HP 8000 Eco-Solvent

[DaneRead]

im getting on on the 18th of feb. They will be delivering it.

HP as you know bought out seiko so they have the 9000 model which is basically a seiko colour painter. They have since brought out the 8000 which in essence is the same machine just slower. Go and take a look at one very high quality not as fast as the 9000 and smaller ink tanks. HP has though improved ink usage compared to other machine so the inks do last longer. Ink are a bit more expensive then you roland mimaki but not a lot.

Also be advised this in NOT an ECO solvent machine. It is a low solvent. Not as aggressive as full solvent but it still is solvent. Eco solvent sits on top of the media solvent bits into the media. In my opinion ECO solvent is a waste of time you have to laminate most of your prints.The HP uses the same type of solvent inks that the mimakis and mutohs use.

Hope this helps.

[Jon Marshall]

Ah, so there are really three types of solvent ink machines?

[DaneRead]

yes you get eco solvent which is a eco friendly ink as it were. Solvent are made from natural product?? (i could stand to be corrected). These inks sit on the top of the media and fade easier and also rub and scratch off easier. Often need lamination.

You get mild solvent which is a chemical solvent but it is not as agresive as full solvent. It only eats into the media a little. Most smaller machines are mild solvent HP, Mimaki, Some mutohs , OCE.
These machines are better for small to medium sign shops that have limited space and ventilation. They still produce harmful fumes so they still need extraction etc. These inks do not need lamination in many processes.

Full Solvent comes on your large industrial machines. Vutek, NUR Jeti etc.
These inks are very agressive and eat into the media a lot. The inks are a lot more harmful and so they need very good ventalation etc.

Last you get UV inks. These come on many flat bed machines and can print onto rigid substrates as well as vinyl, PVC etc. They inks are extremely hard and very hard wearing. They do not scratch or fade easily. The inks are cheap and the colours are vibrant. You may say why doesnt every one move to UV?? One very serious glitch. UV inks are not flexible. They may give you 20% stretch if lucky then they start to crack. That is why they dont work on vehicle branding in curves. Only really designed for flat surfaces.

There are a lot more types but these are the main ones used for outdoor advertising.

Hope this helps.

[Stuart Flynn]

For my first post on here, I thought it would only be right that as an ink chemist, I add my view on the varying ink types.

The view of what is a solvent or true solvent compared to Eco and such isn’t quite clear.
Eco inks are advertised as odour free and user friendly, without the need for ventilation or extraction. This isn’t necessarily true, as the solvents may not have a smell but do still affect the body in the same way a normal solvent would. In fact in some cases, Eco inks are no better than true solvent from a health perspective and the only positive factor is that they don’t smell.

This lures people into a false sense of security because then you are unaware of the build up of solvents in your user area. I would recommend that users read the data sheets and see exactly what they mean. If you do not understand them or they are not quite clear then speak to your ink supplier because after all, this is your health you must be concerned with.

True solvents can be more aggressive but most of the time it is because they smell that people will associate them with being full solvent ink.
We have created inks before which do have an odour that people will classify as bad and ‘stink’ but these inks are much more user friendly than the ones that don’t. This is based on toxicology and your daily threshold of exposure.
If you want an example of non-odour experiences that can be detrimental to health, just look at Gas fires and when they leak Carbon Monoxide.

The present ‘Eco inks’ in the market are not as effective as ‘true solvent’ but that is more to the formulation than the fact they do not bite into the media.

Eco: Non-odour solvent ink but not as resistant to alcohol or scratch (OEM).

Mild: Slight odour solvent ink with better printing properties.

True solvent: Aggressive, stronger odour with full printable performance. Less chance of lamination requirement.

UV: Great resistance properties, sometimes dull prints, not as flexible. Plus a hole missing in the ozone layer above you. 😀

[DaneRead]

thanks for the insite mate

very helpful.

[DaneRead]

hi Kemist

What would you say is the difference between eco solvent and mild solvent in terms of lamination.

From what i know almost all the time you have to laminate eco sol inks but you can get away with it on mild solvent. Do mild sol inks last longer than eco sol?

in terms of eating into the media, from what ive read mild solvents eat into the media more than eco solvent. is this true.

[Stuart Flynn]

Hi daneread

Mild solvents can bite into the media more but the Eco inks are actually deceptively aggressive.
I would say the differences between the Eco and Mild are subtle but if you want less lamination, then the mild is preferable.

The Eco ink was designed more on the basis of the marketing with no odour and extended running on machines. This ultimately came at a sacrifice to some resistance properties as in alcohol or scratch (the OEM ink). The downfall is that there is a design flaw in the ink that makes the finished product susceptible.

The mild inks sometimes require a little more maintenance as to be expected but the slight odour puts users off. The chances of requiring lamination with mild inks is lower than with the Eco’s.

[DaneRead]

thanks for that.

wonder if you can give me some advise.

I am getting the HP 8000 and was wanting to look at the possibilities of converting to bulk ink when the warrantee goes void.
What are your views?

I have seen that a lot of people have found bulk ink to be quite a hassle. It sounds great but then when using it you often get more chances of heads crashing, colors not as good, clogging up etc. Are these statements true. You see it could be more costly in the long run if you run bulk ink.

Also isn’t it more advantageous to use bulk ink if you are printing often because ink is always moving through the machine.

You see the HP inks are expensive but i have been told and have seen for myself they are very good inks and really give off a great print. Is it worth just sticking to the original inks??

Also which bulk ink system is good, who makes the best inks??

[Shane Drew]

Checkout Techink solvent inks. http://www.techink.com/products/inks.asp They are owned by HP now, pretty sure they’ll do something for you machine, although they are releasing HP branded bulk inks soon, according to the local sign press here.

By the time the machine is out of warranty, they will probably have something on the market.

I use techink on my roland 540ex, never had an issue.

Hope that helps 🙂

Shane