logo design – do i own the copyright?? Or do they?

[Robert Lambie]

quote Kate and Danny:

However, was it ever mine to give away? 🙁

Danny

it was until you "sold it" to be used for printing etc
if you charge someone for something you have sold it to be used. they now can use it, selling it for a specific use must be drawn up properly in a contract. regardless, you cannot take it away/claim it further down the line…
personally, these days it is better to sell it and get something for it because the way things go it will be copied at some stage and you will get nothing. chasing the copyright will be expensive unless you have good amunition and lawyer.

i have recently appointed a new lawyer that specialises in this sort of thing. these type are not cheap by any means, but… the difference i have found dealing with them as oppossed to your high street type lawyers is night and day.

[Shane Drew]

Danny, if you design it, it is yours, until you decide to pass the copyright over.

When I invoice a job, my invoice states that the copyright is not automatically transfered with the payment of the bill.

That said, I will charge them for the logo and include giving the copyright to them, because they only get someone else to copy it anyway, and what good is it to you to own copyright but never get another job.

By passing over the copyright, you can charge them for the logo creation and get a fair price for your effort.

By keeping the copyright you may not ever get another job, so the design has no value anymore.

does that make sense 😕

[Shane Drew]

😕 robs a faster typer than me

[Nigel Pugh]

quote Shane Drew:

😕 robs a faster typer than me

Thats because he is closer to the keyboard Shane :lol1:

[David Rowland]

LMAO!

[Shane Drew]

quote Nigel Pugh – Grafityp:

quote Shane Drew:

😕 robs a faster typer than me

Thats because he is closer to the keyboard Shane :lol1:

😮 :rofl:

[David Rowland]

i suspect he’s got some booster cushions :lol1: :lol1:

[Ramj]

He’s got a swivel high chair, custom made, uses it for eating his lunch too

[Robert Lambie]

just for your information… here is a picture of the luxury chair i use for my pc and office work..

[Martin Cole]

quote Robert Lambie:

just for your information… here is a picture of the luxury chair i use for my pc and office work..

:rofl: :rofl: Excellent

I want one 😀

[Glen Mathers]

I hope that image is’nt under copyright Rob 😀

[Brian Little]

Rob ….you got the bib to go with it or was that an optional extra 😀

[Dave Bruce]

i recently contacted the FSB lawyers regarding copyright and they were pretty useless. I have a customer who wants me to do their printing, but their logo was designed by another graphic designer, I have told them unless they bought the logo or get permission from the other company I can’t help them.

Quite difficult for the customer because they don’t want to deal with the other company due to poor work/relations, effectively if they don’t get permission to use the logo they are going to have to get a new logo from me and change all their livery etc.

Dave

[Lynn Normington]

Dave I would ask your customer to come to an agreement with former designer to allow you to use/change as you like.

Lynn

[Peter Normington]

I would always ask the question, did the designer get paid for the original work? if so the copyright would pass to the payee, unless a contract to say different was signed before any payment was made. Its always a point of possesion, If the company already have all their livery and corporate stuff in the design, by default, they would also own the copyright,
Any designer is within their rights to protect copyright, but a company would be silly to leave copyright with the designer, once the job has been done.

Peter

[Dave Bruce]

As standard with the other company, they always retained copyright (said so on the invoice) but that company has now been taken over by another and thus copyright goes to them.
I will keep my fingers crossed they give the customer permission to use their logo.
If the company already have all their livery and corporate stuff in the design, by default, they would also own the copyright
Not sure I understand that Peter, as surely they need to buy it from the designer at the start.

Dave

[Peter Normington]

Dave I am not a lawyer, but if as company has been operating for a number of years, using the logo, especially if well known in the same geographic area as the designer. In the absence of any signed agreement in favour of the designer, any court would or should deem it reasonable to assume that the designer had passed copyright to the company, when the first design was paid for.

Just my logical thoughts, is the original designer objecting to the use of the design? if not I would just get on with it. Its like saying BT or Sky cannot use their logos because they fell out with the designer.

Peter

[Dave Bruce]

Peter, no one is objecting as yet but I do not want to be caught out as I am sure the new ‘owner’ of the design will take me to court if he found out I had copied it. He took a girl to court because she was printing business cards on her inkjet printer at home and undercutting his prices, needless to say it was thrown out of court for wasting time.

I would rather pass on the job and stay legal.

Cheers

Dave

[Peter Normington]

Dave, sorry I dont think I am quite understanding what you are saying.
If a company has been taken over and they own the copyright, why would the company you are doing the print for want to copy it? If you are given the design to produce, just get the customer to sign a declaration that they own any copyright contained therein, that way you have done what is reasonable to stay within the law. Now if they have asked you to blatantly copy someone elses design, thats different.

Peter

[Dave Bruce]

Sorry Peter it is a little difficult to explain without names, lets have a go.

Company A designs logo (keeps copyright) years later sells company to Guy B (who automatically aquires copyright) Guy B does some printing for Customer F, year later Guy B sells company to Guy C(Already a printing company, and automatically aquires copyright). Customer F does not do business with Guy C, so wants me to do printing.

I have spoken to the original designer of Company A and they confirm the copyright was not bought by the Customer F.

That should clear that up.

The fact that Guy B actually copied one of my designs (after threatening to take me to court if I copied any of his designs), does not give me the right to get one back, and anyway it is now owned by Guy C who has more presence, if you know what I mean.

Dave

[Peter Normington]

Far to complicated for me, at this time of night! Sound like Hassle anyway, so probably best to back off. But follow your own instincts

Peter

[Dave Bruce]

Cheers Peter, right enough you look a bit tired 😉

[David Rogers]

It’s a tricky one eh?!

I’ve always taken the approach that if a company commissions artwork and pays for it – it’s theirs.
If it is ‘free’ or ‘included’ in the price of the job – ownership has changed to the purchaser.
I’ve often made a few extra quid by ‘selling’ usable artwork eg. jpgs for web or Word documents on a CD – transferring ownership to them. I like to think that they won’t go elsewhere due to the service they get, but enevitably one or two will get a better price…. 🙄 No way I part with vector art though – makes it far too easy to switch camp!
Only if it is clearly stated from the outset that the client has NO rights (including ‘fair use’) or control over this version of their own logo or company image (WHO in their right mind would agree to THAT!!) – which I bet would be a can o’ worms in court as it’s essentially a blackmail / extortion attempt by that graphics company to allow them (the other company) to remain trading in it’s present form.
If you get the client to sign a waiver stating they are the legal owner of the artwork and grant permission for you to reproduce it, it will keep you pretty much in the clear as you showed ‘diligence’.

Dave