Light weight sign material required

[David Rogers]

3mm ‘Di-bond’ – light strong & won’t warp.

3m is standard sheet size too…and you’ll be left with a nice sized offcut!

Dave

[Martin Pearson]

Warren when you say pollycarb I take it you mean acrylic. Either way I think you will find that di.bond is lighter and probably more suitable as acrylic is quite brittle. How do you intend to secure/fix it as this may also play a part. If you can’t apply vinyl directly to the canopy at all have you thought about maybe something at the top of the shops windows instead.

[Warren Beard]

Hi Martin

I think I might have my terminology wrong, in SA we call all these things by different names and it gets a bit confusing sometimes.

Acrylic is the same as perspex (wright or wrong?)

I went to Wickes hardware store and they have polycarbonate sheets (looks like corrugated board but is plastic, used for roofing and greenhouses etc.)

I may be totally wrong looking at this stuff but thought it would work well outdoors and last a long time due to the applications it is made for, and is fairly light. I thought it might be lighter than Di-bond?????

Is Polycarbonate another name for acrylic/perspex or am I well confused and should get me coat 😳

Thanks

Warren

[Jill Marie Welsh]

Have you ever considered making one on Sunbrella awning material using silk screen inks, and adhered with Velcro to the existing awning?
That way nobody will be decapitated if it falls!
Love….Jill

[Warren Beard]

quote Jillbeans:

That way nobody will be decapitated if it falls! 😮 😮 😮

That’s why I want it really light.

the problem with it going on the awning is that it is only used in Summer and does not look that nice, it’s a bit old and stained.

I will have to use Di-Bond or the plastic polycarbonate sheeting I saw, which ever is lighter.

Thanks any way Jill

Warren

[Andy Gorman]

Just to clear this up, Acrylic and perspex are the same thing. Polycarbonate is another material entirely. It looks like acrylic, but polycarbonate is unbreakable (virtually).

[Lorraine Clinch]

Just can’t get my head round how using sheet material will work. Any size of Dibond is going to hurt when (as it invariably will) it falls on some poor mug.
The only option I can think of would be similar to Jill’s idea. I would use a banner & velcro it it place.

[Warren Beard]

Hi Guys

this is the stuff I was looking at

is it wrong to use this and will Di-Bond be better/lighter

Thanks

Warren

[Andy Gorman]

I can’t quite picture the way you are fixing this, but anyway, that is Thermoclear. It is polycarb, very strong and lightweight. Put it this way, I would rather that fell on me than any other solid rigid panel!

[Chris Windebank]

that material shown is twinwall used for conservatory roofs, you can get that from Amari Plastics. As for Di Bond, they also do reynaband, same stuff, a little cheaper and smaller sheet sizes I believe
Hope that helps Warren

[Jill Marie Welsh]

Looks like clear Correx to me…if so, that won’t last very long!
Love….Jill

[Warren Beard]

Here is a quick diagram I did to show how I would fix it

I think it will work OK and if I use enough rivets it should hold OK.

I will cover the rivets with vinyl so you cannot see them on the face (any tips welcome)

Thanks

Warren

[Glenn Sharp]

are you fixing this to the retracted awning or is it pulled out?

would a banner not do the job?

[Warren Beard]

quote glenn:

are you fixing this to the retracted awning or is it pulled out? would a banner not do the job?

Hi Glenn

Customer does not want a banner, beleive me I tried, he is on the high street so want to try make it look as good as possible (although does not want to spend big £££’s – normal story)

The face of the awning is always clear of any obsticles whether it is in or out so will always be visible.

cheers

Warren

[Jill Marie Welsh]

If the awning is aluminum, can you not simply apply vinyl lettering to it?
Or am I missing something?
I would explain the cost of doing the job right over the damages that could be filed in an injury lawsuit.
Love….Jill

[Warren Beard]

Hi Guys

Sorry I’ve been away, went to take pictures so I can show you what it looks like.

You can see the slit where an extension to the canopy slides in, this makes me believe it has some strength, and when pulling on it it is also fairly stiff. The area with the red cross is where he wanted to put a sign but as it’s a grade 2 listed building they have rejected it. the green area is the area he wants it on the canopy.

Any suggestions are welcome.

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[Glenn Sharp]

Warren,

sorry to go off on a tangent but is fitting to the top of the canopy box not an option…. you’d get a bigger sign there with a stronger fix

[Warren Beard]

quote glenn:

Warren,

sorry to go off on a tangent but is fitting to the top of the canopy box not an option…. you’d get a bigger sign there with a stronger fix

Hi Glen, the top section is weaker than the bottom section. It also falls under the window ledge thingy part of the building that is just above the canopy.

cheers

Warren

[Martin Pearson]

Oh look some pictures so people have a better idea what you want to do Warren, thats a clever idea, well done 🙄

[Jill Marie Welsh]

I’d totally ditch the canopy idea and sell him some flashy window lettering.
That thing (based on the thing it comes out of) looks to be on its last leg!
Better safe than sorry.
Love….Jill

[Dave Harrison]

You could use 2mm / 3mm dibond / reynobond if you keep the height to say no more than 300mm, but for a single 3m sheet you won’t get much change from £100. You say this guy is on a tight budget is there going to be enough left to make a profit. ( unless you can find a local sign company with some dibond off cuts ? )
Where abouts are you ?

I would have to advise the same as Jill though, the canopy looks like its on its last legs. .. can’t you try to sell him something else ?

[Martin Pearson]

can we refrain from talking about legs please as it’s very disturbing 😛

Warren have you any idea what sort of budget this customer has or hasn’t he mentioned figures to you? As Dave says a sheet of Di-bond at 3 mtrs is going to cost a bit and although you will still have most of the sheet left to use on other jobs you still really need to make a profit on this one so the cost of the whole sheet should really be included.

[Warren Beard]

quote martin:

Oh look some pictures so people have a better idea what you want to do Warren, that’s a clever idea, well done 🙄

😳 :lol1: I know, isn’t it weird how these ideas just come to me (thanks Martin)

I agree it looks a bit dodgy and am trying to change his mind but he wants something on his window as well.

His budget is £250 and that includes the window graphics (just his name and tel no) I agreed to do it at that price as I need to get my name out there and knew I would at least make a small profit and the fact it’s on the high street so there is good exposure (he said I can put my name on it)

Do you think it would be better to refuse doing something on the canopy and try get him to go for a more attractive window graphic?

I now think so as you guys know best.

Thanks

Warren

[Jill Marie Welsh]

quote :

Do you think it would be better to refuse doing something on the canopy and try get him to go for a more attractive window graphic?

Hell yes!
😀
It will show up just as nicely and look more professional.
Love….Jill

[Warren Beard]

quote Jillbeans:

quote :

Do you think it would be better to refuse doing something on the canopy and try get him to go for a more attractive window graphic?

Hell yes!
😀
It will show up just as nicely and look more professional.
Love….Jill

Jill, you are so sweet, I’m going to give you a BIG hug if I ever get to meet you 😳 (angel)

[Warren Beard]

Hi Guys

In case the customer insists he wants this sign on his canopy what material do you suggest I use.

Can I use the Polycarbonate roof sheeting as per pic I inserted in earlier post
or
is Di-Bond a lightly more durable substrate?

If the customer insists on it I would like to be able to offer him something instead of saying I don’t know ( or thanks but no thanks 🙁 )

Thanks again guys

Warren

[Peter Mindham]

Warren
What is the business?

From the pics. it looks like you might have some space at the lower part of the window to play with which is obscured by stuff inside. (does that make sense?)

We have done a few windows with the etch products which look very good, come in a range of colours and let loads of light into the store front. These may be of interest. They are great to apply as long as you CLEAN the glass at least three times. I use Avery cleaner with a razor blade to get ALL the grime etc.

A nice window will look much better than the awning. Make him a draft design using a picture of his store. That might just sway him.

Good luck!

Peter`

[Warren Beard]

Hi Peter

Thanks for the reply.

It is a cafe.

I am going to do a design for his window, there is a clock tower in the market square by his shop (hence the name of his shop is Clock Tower Cafe) I am going to use the pic to make an abstract design to fit his front window with his name and hope to persuade him away from the sign on the canopy.

BUT

If he still insists I need to come up with something to make it look like I know what I am doing, if you know what I mean.

Cheers

Warren

[Peter Mindham]

Hi Warren

If you have to put a sign up top, I would use di bond and attach as you have suggested. I would really push the ‘smart window’ approach if possible. But at the end of the day, it is his business and if you don’t put the sign up someone else will! A dilemma, especially when the ‘New kid on the Block’!

I think there is however, a liability issue here even for you, as you installed the sign. I am sure others will have more educated views than I on that subject, but don’t leave yourself open to a liability suit just to get this job. There will be always be another job tomorrow!

Peter

[Warren Beard]

quote Peter Mindham:

I think there is however, a liability issue here even for you, as you installed the sign. There will be always be another job tomorrow!
Peter

both these comments are very true, I think I will advise him against it and if I can’t get him to agree or go with only window graphics I think I will leave this to somebody else to take the risk. After all, if it ends up being a bad looking job because of what he wants I don’t want people to know I did it and then all this hassle is for nothing.

Thanks again Peter

Warren

[Peter Mindham]

Warren
Anytime mate.
If you get the gig lets see the window after?

Cheers peter

[Harry Cleary]

Be very firm about not doing it Warren, explaining that it’s your reputation and that you have standards, most reasonable clients will respect that. if he does’nt take your advice by the looks of the nipper in your avatar, you have enough things to keep you awake at night! 😀

[Warren Beard]

quote Peter Mindham:

Warren
Anytime mate.
If you get the gig lets see the window after?

Cheers peter

absolutely will Peter, watch this space 😀

Thanks again

Warren

[Peter Mindham]

I thought Warren had the hat on? 😉

[Warren Beard]

quote Harry Cleary:

Be very firm about not doing it Warren, explaining that it’s your reputation and that you have standards, most reasonable clients will respect that. if he does’nt take your advice by the looks of the nipper in your avatar, you have enough things to keep you awake at night! 😀

I couldn’t have said it better Harry, and the poor nipper is sick at the moment so it is up every hour for medication.

cheers

Warren

[Warren Beard]

quote Peter Mindham:

I thought Warren had the hat on? 😉

:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: :lol1: :lol1: :lol1: :lol1: :lol1:

I wish I was that cute :lol1:

[Harry Cleary]

got one sick here too Warren, kids cured my insomnia, i can now sleep in 2 seconds….if i get the chance 😀 😀 (hot)

[Alex Wilson]

Hi Warren

The arms on all awnings are designed to take the wind pressure exerted on the extended canopy. Any extra wind pressure which your panel will add to could cause the arms to fail and you will be held responsible for any liability problems. I would speak to Stuart at Caribbean Blinds and he might advise you of any legal problems you might have. They are also a good source for blinds & awnings if you ever need them.

Personally I would steer clear of that one.

Best wishes
Alex

[Warren Beard]

Thanks Alex, I think I am going to.

cheers

Warren

[Robert Lambie]

How about this….

Instead of a solid material. use Banner material…
using two lengths of vhb tape of similar along the aluminium part stick a length of banner material to it and every 18inches put a white headed rivett and washer to secure. the banner wont have any weight in it and it can hang as oppossed to sticking up?

also, the section that holds the canopy must be very secure to hold its weight. the top covering is normally in some sort of metal…galvanised steel?, as you can see in the picture. you could probably fasten a length of dibond onto that about 10 inches deep, rivetted along the bottom. "but" also a bit of bent alluminium flat bar screwed onto the wall where the lead flashing is stretching out to the sign and foxed with some rivetts again. the sign would hide the bad looking area above the canopy if nothing else.

(all this said, im doing this only from a picture… by that i mean… guess work) 😀

sorry for the rough diagram below… 😳 :lol1:

edit- just looking at that top bit its probably not solid enough to give any real support mate… as it appears to be bowing upwards, so maybe thin tin.

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[Warren Beard]

Hi Rob

Good tips thanks, I did try get them to go for banner material but they said no way, the top part is not very secure at all. it is only a thin bit of aluminium to hide the top section and it falls under the roof section of the building (the roof ledge part protrudes over the canopy) so I would not be able to fit it in there.

I think at the end of the day it will be unsafe to put anything besides banner material onto the canopy. I am not personally willing to take that chance it falls so I will try convince them to go with window graphics only if they don’t want banners.

I am seeing the customer tomorrow so will keep you updated.

Thanks for the comments Rob, much appreciated

Warren

[Martin Pearson]

Warren have a quick think about the sorts of questions the owner might have for you so you are prepared. You have had a lot of advice from people in this thread so make sure you point out to the customer that it is not advisable to put a solid board up on the canopy. You should be confident enough armed with the advice that has been given above and you should be able to offer him a pretty good window design which will probably attract more business for him anyway.

[Warren Beard]

quote martin:

Warren have a quick think about the sorts of questions the owner might have for you so you are prepared. You have had a lot of advice from people in this thread so make sure you point out to the customer that it is not advisable to put a solid board up on the canopy. You should be confident enough armed with the advice that has been given above and you should be able to offer him a pretty good window design which will probably attract more business for him anyway.

Hi Martin

I have done that and am busy designing something to show them to see what is achievable and I’m sure they will understand. All the help I have received here (and by PM) has been very helpful and definitely lead me in the best and right direction, for this I am grateful.

Tomorrow I will meet with them and hope for good news.

Thanks again

Warren

[Warren Beard]

Update;

I showed him a design for his window and explained the consequences of a sign on his canopy and finally managed to convince him it was a banner or nothing, he then agreed as he really wants something up there.

He really liked the design I did for the window (which he did not originally want) and now he wants both, so it has in fact turned in to more work for me 😀 😀 😀 😛 😉

The only other obstacle now is the council approval, hold thumbs.

Thanks for all the great advice and suggestions, it has paid off.

Cheers

Warren

[Robert Lambie]

tell him while he Waite’s on the council he could be losing business.
get the windows order from him and get paid… tell him to call you when the planning goes through for the canopy.
at this point "you" have done all the thinking and design work/labour and handed him it for nothing!… you could Waite months on the council and by then hand your design to someone else. strike while the irons hot mate… and for god sake don’t leave your artwork with him. 😉

whilst you are there, go into the shops along side him, introduce yourself as the guy about to do work on this shops windows and as you are doing one job you could offer a special rate for doing "their" shop window graphics, sign, pavement sign and so on… when a shop thinks the guy next doors getting a revamp it normally gets them wanting something too… keeping up with the jones’s s to speak. 😀

[Warren Beard]

Hi Rob

You are right and good point about the neighbors, When I spoke to the council they said we need approval on anything that goes on to the shop front, windows, doors, walls, anything, I was told that due to it being a grade 2 listed building any advertising that is visible needs approval, they even already told me and the customer that we cannot use red and it must be a dark colour like black or dark blue 😕

It is a risk but I had to give him artwork to show the council for approval, but I did watermark it and put a copyright on it (even if it is useless I think the customer will adhere to it, he is Turkish and is a bit bewildered by all this so he is very confident in me, I hope it does not back fire)

Thanks again Rob, much appreciated

Warren

[Warren Beard]

quote Robert Lambie:

How about this….

Instead of a solid material. use Banner material…
using two lengths of vhb tape of similar along the aluminium part stick a length of banner material to it and every 18inches put a white headed rivett and washer to secure. the banner wont have any weight in it and it can hang as oppossed to sticking up?

Hi Rob

Seeing as I have now managed the shop keeper to go for banner material could you tell me what VHB tape to get (I see there are a few different ones to chose from) and also could you tell me me where I could find white headed rivets as I could not find any anywhere 😕

Would I drill through the banner and tape into the alu frame to put my rivets?

Thanks Rob

Warren