing while you get down the ladder and move it to the other side so it can be fixed in the next corner ??
i see the idea i think I’m just over cautious and would worry while im getting down the ladder with the sign just fixed in that way the wind would get behind it and snap the acrylic
if it were dibond or foam board i think i would be fine

[Richard Urquhart]

sorry hit the quote button

[Brian Little]

hmm id say a big "no no" having said that im being a bit of a hypocrite because ive done it many a time…it ain’t easy when you work totally on your own.. i know.. but you got to think of safety here as well ….get someone to help you mate …pity we dont have arms five metres long !! 😀 😀

[Harry Cleary]

If I was doing this I would follow the recommendations above but I would use some panel grip, to stop the wind moving the sign as I shift ladders/scaffoldng around. The pink stuff has a brilliant instant grab and will hold the sign in place after you put in the centre fixing. Hope Im making sense.

[Phil Barnfield]

thanks for all your replies.

thinking of using some quick grab stuff as you say. failing that the idea of doing one in the middle and hanging it while i fix the others is a logical idea (dunno why i didnt think of something so simple!).

It isnt in a frame, but my client is going to get his joiner mate to make a lovely decorative edge to it…. 🙄

Hopefully, it will all go to plan 😉

[Peter Normington]

I would have thought it easier and more practical to install the surround/frame at the same time?
Phil, your first idea is also a valid method, but I screw a couple of pieces of alli frame on the wall first, to place the bottom of the panel in.
I then carry the panel under the ladder and drop it in place, then you can place a fixing at the top without coming down the ladder. I do this for 8×4 single handed mounting.
I do not condone this method, and at my age I should be getting a chap in to do it for me. 😉
There is only two other idiots apart from me, on the boards that I know of, using similar tactics and doing it alone. Hard man Gorman, and Mr "I’m independant" Phill Fenton
Peter

[Phil Barnfield]

sorry, didnt explain myself.

I had originally discussed with client about doing the job. In all fairness, he wanted it on the "cheap" to say the least. He provided me with the perspex, I flood coated it and vinyled it up. He said he wanted a 2" gap around the edge. My job just involves fixing it to wall. His joiner who is doing other work in his new unit, will be fixing some door archetrave (sp) around the finished product once it is mounted to wall.

Not an ideal solution as far as I am concerned. Foamex and Alu frame would of been far nicer, but hey, you cant win them all!!! 🙄

[Peter Normington]

sorry Phil.
Didnt realise you were talking perspex.
All the advise given is not the way to go, simply because acrylic is to brittle to hang on one point, it could well shatter,
I would not screw directy to the wall, but as its to late to change, oversize the holes in the sign, and use some sort off rubber/plastic sleeve.
Peter

[Mike Grant]

Sorry but to put my two penneth worth in as Pete says you should not fix perspex directly with screws, you should use the proper frame with it, if you are trying to be a respectable sign company it is your job to inform the customer the correct way to fix signs. Its these cowboy jobs that are putting strain on the good companies that do a professional job.

How is his chippy going to fix wooden batten to the perspex that is going to expand and contract?????

Sorry but I hate threads like this. (chat.) (:) (hot)

Sorry Phil not aimed at you directly, just a moan as I am getting so fed up with this industry.

[David Rogers]

quote Phil Barnfield:

…..Not an ideal solution as far as I am concerned. Foamex and Alu frame would of been far nicer, but hey, you cant win them all!!! 🙄

Silver anodised alloy frame is about £18 a length (6m) – add in a couple of corners (£2) and you can have a cracking sign (not literally) – installed correctly and easily for £20 cost. – Marked up by what ever you fancy as he’s not going to get his joiner to do a half-assed framing job for any less than say, £40.

Dave

[Phil Barnfield]

Sign went up no drama’s, all on my own too, using some skill hands, ladder trickery and some rather strong tape!!! hehe

I do appreciate what you are saying above. Perhaps I am a cowboy :lol1: Seriously, I did put this to the customer, but a very tight pocket made the deal. Wont be my fault when it goes pear shaped.. he cant say I didnt tell him so!!

Did two other signs, one standing by two posts which has gone just right to plan, and also an A Board…… which I might had he wanted his best buddy pal joiner to make one out of MDF (of all materials). I told him I wouldnt touch it unless it was a proper aluminium or steel one. Strangely enough he listened to me on that occassion.

Thanks for the advice given. Will certainly bear it in mind as using a frame is far easier than running up and down ladders and balancing a rather large sheet of perspex in some funny ways (honestly it was totally safe….!).

Cheers, Phil 😛

[Peter Normington]

Phil,
Glad you got it sorted,

MDF is not that silly, there is an exterior version (medite I think its called)
not cheap but when treated it is fine outdoors.

Peter

[Robert Lambie]

Medite has its uses, but for signs i just wouldnt go there…
everythig has to be sealed and all edges of the sign should have radious routered on them, coated, plained and coated again then gloss coats etc etc more hassle than its worth i think…
yes, this stuff obviously works IF done 101% correct. but why go to all that bother? its "heavy as hell" and if done wrong it will pulp where water can get in and become heavier. if it doesnt do your back in lifting it into place, it will kill your customer when it comes down on them :lol1: :lol1:

ok medite chip off my shoulder now :lol1: :lol1: :lol1:

[John Childs]

And there’s nothng wrong with a joiner making a timber frame for a sign, in many ways it would be better than Panatrim, but the option is there to make it so that the acrylic floats inside the frame rather than being screwed directly to the wall.

[Peter Normington]

Rob, we were talking A boards not for big signs, Cherwell do an A board with ally frame and exterior mdf, with an A board the weight is sometimes an advantage…It dosnt blow away in the wind?

Peter

[Mike Grant]

quote John Childs:

the option is there to make it so that the acrylic floats inside the frame rather than being screwed directly to the wall.

Point taken but would the chippy have that knowledge up his sleeve when a lot of sign companies don’t even know how to do it properly.
I would doubt it.

[Robert Lambie]

ahh sorry peter, i was talking signs as in wall signs and flat cut letters.
if incased in alluminium frame then fair do, as i guess it will protect the edges of the sign from being exposed to water etc
that said…
lets say the sign gets knocked over as they often do… board face gets scored and in goes the moisture… up comes the puff pastry. 😕
i am maybe over exagerating it, maybe not… but i did a bit of googling on it a couple of years ago and how it should be sealed etc and it just seemed far too much hassle for the use of a board so heavy, not that inexpensive and has all these draw backs if not used properly.

[Peter Normington]

Rob you are correct, medite(trade name I think) is not good for exterior use, but there is an exterior grade mdf or rather hdf. I cant remember the name off hand, (Someone will remind me I’m sure) but it is waterproof and very strong, it is used for the floorboards on flatbed trailers,

Peter

[John Childs]

quote Mike Grant:

Point taken but would the chippy have that knowledge up his sleeve when a lot of sign companies don’t even know how to do it properly.

I see where you are coming from Mike, and don’t totally disagree, but I would have thought that any reasonably competent chippy, when the problems are explained, should be able to come up with something suitable.

If not, a little sketch on the back of a fag packet should produce the required result. 😀

I take your ppoint though. If the sign company doesn’t know then what chance does the chippy have? 🙁

added on edit: I don’t believe it. The obscenity filter got me. OK then "the back of a f@g packet"!!!!!

[Peter Normington]

John, you really must wash your mouth out!
stop calling a fa g a fag, much better to call them homosexual packets! 😉

Peter

[John Childs]

Peter,

You are talkiing to the guy who, having finished his meal in an American restaurant, stands up and announces that he is stepping outside for a quick f@g.

The looks on the faces of the other diners is a picture to treasure. 😀

Anyway, back to acrylic and the coefficient of expansion thereof…..

[Peter Normington]

For those interested, look at the figures for plastics

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/linea … -d_95.html

as compared to dibond

http://www.bayplastics.co.uk/data%20she … dibond.htm

Peter

[Robert Lambie]

not forgetting the health issues/dangers relating to working with MDF. is it really worth it?

[Peter Normington]

quote Robert Lambie:

not forgetting the health issues/dangers relating to working with MDF. is it really worth it?

So what do all the kitchen manufacturers do then? (its only a bit of wood)
I dont think its any more dangerous than solvent inks?
any way if you are really sad, this is even better
for info
http://www.matweb.com/index.asp?ckck=1

Peter

[Robert Lambie]

i have a cousin who is a joiner…"very good at his job"
a few years ago he was building a cabinet. after a rubb down with some sand paper he gave a shelf a quick blow to rid the dust. it blown back in his face and in his eyes. cut it short… couple of months later he had to sign off working for good… he now walks with a white stick.
doctors say this sort of thing, amongst others is common with mdf but no hullabaloo is made.
a bit like what i was told by a top doctor after having to have a cat scan because of pains in my head as a result of mobile phones. 😕

[Phil Barnfield]

nice to see the thread escalated into some light hearted humour!!! :lol1: :lol1:

APPOLOGIES to Rob, didnt read your post. In this case, its never funny – been in a similar situation before myself.

[Peter Normington]

quote Robert Lambie:

i have a cousin who is a joiner…”very good at his job”
a few years ago he was building a cabinet. after a rubb down with some sand paper he gave a shelf a quick blow to rid the dust. it blown back in his face and in his eyes. cut it short… couple of months later he had to sign off working for good… he now walks with a white stick.
doctors say this sort of thing, amongst others is common with mdf but no hullabaloo is made.
a bit like what i was told by a top doctor after having to have a cat scan because of pains in my head as a result of mobile phones. 😕

Rob sorry to hear about your cousin, was that specifically the mdf, or could it have happened with other materials that get in your eyes? such as some of the solvents and glues used in the sign industry? or fine dust say from signfoam? It does however point out the importance of using eye protection when doing any sanding, grinding etc.

Peter

[John Childs]

Peter,

It’s MDF and all the cr@p that goes into it’s manufacture.

MDF will be the new asbestos. 🙁

[Harry Cleary]

The first version of MDF had quantities of formaldehyde in it (a known carcenogenic) but this is now banned. However I would never use it without a mask, and the dust is lethal in the event of a fire. I have to say though that the Medite stuff has given me good results without the hassle Rob talks about.