how would you attach this sign to the rails?

[John Childs]

I wouldn’t tape it. That will damage it when it hits the ground. 😀

I can appreciate the desire to have invisible mounting, but I wouldn’t put something like that up without some form of positive fixing.

[Peter Mindham]

definitely rivets or the like

Peter

[Robert Lambie]

FiX "L" Shape angle to the wall, top and bottom.
slide the sign onto the brackets and rivett or screw in from the top and then the bottom of the sign on the pan returns. not face. so fixings are also hidden.

[John Childs]

Unless I’ve got it wrong, that won’t work Rob.

The tray is fixed to a flat sheet, and it’s that that needs fixing to the building.

[Kevin Flowers]

Hi
why not use Penloc 1:1 VT, should hold it with no problems just ensure you clean as they state

http://www.eurobond-adhesives.co.uk/productlist.php#sa

Kev

[Gareth.Lewis]

Can you remove the green sign tray bit? If so, can’t you rivet the flat panel to the rails where they will be hidden by the tray (when the tray is replaced) and vhb tape the other part of the flat panel?

Just a thought.

[Scott.Evans]

iam sorry the sign is to be fixed 2 the poles.

the sign tray is attached to a flat panel of dibound

[Scott.Evans]

can see what you re saying gareth do you think it would hold like that?

[John Childs]

Right.

Too late now Scott, but the best way would have been to solid countersunk rivet the rail to the back of the panel before powder coating it. Or buy it in ready done from somebody like Ashby.

Then use clamp brackets, from the same source, to fix the rails to the posts.

[Robert Lambie]

quote John Childs:

Unless I’ve got it wrong, that won’t work Rob.

The tray is fixed to a flat sheet, and it’s that that needs fixing to the building.

your right john, completely missed the main panel had no returns.

[Scott.Evans]

this should make it a little clear what iam trying to do

sign try with built up letters on which will be riveted to the angle on the flat panel > http://www.uksignboards.com/download.php?id=21186

the flat panel which will be attached to the rails > http://www.uksignboards.com/download.php?id=21185

poles that will hold sign. another rail 2 be added. > http://www.uksignboards.com/download.php?id=21184

[Scott.Evans]

john how do you solid coutersink rivets?
dose this mean you wont be able to see the rivet from the front?

also i haven’t powder coated anything.

thanks for your help

[John Childs]

I don’t do the rivetting myself Scott. I know how to do it, but it’s easier, quicker, and cheaper to buy the panels in from the likes of Ashby or ASD.

Basically they start with a sheet of 3mm aluminium, rather than dibond, drill the holes then countersink them. Then they attach the rails to the back of the panel with countersunk rivets, which leaves a flat face. Only then is the colour applied, in the form of powder coat.

The plate is then fixed to the posts by brackets which slide into the rails and clamp onto the posts.

Basically, it’s road sign construction. To see what I’m trying, somewhat badly, to describe, go take a look at almost any road sign.

[Robert Lambie]

as long as its fitted properly 3m "white vhb tape" on its own would hold this sign via sign channel. "3 lengths" with clip fixings to poles.
a single rivette at each end of the channel could be applied if worried. then pain the head or buy white plastic head rivetts from ashby.

[Scott.Evans]

i riveted it in the end, looks ok

> http://www.uksignboards.com/download.php?id=21187

there are 8 rivets under tray and 2 on the end that are showing, seems ok 😀

[Martin Pearson]

Like John says it would have been better to attach the channel before anything else, mind you if you have used Di-Bond I wouldn’t put countersunk rivets in it anyway as they are likely to put straight through.
Have to put me thinking cap on, what size is it because VHB on it’s own may be enough but it also depends where it is going as Road Signs have to be riveted as well now I believe.

[Scott.Evans]

martin its only a demo sign for myself to show customers.

size
58" 33"

2 rails 4 clips

no vhb tape applied

think it will be ok? 😕

[Scott.Evans]

some better pics here, what you think?
http://www.uksignboards.com/download.php?id=21189
http://www.uksignboards.com/download.php?id=21188

[David Rowland]

time to plugs robs demo
http://www.uksignboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=17579
more about postfix i must admit lol

[Scott.Evans]

dave iam not putting it in the ground
iam going to put a concrete base on it, like the one rob done.

next time i will get the rails put on at blackburnmetals 🙄

learn something new everyday

[Darryl Seager]

For my 2 ‘pen’th worth..
i think the rails are too close together and it would look far better if you rounded the corners.

As for rivetting the channel, i believe that people like Ashby etc use a ‘Bolloff’ machine which actually ‘punches’ the rivets through the metal.. far to labour intensive to drill and then countersink..

I know that the sign is not for Highway use, put i believe the spec’ for roadsigns says that the rivets are not to be seen on the face of the sign. i.e a smooth face..

[Stuart Taylor]

HI Scott

Hopefully I can offer a little advice for future signs that you do when using channel and posts.

As a rule most Traffic Sign makers would use the Bolloff fixing system for this type of sign – This punches the metal face and sign channel with the rivet finishing flush on the sign face. Then the plate would be painted or vinyl applied over the flush rivet (Its also normal to have the channel painted).

Couple of other things I`ve noticed from your pictures

The posts should be nearer the top of the sign for added strength and your channels are really too close together – Again normal ministry guidelines would recommend a max of 600mm centres and normally start closer to the top and bottom of the plate (approx 25mm in from the edge). For a 33" deep sign 3 channels would be belt and braces but if using 2 then have your top channel 4 1/2" down then 24" space then 4 1/2" from bottom – This will give much better support. Finally when using rivets recommendation would be first rivet 25mm in from edge and then every 150mm along the channel.

Hope this helps

[Robert Lambie]

hi stuart

i googled "Bolloff rivette fixings" in the past, but never found what i was after. do you have the machine suppliers/manufacturers name or website?
also, is the machine a handheld gun of some sort, or is it a free standing fixed rivvette machine where the sign is fed into its throat. (so to speak?)
i wouldnt think the fixed machine as practical for large signs, hense why im asking if it comes as a gun etc. 😀

[Darryl Seager]

quote Robert Lambie:

hi stuart

i googled “Bolloff rivette fixings” in the past, but never found what i was after. do you have the machine suppliers/manufacturers name or website?
also, is the machine a handheld gun of some sort, or is it a free standing fixed rivvette machine where the sign is fed into its throat. (so to speak?)
i wouldnt think the fixed machine as practical for large signs, hense why im asking if it comes as a gun etc. 😀

Try here Rob : http://www.bollhoff.com Tel: 01902 637161

that have a place in Willenhall in the West Midlands.. the web site seems to be taking ages to load for some reason??

[Stuart Taylor]

Hi Rob

To answer your question yes you can buy hand held models – however these actually limit you to smaller signs due to the throat depth available on these models. We operate large pedestal mounted versions with a throat depth of 610mm on one machine and 750mm on another (you can get up to 2400mm throat depth !!!) which allows us to fix channels into the middle of 4ft and 5ft sheets. The hand held only have a small throat depth which will only allow perimeter channel fixing (therefore restricting plate size to 24" depth)

Try "henrob" as an alternative supply – same technology to bollhoff (used to be linked years ago) but much clearer website –

http://www.henrob.co.uk/languages/engli … design.htm

The image of the "pedestal c frame" shows the type used in the traffic sign industry

We actually buy all our materials through henrob now

The term "bollhoff" is a little like "hoover" when talking about this production method

[Robert Lambie]

thanks Darryl/stuart for the replies and links, ill check them now…

Stuart, what would you say is the biggest benefit in having one of these machines? we do allot of signage that requires rivette so i am trying to speed up production but also improve the quality of the sign. 8×4 sheets and 10×5 sheets are common week in week out… I’m just trying to imagine how they will be loaded into this machine by one man? or am i way off on the process?

any rough ideas on costs?

i plan calling them but just trying to grasp whats involved etc before i do..

[Stuart Taylor]

Hi Rob

2 major benefits

Quality of finish/appearance – flush face finish then apply vinyl or paint

Huge time savings – We believe we can fix channels 4 to 5 time faster than traditional drilling/riveting methods – More consistency also. For larger plates you will still require an additional pair of hands to help with weight and handling (but you would have had that problem with handling using traditional methods)

Price – We are just looking at a new model with a head modified for GRP as a pedestal C frame for around 11K from Henrob, if you want one to cover for 10ft x 5ft you should go for a 750mm throat which will be slightly more. 10 -12K would cover for most standard options.

If you want to see one in action you`re more than welcome to come and see it in operation in our production process

Give me a call if you want