I’ve hit brick wall!!

[Shane Drew]

Welcome Steve,

Mate, you’ve just described my business, but I have my own Roland SC540ex running Solvent inks. I’m a sign shop, but I print a lot of canvas (photography is my hobby, and I have 3 photographers as clients) One of the UKSB members here does my framing too.

It sounds like your printing guy is using a generic setting profile to print.

I had similar results until I got a tech out to calibrate my machine to the materials I use. Made a world of difference. If your contract printer has changed suppliers, to use, say, a cheaper canvas, his profile may also need tweaking.

The result I do on my own photos, and the photographers I work with are usually great. I’ve compared them to other canvas printers and mine are consistently better, but do I know the others guys are trying to use generic settings, basically because they are trying to avoid paying a tech to calibrate their systems (@ $160 p/h).

If you want really vibrant colours, I’ve printed mine using the RIP option of using a 2 pass print. It lays double the ink per pass. Stronger colours, slower drying, and more inks used, but it is an option worth considering.

From my experience, the cheaper the canvas, the less definition on the darker tones.

In terms of liquid laminate, I use Viponds here. Water based, you have to use an airless spray to get the best result. Perhaps that may solve your issues with streaking?

Hope that helps mate.

Welcome to the site again.

[Chris Wool]

welcome

quote :

I have had a few complaints lately from a couple of my photographers, with regards to the quality of the printing, and the colour production etc. The main problem are dark colours, for example, a close up picture of someone with dark hair, the printer just doesn’t seem to be up to the task,

canvas is difficult stuff to have profiled correctly.

your problems are probably the printer is only a 4 colour one the profile could be more suitable and the make of canvas could be better suited and the original file may not be up to enlargement or badly adjusted be for the printer gets it, it is a mine field.

some of the cannon and roland printers has more colours and is better suited than the sp540v that is when you are looking at tones like a photographer would but if the settings and file are poor then so will be the result

chris

[Martin Pearson]

Steve, welcome to the boards. As for the printer my advice would be if you don’t think you can afford it then don’t buy or lease one. Very easy to put yourself out of business if your outgoings are exceeding your income.
You really need to sit down and work out the costs. If someone else is printing for you at the moment then you will obviously save money by printing yourself, don’t know how busy you are but you may find that by printing yourself you are actually spending less money a month even with the cost of the printer, media and inks.

As for the laminating I would go back to using a liquid laminate on the prints if I were you, a clear varnish and a laminate are not the same thing and I am sure in time you will regret trying to save some money by using the varnish. Varnish will yellow with time and it won’t offer any form of UV protection for the prints. Look about for another supplier for a laminate. As for applying have you tried spraying instead or brushing? There is a sort of bath you can buy for applying liquid laminates but not sure what it is called or how it works.
Have you tried people like Lyson for laminate?

[Rod Young]

quote steve tomaselli:

The printer seems fine for general prints, however I have had a few complaints lately from a couple of my photographers, with regards to the quality of the printing, and the colour production etc. The main problem are dark colours, for example, a close up picture of someone with dark hair, the printer just doesn’t seem to be up to the task, and there is no definition in the hair….. i.e. just dark shadows. The only way I can describe it…… is that it looks like the image has been edited on photoshop….. using the sketch or paint facilities. The colours on the Rowland are really dull too. I’m not very technical, however I know that my printer uses one of the t-shirt or material printing settings.

You’ve provided good descriptions of the situation that strongly suggest a combination of overinking and underinking within the print jobs. For example, losing the detail in hair essentially means that too much ink is being absorbed into the media, thereby blurring the details. On the other hand, dull colours is a sign that not enough ink is being absorbed into the media to produce rich, saturated colours.

I agree with Shane that the choice of media profile is at root of this. Long story short, it is possible to have several media profiles for any given set of material, assuming that there is willingness to spend time and effort developing each profile. To save time, sometimes a "general" profile is used, or a "close" profile match. Unfortunately, your print service has probably substituted a similar media for the previous media, and the print mode is not producing the desired quality (i.e., professional photographers).

Perhaps the first step is to investigate what the printing company has done recently that has affected the quality of their printed output. Choice of media and correct selection of print mode should be at the top of your list.

Rod

[derek longhaven]

quote Shane Drew:

Welcome Steve,

If you want really vibrant colours, I’ve printed mine using the RIP option of using a 2 pass print. It lays double the ink per pass. Stronger colours, slower drying, and more inks used, but it is an option worth considering.

Welcome to the site again.

Can of worms this?
Sorry to hi-jack this but..

We have had terrible problems with print, we usually print;

production
3 passes
scan speed 1000

this gives us a fast, consistant print, however,

Recently our media, the same stuff (BP 1 year gloss vinyl) we have used for years seems to have changed / contaminated, it pools terribly and gives a ‘metallic’ effect, we cannot sell this and have returned over 8 rolls
Bp lightbrigade say theres no change of media it being manufacturer nor supplier to them, the vinyl is evidently different from touch to characteristics in its ‘curl up’, now we sometimes have jobs to print at 8 passes at 350 for a smooth detailed print, I tried this today and for small stuff and the print was as excellent as normal, 3 passes, 1000 scan, pools and useless, does
what shane says lower passes puts more ink down? we was under the impression higher the pass would use more ink, whatever the media we are using is still to fault, and we are on the lookout for a new supplier

Same profiles nothing has changed…but the media! ( we know it has, admit it bp , we are the end user, we notice change instantly!)

[Shane Drew]

Derek, I’m no expert like some others here, and I may stand corrected, but I can’t imagine a situation when I’d need to use 3 passes for a detailed print, on gloss vinyl.

I only use 2 pass on clear, perhaps 3 if its going to be subject to a light source (lightbox), but if you reduce the pass speed – I run my 2 pass at 700 – your results will be better than running at 1000.

I’d suggest reducing your speed would be the first step to try. Having said that, I get pooling on 3 pass a 700 too, thats a darn lot of ink going down. You’ll need to turn up your heaters too, because extra ink will be slowing the drying.

That’s just my take. As I say, I may be wrong.

[Jason Xuereb]

steve,

I’ve got the exact same printer. I found I had your problem when I used the signage colour profile. Are they using the ‘signage & display’ settings or the ‘pre press Us’ one?

I found the effect your describing more noticeable when using the ‘signage & display’ setting but it also gave me more vibrant colours.

Are you giving them the artwork at 100% or are they resizing it up?

Whats their interpolation set at?

I also found when I let Versaworks increase the size of my print I got what your describing. I’m now using a program called PhotoZoom2 to increase my image sizes from photos etc and don’t see this effect as much.

[Fred McLean]

Just bought PZOOM 2 and i reckon it’s well worth the £100 for it

[Shane Drew]

I’ve got photozoom 2 too. excellent program.

[Rod Young]

quote derek longhaven:

Same profiles nothing has changed…but the media!

Well, if the media (or inks) have changed, then the interactions between the two (i.e., the absorbency characteristics) will likely be different from what you previously had loaded in your printer. The method in which a print mode is created (and you can custom create this yourself) takes into account these media/ink interactions. Sometimes you can make do with slight modifications to an existing print mode. From what you’ve described, you have modified an existing print mode in order to slow down the printing, such that the media has more time to absorb the ink. However, it appears you have reached the limit in modifying a previous print mode, and you are now better off by creating 2-3 specific print modes for the work you’re doing. Otherwise, you’re going to play a perpetual game of chasing the "ideal" settings that you need.

Regards,

Rod

[derek longhaven]

quote Rod Young:

quote derek longhaven:

Same profiles nothing has changed…but the media!

Well, if the media (or inks) have changed, then the interactions between the two (i.e., the absorbency characteristics) will likely be different from what you previously had loaded in your printer. The method in which a print mode is created (and you can custom create this yourself) takes into account these media/ink interactions. Sometimes you can make do with slight modifications to an existing print mode. From what you’ve described, you have modified an existing print mode in order to slow down the printing, such that the media has more time to absorb the ink. However, it appears you have reached the limit in modifying a previous print mode, and you are now better off by creating 2-3 specific print modes for the work you’re doing. Otherwise, you’re going to play a perpetual game of chasing the “ideal” settings that you need.

Regards,

Rod

Just tried metamark vinyl and the results are fine, its a though the other vinyl has grease on it? it’s definately contaminated

[Chris Wool]

just reading this and being confused are Shane and John talking about the same pass rate i think shane is talking overprint passes.

if i am wrong ill get my coat

chris

[derek longhaven]

quote Chris Wool:

just reading this and being confused are Shane and John talking about the same pass rate i think shane is talking overprint passes.

if i am wrong ill get my coat

chris

Whos john?

[Chris Wool]

sorry Derrek close thou wasn’t it

chris

[Shane Drew]

quote Chris Wool:

just reading this and being confused are Shane and John talking about the same pass rate i think shane is talking overprint passes.

if i am wrong ill get my coat

chris

sorry guys, I was talking overprint passes 😳

[Chris Wool]

wondering if we are going to have a reply from this steve bloke who asked the question. some interesting comment here.

shane i knew what you ment cos i read what you said.

do you use the colour curve in colour rip to bring out some shadows or do it on the file

chris

[Shane Drew]

quote Chris Wool:

shane i knew what you ment cos i read what you said.

do you use the colour curve in colour rip to bring out some shadows or do it on the file

chris

I do it on the file Chris

[Daniel Gillen]

Which stock are you using Shane?
I have tried the Fredrix USA, but thinking about giving SIHL picasso a go…

[Shane Drew]

quote Daniel Gillen:

Which stock are you using Shane?
I have tried the Fredrix USA, but thinking about giving SIHL picasso a go…

Fredrix mate, but I’m thinking of giving SIHL a go too.

Had a talk to Brooke from HVG today, they have some new (to me) fancy stuff too. Apparently all the rage with photo printing co’s on the Gold Coast. One has a suede effect, does not look too bad. The other has a canvas effect. Takes more ink, and has a slightly higher white balance.

Do you deal with Brooke? Not a bad bloke. He’s into photography too, so he has a vested interest in the results 😎