Looking for vinyl!

[John Gregson]

Hi :lol1:

[Garethed90]

hi, i take it that you are in this business have you heard of it or used it ??? (!)

[David Rogers]

quote Garethed90:

hi, i take it that you are in this business have you heard of it or used it ??? (!)

It’s been asked for a few times. The simple answer is…

Pop over the the ‘say hello’ section. Introduce yourself – give a bit of background…are you a signmaker with 40 years experience, a chip shop owner or a race team that’s bought a plotter. Goes a long way. 😎

…you do get it but there are far, far simpler solutions to buying hi-temp material.

Dave

[John Gregson]

Hi Garethed90,
You’ll get a better response if you do a post with a little bit about yourself/company using your real name.

Your current vinyl supplier will be able to offer advice on heat and adhesion regarding brake calipers.

Cheers John

[Garethed90]

Hi i will post a hello post in a minute, i need information for this pretty quickly so any help will be greatly appreciated

Gaz.

[John Gregson]

sorry – don’t have any info on this type of vinyl.

[Garethed90]

quote John Gregson:

Hi Garethed90,
You’ll get a better response if you do a post with a little bit about yourself/company using your real name.

Your current vinyl supplier will be able to offer advice on heat and adhesion regarding brake calipers.

Cheers John

Hi john,
my suppliers have no stock that will handle heat above 120Celsiuss i have spoken to alot of other supliers and no joy neither.

[David Rogers]

quote Garethed90:

Hi i will post a hello post in a minute, i need information for this pretty quickly so any help will be greatly appreciated

Gaz.

Cut a mask in ANY vinyl you have lying about. Hi-Temp (funnily enough) caliper paint – wait for it to partially dry…peel off mask.

Ta da!

Not too many vinyls can handle high temps…well not caliper temps for the enthusiastic driver.

Best contacting your seller to see what they have. Good quality vinyls last a fair while…really depends on how hot they get.

Dave

[John Gregson]

I did print some stuff years ago but it was supplied by a client. It was a lot thicker and heavier than standard vinyl.

Have you tried Amari or Robert Hornes, theyt may be able to help

Cheers John

[Jason Davies]

There are some military vinyls available that will do this but I’d go with Dave on this, best solution

[Garethed90]

quote John Gregson:

I did print some stuff years ago but it was supplied by a client. It was a lot thicker and heavier than standard vinyl.

Have you tried Amari or Robert Hornes, theyt may be able to help

Cheers John

Not tried Robert Hornes but i try to stay away from amari unless it is for plastic sheets because their vinyl is extremely expensive.

[Garethed90]

The idea was to sell the decals to just apply to the caliper its self.
I know this sort of vinyl must exist as the decals are being sold on ebay and being advertised to be cut from (heat resistant vinyl) its just nobody seems to sell it.

Gaz.

[Jason Davies]

Hi Gareth, I wouldn’t believe everything you read on fleeeeebay

[Garethed90]

quote Jason Davies:

Hi Gareth, I wouldn’t believe everything you read on fleeeeebay

Yes but surely they would have complaints about melting and burning decals??

[Jason Davies]

As Dave said a good quality vinyl should present no problems, I’d buy some and try it out on my car first, I bought a set from Porsche the other day and these were 3M

[Garethed90]

quote Jason Davies:

As Dave said a good quality vinyl should present no problems, I’d buy some and try it out on my car first, I bought a set from Porsche the other day and these were 3M

In the 3M range the maximum heat resistance of their vinyl is 120 celcius i have baught some brembo ones off ebbay in hope to read the lettering on the back of the vinyl, still waiting for them to arrive.

[Jason Davies]

dunno then, these are the ones recommended by these guys, I wouldn’t think you’d find any hotter calipers.

[Garethed90]

quote Jason Davies:

dunno then, these are the ones recommended by these guys, I wouldn’t think you’d find any hotter calipers.

Did it say on the back the type of 3M vinyl that was used.
Thanks Alot
Gareth.

[Jason Davies]

didn’t pay that much attention, I know that 3M is also used for stoneguards as well.

[Garethed90]

There must be a vinyl that is heat resistant for exhaust decals. The problem is finding it.

[Adam McGuire]

I think you’ll find a good vinyl will be ok on brake callipers. As far as I am aware, the brake caliper doesn’t get very hot at all, nowhere near the temp of the disc or pad surface. I’m going to try some cast vinyl on the Nissan GTR I’m working on, and I’ll let you know. May be a couple of days before I can get it out on the road to test it though.

[Peter Normington]

How hot does a caliper get?
if you know the answer, then maybe spec sheets will tell you which vinyl is suitable

Peter

[John Childs]

quote Peter Normington:

How hot does a caliper get?

I don’t know Peter, but it can’t be ridiculously hot because if the brake fluid boils, then no brakes.

[Peter Normington]

quote John Childs:

quote Peter Normington:

How hot does a caliper get?

I don’t know Peter, but it can’t be ridiculously hot because if the brake fluid boils, then no brakes.

Quite right John

Peter

[John Childs]

Good old Google. 😀

"By definition, DOT 3 fluids must have a minimum dry boiling point (measured with 0% water by volume) of 401F and a minimum wet boiling point (measured with 3.7% water by volume) of 284F."

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_br … d_1a.shtml

So caliper temperatures got to be, allowing for a reasonable safety margin, a lot lower than the temps quoted in that article.

[Garethed90]

So do you think that a cast vinyl with 120 celcius will be fine. ?

I asked how hot calipers get on an alfa romeo forum and a few of the guys on there have had their calipers turn a differant colour when driving tho.

Gaz.

[Chris Wool]

quote :

few of the guys on there have had their calipers turn a differant colour when driving tho

there are drivers and screw drivers 😉

[Garethed90]

Yeah but when you’ve got a 3.2 V6 under the bonnet its hard not too :lol1:

[John Childs]

quote Garethed90:

Yeah but when you’ve got a 3.2 V6 under the bonnet its hard not too :lol1:

Well, yes. With an engine that small you have to thrash it to keep up any sort of progress. 😀

120 C ? Is that what the spec sheets say? We heat vinyls to that sort of temperature on the sides of vans, never mind on brake bits.

[Garethed90]

small engine 😮 what engine is in your car lol.
Yeah 120 c max temp adhered to aluminum.

[John Childs]

quote Garethed90:

small engine 😮 what engine is in your car lol..

Yeah, small, for a car.

Even my bike’s got a 1.8 litre six pot. 😀

[Garethed90]

1.8, in a bike 😮 whats the hp on it ??

[John Childs]

quote Garethed90:

1.8, in a bike 😮 whats the hp on it ??

Not many – it’s not that sort of bike. From memory 128bhp.

My small bike is only 1.5 litre. Still a six cylinder though. 😀

[David Rogers]

quote Garethed90:

So do you think that a cast vinyl with 120 celcius will be fine. ?

I asked how hot calipers get on an alfa romeo forum and a few of the guys on there have had their calipers turn a differant colour when driving tho.

Gaz.

Gaz, I can get my disks hot enough to burn skin…on my push bike…

It’s all about energy conversions – all of that kinetic energy has to turn into heat during the braking. If repeated hard braking – the heat will just build up in the disks & pads/calipers…a ‘spirited’ drive with hard braking will cook most peoples brakes that aren’t designed to disperse the heat or operate at high temps.

3.2 V6…not a huge engine power wise if N/A (210-220bhp?) might push a touch over 300 ish if turbo’d or supercharged. Also depends what it’s in 🙂 for power to weight…

Had a load of V6 omegas and a couple of V8 jags…they all might have ‘larger’ engines (by most peoples standards), but as they cars weight a helluva lot…performace and handling can be a bit down on a boy-racer 2.0 turbo fiesta!

Back to the vinyl…get a sample from your supplier (will send you a freebie A4 in an envelope at the worst) and try it out…you’ve lost nothing but gained experience.

Dave

[Garethed90]

quote David Rogers:

quote Garethed90:

So do you think that a cast vinyl with 120 celcius will be fine. ?

I asked how hot calipers get on an alfa romeo forum and a few of the guys on there have had their calipers turn a differant colour when driving tho.

Gaz.

Gaz, I can get my disks hot enough to burn skin…on my push bike…

It’s all about energy conversions – all of that kinetic energy has to turn into heat during the braking. If repeated hard braking – the heat will just build up in the disks & pads/calipers…a ‘spirited’ drive with hard braking will cook most peoples brakes that aren’t designed to disperse the heat or operate at high temps.

3.2 V6…not a huge engine power wise if N/A (210-220bhp?) might push a touch over 300 ish if turbo’d or supercharged. Also depends what it’s in 🙂 for power to weight…

Had a load of V6 omegas and a couple of V8 jags…they all might have ‘larger’ engines (by most peoples standards), but as they cars weight a helluva lot…performace and handling can be a bit down on a boy-racer 2.0 turbo fiesta!

Back to the vinyl…get a sample from your supplier (will send you a freebie A4 in an envelope at the worst) and try it out…you’ve lost nothing but gained experience.

Dave

250bhp naturally aspirated actually 😛 in a hatchback by my standards is bloody quick.

but yeah i will try a bit of 3m vinyl or something and see how it holds up.

Gaz.

[Jason Davies]

Have you thought about copyright issues, if you are going to be producing and selling these on fleeeebay, how are you going to meet these regulations???

Just a thought??

[Garethed90]

same as everybody else………….ermm…
I will have to look into that.
Something Along the lines of
These decals are not made or associated with the company that the logo represents. No intent to infringe copyright is intended and is not intended to deceive these are not officially endorsed
😕

[Jason Davies]

Okay, I think you’ll find that that’s no protection.

[Garethed90]

I didn’t think copyright laws come into effect unless you were trying to trade or sell something under the trading name. which i am not I’m just printing off words in the same font as that of the manufactures logo ;P

[John Childs]

quote Garethed90:

I didn’t think copyright laws come into effect unless you were trying to trade or sell something under the trading name. which i am not I’m just printing off words in the same font as that of the manufactures logo ;P

Doesn’t work like that Gareth.

I think you need a bit more research in that area. A search for "copyright" on this board would be a good start.

[Garethed90]

I wouldnt have thaught that lets say "brembo" would be bothered by people advertising their company……it can only be a good thing surely, If somebody was advertising my company for me i certainly wouldnt prosecute them for it. But the laws may well and probably will say otherwise.

[Jason Davies]

I wouldn’t want my company to be associated with fleeebay, you can always ask them to grant a license to allow you to produce them.

[Garethed90]

quote Jason Davies:

I wouldn’t want my company to be associated with fleeebay, you can always ask them to grant a license to allow you to produce them.

I wouldn’t say that it was being associated with eBay at all. Ford wouldn’t have a problem if you sold a fiesta on eBay.

[Jason Davies]

Agreed, because you are not profiting from their corporate trademark, incidentally Ford vigorously pursue individuals who infringe their copyright. Again you can apply to the company to sell products using their trademark provided you use specific materials.

[Garethed90]

quote Jason Davies:

Agreed, because you are not profiting from their corporate trademark, incidentally Ford vigorously pursue individuals who infringe their copyright. Again you can apply to the company to sell products using their trademark provided you use specific materials.

I don’t think i will bother with the idea at all now by the time i contact all car manufacturers to ask them to allow me to use their logo i don’t think that it will be worth it to be honest.

[Peter Normington]

Well you weren’t going to make more than a few quid ,
most fancy calipers come branded anyway.
How much do you think you can sell a couple of small decals for on fleabay to compete with the rest of them?
Peter

[Marc Binnie]

just as a wee reference, the mini’s i work on can ruin a brand new road tyre in 8 laps of knockhill race circuit,

yet the calipers are not too hot to handle (just!)

the pads and discs however are almost glowing!

if your supplier says safe to 120C then i reckon it should be ok,

i’ll try and get a decent laser temp measurement the of caliper outer temp this weekend after a race,

watch this space……… :lol1:

[Phill Fenton]

My brother in law got me to cut out Porsche lettering to stick on the calipers of his 944. I used 751 vinyl and it has lasted ok despite the fact he drives like a lunatic 😕

[Graeme Harrold]

quote Phill:

My brother in law got me to cut out Porsche lettering to stick on the calipers of his 944. I used 751 vinyl and it has lasted ok despite the fact he drives like a lunatic 😕

Most lunatics dont use the brakes :lol1: :lol1:

Race calipers will get bloody hot especially if using carbon composite discs as they must be hot to work properly. Even std steels will produce enough heat to vapourise water in brake fluid……(thats why its changed every 2 yeard on standard cars). Most calipers Ive worked with, have had cast logos/lettering and then PAINTED!!!!

[Garethed90]

quote Phill:

My brother in law got me to cut out Porsche lettering to stick on the calipers of his 944. I used 751 vinyl and it has lasted ok despite the fact he drives like a lunatic 😕

751 is this oracal vinyl?? this was the one that can withstand upto 120 c.
I bought some off a ebay seller and on the back of the vinyl it said JAC i have done a searck on this and the best vinyl i can find by jac has a max temp of 110 c.

But i put that decal alongside the same decal i cut from the vinyl i use to a piece of foil, then heated the foil up using an infra red heater and the ones i bought off eBay advertised as being cut in heat resistant vinyl fared alot batter than the ones i did.

[Garethed90]

quote Peter Normington:

Well you weren’t going to make more than a few quid ,
most fancy calipers come branded anyway.
How much do you think you can sell a couple of small decals for on fleabay to compete with the rest of them?
Peter

Yes you are right about they will only be worth a few quid on ebay, but take into account quantity vs expense. you will get hundreds of small decals form a 1 meter X 610mm sheet of vinyl although alot of weeding work there is very little artwork.

I sold quicksilver stickers on ebay about a year ago.
3X quicksilver stickers for Peugeot 106’s and was making a tidy few hundred quid a month extra for very minimal work.

[Phill Fenton]

quote Garethed90:

751 is this oracal vinyl??

Yup 😀