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How much would you charge?
How much would you charge for this van?
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64 Replies
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Around £450.00 + VAT including the digi print on the back, more if I had to spend alot of time doing artwork.
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Circa £395.00 + VAT.
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Tidy job by the way!
I wish guys! I really need to look at my prices! There are so many signmakers in Cardiff now that we’d be lucky to get £250 for a van like that as its becoming so,so competitive.
Dont you just love the customers who say…Signblahblah said they’d do it for a one’r or some ridiculous price. There was a time we’d say okay and try and come to an arrangement, but now its £250 for example and thats that, take it or leave it.
Do you guys have a set price-range for:
For example, (?)
Small Van (Ford Escort)
Medium Van (Ford Transit)
Large Van (Ford Iveco LWB) -
Well evox
I’d get together with the other sign makers and stop cutting each others throats! (:) In the end no one will be making a living and we’ll all end up being graphic designers! 😮£400 -£450 is still a good price
Johnny S -
Wise words from Jonny S.
I’m in the same boat as you evox. I think that we’d get about £300 for that one. the guys down the road would probably do it for £250 tops.
I’d love to charge more but it’s so competitive on vans around here, the trouble is the majority of the customers go on price. Cheap as Chips and they’re happy. -
Personally, I would have made everything on that van 10%-15% smaller. And it would have been about £450ish
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Another tip would be, when cutting the hood (or bonnet) sticker,
to use your distortion tool to make it looks like it is “smiling”.
That way, when you apply it, it looks straighter.
The van looks pretty big….I would get $850-$900 here,
but our $$ is only worth half of yours, right?
Love…Jill 😉 -
BUT everything where you are also costs less than half here
$100 + for a pair of levis for example the list is long.
Goop
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Thanks for your comments…
What it is, I have only been in the business less than a year really and this is one of the bigger companies in my area. I posted a sign I did for them a while ago and now they want 3 vans doing. The one in the photo was done by somebody else and they want me to match it. I was thinking around £350 as I am not VAT registered.
This could lead to a lot of work for me so I don’t want to lose the job.
I’ll quote £350 and see what happens.
Thanks again
Dave
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same here £275 300 would be tops. have you ever done a yellow pages sheck on how many sign shops are in your area. I have 57 in a twenty mile radius and not all are in there, not much room for haggling cos someone will always do it cheaper.
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Dave thats one of the probs on quoting to re-do other folks designs (and I have to say its a pretty poor design) I’d be the same as Paul and Billy around £300, but for the most part you’ll find that folks under cut by using cheaper vinyl, you’re probably coinsidering a 5-7 yr vinyl whereas a cheaper quote could be done by a competitor using 2-3 year vinyl BUT they don’t tell the customer this he just THINKS he’s getting a better deal.
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Hi All
I agree with Steve. We have had repeat vans to do – first van done by previous owner’s – and the cost was very low. Why. Money went straight in to back pocket. No VAT, No Bills etc. Customer then wants the same deal. We don’t work like that.
Where the price is higher than before we just explain to our customer that, yes, there has been a slight price increase and that we are now useing a better type of vinyl. Our price for that van would be about £350.
We don’t alway’s get the business but we ARE getting new business from our customers who recommend us.
Regards
Lee -
I kinda agree with what your saying regarding the better quality vinyl but if you think that 5-7year vinyl is say approx 20p a metre dearer than 3year vinyl and it takes, for example, ten metres, then thats only £2 dearer than the guys down the road who may be using the cheaper vinyl but how you supposed convince a customer that your vinyl is better than theres down the road and therefore the job is going to be worth the £150-£200 more than his previous quote!? All he(customer) is interested in is the price? To a certain extent if you were talking just a few quid extra for a longer lasting job then maybe, but to double the price….im not sure!
Listen to this one, we get ‘travellers’ popping in from time to time, for the usual blockpaving and upvc fascia jobs which is great as they are usually all repeat customers, you give them a quote for approx what they want and they say what: ‘i can get the same job done in such and such signs for £140 and they will do any van, whatever, however you want – full colour graphics, the before and after pics, anything you want’.
Yeah,yeah i think to myself, any old rubbish in order to lower your price, so we eventually come to a price were both happy with. So anyway to cut a long story short, we actually rang up this sign place for a quote on a similar job, i know its a bit naughty, but i thought its gotta be done, at least we will know where we are regarding the competition.
Unbelievable, not only was this traveller telling the truth, for £140, they will even come to you wherever you are for no extra charge, ‘all part of the service’ he said.
So you see how hard its is to quote near to the £400 mark when you have loonies like that??
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i know exactly how you feel evox!!
had a guy in wanting bowsers (spraying machines) 4 off three colour on back which size is more than four feet! two sides can’t remember the size, they were huge!! three colour again!!
we gave the guy a price!!
he said he had to get two quotes! fair enough, but he said the other sign maker price was £145 all in and an extra £55 to fit all four!! and the company had to travel 20 miles 😮
anyway my price was four times as much, did i get the job no!!
i told the guy i would not not do the job for less than i quoted!!
am i annoyed no!! i will not go with the same priceing as struggling signmakers!! i have like most of you too much work to deal with anyway!! and i have been told the other signmaker only dropped his price, so he could quote for all other work in the company (stationary,etc etc) then after a while bump all prices up!! 🙄 🙄
sad!!!
Nik
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I had a similar scenario in the shop the other day. A chap I’ve done work for before came in for some cut vinyl stickers. They’re about the size of an A5 sheet, plain black vinyl, supplied with app tape. The chap said that the last bloke that did it did him 500 for £55!! 😮 😮
Now I know I look a little dim, but having had a calculator surgically installed in my cranium, I set about totting up figures. It seemed extremely cheap, and there was no way I was doing the job, so at this point it was out of interest.
Allowing for weed borders etc. I figured I’d get around 16 to a metre, and at £55 for 500, they’d work out at 11 pence each. So, 11p x 16 means I’d have the princely sum of £1.71 a metre 😆 😆 😆 I couldn’t buy the damn vinyl for that, let alone account for the time it would take to run 32 metres of vinyl through my plotter, weed, tape and cut them into a useable size!
Anyway, if this chap was being straight and he did buy 500 for £55, I want to meet the guy who did it. I then want his vinyl supplier’s number, his app tape supplier’s number and the plotter he has that cuts a metre in around 10 seconds! 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆
Cheers, Dewi
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Its really a case of sticking to what you think is a reasonable price for you to keep working I guess.
I think the moment we try and cut the competition is the moment we start to spiral downwards in terms on profitability and also in terms of a much more important area: Quality
If we have enough work on our hands then why should we create problems for ourselves by taking on these cheapies.
It seems simple to me. If ‘Harry @ Sign ‘n’ run’ can do them cheaper how comes you’re asking me.
Lets keep our reputation for quality signs: It’ll pay dividends in the end
John 😀
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I’m going to stick a cat amongst the pigeons here! (:)
Last night I cut and weeded about 9 metres of vinyl, it took me an hour and a bit to weed and lay up. Cost, lets say £25.
At 10 this morning I toodled down to local car dealer less than a quarter of a mile away and applied said graphics to courtesy cars. I was home at 1o/c with a cuppa in my hand and £170 better off. Less the £25, = £145 for a total of 4 hours work. Now I’d like to get more money for this job and arguably it is worth more but on this job and with the way it fits in around other stuff I do I’m happy 😆
I guess the point I’m trying to make is, don’t knock people and look down at them when you lose a job on price. I have chosen to work from home with minimal overheads and have set my business and prices up to earn what I want to earn. If you have invested in premises and machinery, office furniture and staff then cannot sustain that business because you are being undercut then isn’t it your fault and not those of us who have set up their business in a different way?
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BUT
quote :£65 cos it’s my mate’s company and I’d help him out. And I said I’d fit them too.He is getting it for £30 A VAN!!!!!!!!That works out as £30 – £10 per van Vinyl. approx £3 for app tape. so £17 TO CUT,WEED AND TAPE UP A VAN’S WORTH OF VINYL – no thank you.
£17 X 26 vans = £442 for 26 vans of vinyl, weeded and taped up!!!!!
Then he says he’ll do their printed letter heads for £15 per 1000!!!!!
There comes a point where it is so obviously silly that you have to question the enquirers motives in the first place? I ask up front what they have been quoted elsewhere, what there expected budget is, whether it is price alone they are looking for and if I was cheaper would that be the only reason I’d get the job??
If the answers are ok I sort a design out and pitch in with a price that I’M happy with. If the answers don’t add up I don’t bother. 😎
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People that come in at silly prices, wont be in Business for too long…
I know of atleast 2 sign companys in my area that have come & gone within the last 18 months.
Peaple talk about turn over, not me, its pure profit im intrested in.
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Fair point Martin;
I have come up with a pricing matrix now, only an excel document which acounts to materials costs,time,etc and then our expected MARK-UP. And we are sticking to it.
Myself and my partner have agreed after putting a few trials through it that it generates a fair price that both of us are happy with.
Thats the price, its a fair price and if your not happy with it Mr.Customer please feel free to shop around.
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Interesting stuff this.
I have just recently started up after leaving the only full time sign company in my area, I am a one man band and my overheads are low. The other company has a reputation for being expensive and they could be because they were the only full time sign maker in the area, and still I was working 50+ hours a week to try and keep up with the orders. The company never advertised locally, they just had a good reputation.
Now that company has found out I have started and has undercut me on two jobs that they knew I was quoting on, one I lost (not too bothered, canopy recover)but the other I got because the customer felt more confident in me and the information I had given him (plus my quote was on time).
I have not advertised as yet, and I haven’t even had time to install my facia sign on my new workshop, why? well the work just keeps coming, done one job, quality work resonable price, then the word spreads.
I will not be competing with the other sign company on price, my marketing ploy is based on quality and service, if they want to undercut me thats up to them, that just means I will have all the market by the end of the year, because they will be out of business
Obviously it is not as competetive in my area as alot of you guys, but I hate to hear of people doing jobs for no profit, like others have said stick to your guns and sell on quality and service.
Cheers
Dave
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(?)
I was just wondering if you have a Sign Writer’s pricing guide over there.
Or some sort of standardized book of rates.
I had one years ago. Of course I misplaced it.
Then a supplier gave me a similar book, but I can’t find that either!
(early-onset senile dementia)
At any rate, it is a small book that you can keep in your desk or briefcase,
listing the going rate for signs, with a 3-tiered pricing system
(no frills, mediocre, & tarted up versions of the same sign)
It is available in SignCraft magazine. I need to get another one.
I’ve found that when quoting a job, if you can whip out your little book and rattle off a price, that the client tends not to quibble, because it looks “official”. It also helps to standardize the going rates in your community.
The spreadsheet version or even a Word Document of your own prices works well too. You pull up a screen and say “That will cost you $475.” It makes it seem like you are not just pulling numbers out of your butt. I did this just the other day, to as long-time customer. He questioned me, saying “you never did that before” and I explained to him that I am on a new business plan. He swallowed it and didn’t haggle.
Unfortunately there will always be low-ballers who underbid you. But after the client has been burned by poor service & a shoddy-looking sign, they WILL come crawling back to you.
Love…Jill -
I agree with Martin’s points on this one. Thinking about it, we’re all going to come up with a price we’re happy with that covers our overheads and gives a reasonable profit. Its our choices that dictate those overheads, so if they can’t be sustained, its a simple choice, either promote the business in a more effective way or lower prices.
I set out in this business to earn what I percieved to be a reasonable living wage, not a fortune, just a reasonable living wage. When I’m quoting for a job, I will occassionally look at what others are charging and match the price, but more often than not I sit down with a pad and work out what my expenses will be, and what type of profit I want to see at the end of it. Not entirely scientific, but its worked for me so far.
Customers now seem to expect it all, I’m a customer for other businesses, and I expect it all! 🙄 Service, quality, price and nine times out of ten, yesterday! 😆 I learnt the hard way to allow enough time for jobs and because of early mistakes, I had to sacrifice my profits to match the service and quality the customer wanted. Now I charge a little more and the customer has to wait a little longer, but they get the quality and service they want.
Providing certain levels of quality and service can be extremely time consuming. I priced up for a menu board about 2 weeks ago and quoted the customer. They were happy with the price, but with my shop not being around too long, they wanted to see a sample of my work. I’d been working on a menu board sample for the shop anyway, so I whizzed it together and showed it to the customer. They were impressed, but wanted to see it on acrylic. 👿 So, quality and service in mind, I agreed to make up a small sample on acrylic. A UKsignboards member kindly helped me out with an offcut, so I set about making up a small A4 sized sample. When the customer next came in, they were happy with the sample, but kept insisting that there may be a glare through the acrylic. Quality and service again, I assured them that others made menu boards in exactly the same way and the glare would’nt be an issue. Then came the cruncher, they wanted me to make a sample 33 inches high, by 28 inches wide, so they could put onto their existing light box and check for glare 😮 😮 The job I quoted for originally was 33 inches high by 56 inches wide and they wanted a sample half that size, for free! Needless to say, I wasn’t best pleased, so I politely said I couldn’t do it.
The point I’m making is, I’ve wasted time over 2 weeks attempting to get a job, I’ve mithered ppl silly for advice about the job, all in the name of quality and service. My initial price on the job was a good price, it gave me a reasonable profit, but it didn’t account for my customer’s requests. Maybe I handled the customer incorrectly and caused my own problem, but if my price had been a little lower in the first instance, would the customer have insisted on seeing samples etc to justify spending the money?
Blimey, that was a long one, sorry 😮 🙄
Cheers, Dewi
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My overriding thought on this one is that I didn’t think I was too cheap until people told me or I picked up what was being achieved by others on these boards! 😕 Sure, I had some jobs that I got completely wrong price wise, but put it down to the learning curve I knew I had to go through….
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Quote from martinC
I guess the point I’m trying to make is, don’t knock people and look down at them when you lose a job on price. I have chosen to work from home with minimal overheads and have set my business and prices up to earn what I want to earn. If you have invested in premises and machinery, office furniture and staff then cannot sustain that business because you are being undercut then isn’t it your fault and not those of us who have set up their business in a different way?
Now dont take what Im about to say here personaly martin because this not aimed at you the answer is aimed at the trade as a whole.
I have been in the trade for over 25 years and worked from home for a long time but refused to cut my prices just because I had lower overheads. Its a value thing!!!. what are we worth!!! Ok my signs may be of identical quality design/application wise to everyone else but we should all stand back look at what we are worth professionaly and price our work accordingly. By undercutting by large amounts (sometimes more than half) or pricing really low purely because we have lower overheads ultimatly only has the effect of de-valuing the trade, that is what is happening at the moment the trade is being massivly devalued. I’m all for being competetive and will openly admit to undercutting other signshops but there is a limit in my book that I will not go beyond, as a professional I’m worth more than that.
Shoot me later
paul -
here! here!! paul 😀 you hit that one right on the button!! 😆 😆
Nik
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Now dont take what Im about to say here personaly martin
Don’t worry, I won’t and if I do I’ll tell me Mum! 🙁
quote :I have been in the trade for over 25 years and worked from home for a long time but refused to cut my prices just because I had lower overheads. Its a value thing!!!. what are we worth!!!If your happy with that, that’s fine. But who’s setting this imaginary price structure from which to cut prices???? (hot) My prices are MY prices, the quality of my work is MY work and the service I offer is MY service. Am I devaluing my professional status by selling a sign for £400 (£250) profit that has been quoted at £675 by a local franchise with hefty commissions to pay? Should I really care about what they are doing?
I can understand the feeling of worth an experienced traditional signwriter has and their subsequent annoyance as their business is eroded by newcomers producing a similar product in vinyl at a lower price. I don’t believe that gives them the right to live in a professional vacuum! By the same token if one vinyl signmaker produces a similar product at a better price what gives the higher priced signmaker the ruling say on what is true professional worth??? 😕
My teenage Daughter insists on the latest designer brands, pays £30 for a Todd Barker T-shirt (name changed to keep solicitors happy 🙄 ). For £4 I can produce a shirt of the same if not better quality and could sell it at market prices for say, £10 and make a healthy profit. Todd Barker invests heavily in display stands and advertising to build a reputation and business based on the marketing ideas of some high flying retail guru. A quality product of true worth produced by a professional company?? the bench mark of true value? NO, a cleverly conspired plot to stop people looking at what true value for money is!
Undercutting is a word used too frequently to mask the real reasons for losing business…..overcharging!
The trade is being devalued because the skill sets needed to produce good looking signs are being reduced. That’s a natural occurence and there’s nothing anyone can do about it.
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Well Martin all i can say mate is if you are stupid enough to work on a saturday night and for 4 hours on a sunday then good luck to you. 😆 😆 I don’t bother to compete on price because there’s always some twit willing to work for nowt, you know the old saying “pay peanuts?, get monkeys!”
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ooo, ooo, eee, ahhhhh,………where’s me nuts! 😆
Steve , it was Friday and Saturday, I go for a swing on Sundays! 😆
I don’t clock watch. Snooker was on TV, I had a beer in my hand and had taken the afternoon off so needed to catch up. May as well weed those vinyls now methinks. On Saturday mornings my wife works or shops, my kids have tuition and it all fits in just fine and dandy.
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Well you posted this today and you said :-
quote :Last night I cut and weeded about 9 metres of vinyl, it took me an hour and a bit to weed and lay up. Cost, lets say £25.At 10 this morning I toodled down to local car dealer
I dunno typical southerner, ain’t got a clue what day it is. 🙄 😆 😆 😆
Oh I must add that in my experience car dealers are the meanest, tightest bunch of scumbags walking the earth and you are lucky you got paid to do a job for them as they usually try to get you to pay them, I had one bloke at the local Landrover dealership whinging coz I charged him 80 quid to do a special on a car whilst he was leaning on a 40 grand Range Rover, I hate car dealers. (:)
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The trouble I have with prices, are all caused by undercutting.
A couple of large jobs that I have quoted for and lost were done at such a low price it was unreal,
I had seen their quotes, and going by were I get my supplies, they could have only earned £200 profit for five or six days work including fitting.
There’s not just a small amount of money between quotes, but hundreds of poundsI could easily under cut every sign shop in my area and beyond.
But for what.. Pin money; less then the minimum wage. A lot of hard work for very little return.Its funny how a lot of customers are willing to pay a £1000 on an advert, but will quibble over £300.00 for there tranny which would be seen day in day out in their local area.
A lot of new comers to the trade are doing it part time, they are willing to work all weekend producing a sign to earn £40-50 beer money, when the sign is really worth ten times that amount.
I’ve noticed many people make and fit there own signs, but don’t seam to add the true cost of fitting… Two men half a day around £300.A lot of signs prouduced these days are just foamex panels screwed to a wall… cheap and nasty.
Simon
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I can understand the feeling of worth an experienced traditional signwriter has and their subsequent annoyance as their business is eroded by newcomers producing a similar product in vinyl at a lower price. I don’t believe that gives them the right to live in a professional vacuum! By the same token if one vinyl signmaker produces a similar product at a better price what gives the higher priced signmaker the ruling say on what is true professional worth???
All fair comments martin but I don’t live in a professional vacuum and yes I am a traditionaly trained signmaker but have also embraced new technology, I have no annoyance at newcomers producing a similar product in vinyl, and why? because for the last 10 years I have taught signmaking to around 160 students, both traditionaly and vinyl application, so in a sense I have produced my own competition, why? because I deeply believe in passing on knowledge as it was passed on to me. The industry dictates what is true professional worth not the price of a sign
Simon c says
Theres not just a small amount of money between quotes, but hundreds of pounds.like I said before Im all for competition. All supermarkets charge similar prices, garages charge similar hourly rates, in no other industry would you find such wide discrepencies in the prices charged for the same product.
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not sure i agree craig. we are all in it to make money, as much as we can, if we are honest.
if you could get £100 or £50 for something “need it or not” you/anyone WILL try for £100.
business is business and its about making money at the end of the day.i think what most mean by pricing low is devaluing what we all do.
if you are close to dewi you should be charging roughly the same. if you have less overheads then you make more money! makes sense…
that way the customer can base his opinion on who gives the better work. -
if i could just add something to the debate, on where all this cost cutting/low prices might end.
I`m very good friends with a couple of people who`s business is selling bolt on goodies for the classic mini.
They go to various shows up and down the country, selling their stuff.
The traders have let-
either the need to make a sale, so have cut their profit margins,
or
let the customer to drive down the prices.They are having to sell this like bumpers etc, with a £1 profit margin. A full set of tyres costing £115. Have £12 profit in them…
(would you buy perspex costing £115 to get £12 profit out of it !!!)
My friends say, many items only have a profit of 50p on them. 😮
The business is so bad, many are falling by the wayside, as they are making not enough money to cover going to these events.
Last month. A Magazine dedicated to the mini, staged a show at Sandon Park. The prices for the trade stands where approx £500 for the weekend. 95% of the traders couldn`t go, as they wouldn`t make enough for profit to cover all the exspencives.
All these price cuts have happened over the years, new boys have come in and dropped the prices to get the business.
No matter what business we`re in, we must try to keep prices real. Or in ten years signs/graphics could all go the same way.
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they could have only earned £200 profit for five or six days work including fitting.
But we all know that you cannot sustain this level of pricing and stay afloat don’t we?
I don’t want anybody to get the wrong idea, that I am a ‘sell it cheap just to get the business’ merchant.
I’m not. It’s simply that, for example, some van graphics using £30 worth of vinyl which I apply and charge out at £225 are simply, in my humble opinion, overpriced at £450! -
I dont think anybody thinks that! I think its just all about getting together with the signees in your area and agreeing on some sort of structure band. Dont get me wrong, i appreciate that some areas have higher standards of living, i.e. london,etc so prices are likely to be higher than other places.
But what Rob says is pretty spot-on, if the customer’s quotes are similar then its down to quality of design and customer service, etc. Whats the point in having a price-war (:) with your local competitor as there is far enough work to go around after all it is a billion pound industry, we are all here to make a living, and hopefully a nice profit on top.
I think this is what the Signboards are all about, we should all be talkng, helping, and advising each other. Dont we all want to be here this time next year or even in ten years?
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Hell if the market in my area could sustain pricing at those levels Martin and it only cost £3 in materials I would charge £450, we are in business to make money end of story, charge the 450 instead of 225, think about it this way, you could work half as hard for the same amount of money, you of all people are one to call overpricing 😕 didn’t you used to work for Yellow Pages? they are about as overpriced as you’ll get, in my local book Peterborough they want £400 for a poxy business card sized ad, by comparison what do you percieve as better value a. well designed and eye catching vehicle signage that will last for the life of the vehicle, say 3 years or b. £400 a year for some paper and a bit of black printing ink. Also I once tried to figure out how much an edition of Yewllow Pages is worth to them but I ran out of zeros on my calculator. 😆
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I agree with Martin to a point. If a sign company is efficient, knows their software well and has minimum overheads it is even possible they make more ‘back pocket’ profit from £225 than another large and clumsy company charging £450. There are many variables.
Alan -
Steve,
You miss my point. I happily done this van for £225. The other company didn’t! I got the business, they didn’t! I’m getting the repeat business, they aren’t!
I don’t always look at customers from the point of view of what they can afford, (although it’s a natural thing to do) been stung like that too many times in sales. Scruffy urchin, backside hanging out of his trousers who turns out to be a multi millionaire. I look at my costs, what I need to earn, what I think the job is worth and ‘frankly ma’m I don’t give a damn’ about whether someone else is selling the same at £500 or £50! I’ve undercharged and overcharged if ‘market’ prices touted on here are to be believed but never knowingly made a loss.
One of the local franchisees in the area quoted for some window signs that took me 4 hours to do. At £230 I was under their price by £100. Good luck to them, but again I got the business, earnt well, got the repeat business and have just done 50 shirts for the secretaries footy team!
I think its just all about getting together with the signees in your area and agreeing on some sort of structure band.
Why? This as Steve says is business. If a local signmaker goes boots up because they are too dear or I go boots up because I’m too cheap, ce la vie…….! 😕 I can’t seethe Fast Signs of this world reducing their advertising, their overheads or their workforce to accomodate me so the thought of jumping in bed with the devil (hot) to strengthen prices is a no, no! 👿
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quote :Steve,
You miss my point. I happily done this van for £225. The other company didn’t! I got the business, they didn’t! I’m getting the repeat business, they aren’t!
I have to ask this 😕 did you get the job by copying their design? or was it yours that they liked better?
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One final analogy!! 😛
Last year my neice who was working in a travel agents at the time sorted out a discount for a holiday to Majorca. £1470 reduced from £1580. I was an hour away from booking it, went on the net. Same hotel, same accomodation, booked the flights direct with Brittania and the hotel through a Majorcan agent. Total cost £960. Was everyone making a loss or were the travel company having it away?
Was I a customer hell bent on the lowest price or just doing sensible business?
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My design entirely. He only wanted his name on the side and a phone number. I flowered it up a bit with some shading and design, pushed the price up from what he had had on his previous vehicle (Plain Navy on white van) done the job and didn’t even know he’d had a competitive quote til afterwards.
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The I’d have to see both designs side by side to compare what you both were offering. No offence but you can’t compare a ford fiesta to a rolls royce, they both may be cars but thats where the similarity ends. 🙂
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quote :you can’t compare a ford fiesta to a rolls royce, they both may be cars but thats where the similarity ends
I know what you mean, those Rolls Royces are a bugger to park 😆
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I’m in a position as Chunkie lad.. My wife earns far more than me, it has been said this is my hobby.
What I was saying is its not just a few quid here and there its hundreds of pounds,
As you have said Martin you were £100 cheaper (that is a very large margin).
Now I wouldn’t mind earning £20-40 a day all tax free, for a couple of hours here and there.
I could maintain this amount forever; putting lots of people out of work.
A Company up the road was charging £40.00 each for a 3’x2’ foamex builders board, they have now cut there price to £12.00, I worked out they can only be earning around £5.00 profit..
How would you feel if I lived in your area and was happy to earn this little, I’m not too bad at designing, so the signs should look quite good, how long would it be before you cut your prices or go out of business?….. (By the way I’m not directing this at anyone in particular by the way 🙄 )Have a good day
Simon
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quote :As you have said Martin you were £100 cheaper (that is a very large margin).
No they were £100 dearer! 😮 A subtle difference but relevant none the less. They were overpriced, I could have knocked another £100 off and still have been well in.
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quote :Lets agree what our prices are going to be” He’d laugh. Do you see Ford and Vauxhal doing this or Asda and Tesco or even the local corner shops and builders? No they fight and the fittest wins – BUSINESS.
hi craig
its not a case of agreeing on prices mate. pricing should be roughly the same, based on like for like.
the better company, salesman, more so the BETTER quality of WORK. will then be the customers choice. why fight a price war, only for you to loose sleep and run ragged for nothing?i think you are very lucky to have dewi as a freind rather than a competitor. you are only 50 yards from his place & have only just started up. with this in mind and the way you intend pricing jobs i cannot see how things will work out for you both long term.
its nothing personal i just think you have to be realistic.. you are the new kid on the block. come in on a professional level rather than ‘in it to make some extra money’. -
no probs mate.. just trying to give as honest an opinion as possible.. 😉
quote :as it happens our work doesn’t actually cross over that much anywayoh right i see.. do you mean your doing only signs based on your existing clients or something..? 🙄
with that in mind, i think i see were your coming from.. i sorta thought you were doing signs, vans etc much the same as dewi really. 😕fair enough..
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quote :The design and film making (usually training videos) sides are earning me lots of money. Vinyl is just the next step….The next step? Sideways surely, or even backwards? 😮
Sorry if I don’t quite understand how you got to vinyl sign making from film making 😕 -
Very good discussion team, as we are all coming clean about costs there is 1 aspect that has been side tracked,
…. The Hourly Rate!!! 😀
I try my best to charge a fair rate of pay but find it increasingly difficult to charge more than £25 per hour, now I use this figure to price signs & vans, e.g. – for a van job = cutting & weeding vinyls, then prepare for application (line up & cut up ready to go on site) 3-4 hours, go on site prepare van & apply 3 hours, in total 7 hours labour = £175 on top of this is added vinyls & design time, so a basic van job that’s 20 miles away can be quoted at £250 approx. This is only an example, but increasingly I’m finding this a good way to start the quoting process.
Another rate per hour I was told to look at by a very good friend who’s a graphic designer is garage rates, if a local garage is charging out at £40 per hour why can’t we??
Have I opened another can of worms??
Steve
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did comparing a sign man to a spanner monkey come from?
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Good question.
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Barney, I wasn’t
quote :comparing a sign man to a spanner monkeyI was trying to say look at what other trades are charging out at, I might have over estimated my local garage’s hourly rate, it’s more like £30 hour, I’ll ask him next time I see him down the pub, anyway garages have workshops to pay for, tools to buy, wages to pay etc. similar overheads to sign firms.
I’ve just found out the rate for washing machine engineers 😮 £35 call out charge then £35 per hour.I’m just approaching this discussion from a different angle, why shouldn’t a solo sign man charge out at £35 per hour when a ‘suds monkey’ can get away with it & the public don’t question it 😕
Steve
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i paid 179 for a clutch at mr clutch wandsworth
it lasted 7 months
i took it back today
they changed it in an hour
i still had to give them a further 50 pounds
it was under guaranteethey use remanufactured parts
so guaging the material cost at 30 pounds
i reckon any uk mr clutch is whacking you at 150 per hour
so – 30 pounds an hour is just plainly unreasonable as an argument
and i’m not advocating you charge 150 per hour simply that
when you total up actual time taken to, for arguments sake do
a single colour transit, the customer being 10 miles away
travelling there and back twice is 4 hours
the initial consultation is 1 hour
design time should be at least 3 hours
cut weed stick 2 hours
total 10 hours at 50 pounds an hour
500 pounds – not including materials
trannys for even a couple of hundred is a joke.
charge for your time! -
have you not been watching the crooks on tv’s house of horrors?
i’m not saying become criminal
simply charge at least 50 quid an hour
phone up your local ‘graphic designer’
and ask if they charge less than 200 pounds per! -
Spot on Barney 😀 😀
That’s what I wanted to hear! From now on all vans £500 + materials! YES!!! 😛 😛 😛
BUT……..
Last week quoted a van at £220, (so called) client came back to me & told me (with a sickly grin on his face) ‘Sorry mate, another sign co has quoted me £150’ (:)
Then he had the cheek to add ‘… and they would only charge another 20 quid for it to be done in reflective vinyl’ 👿
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Bloody hell, how can any profit be made on a job like that for £150??
From experience, if you quote a job over the odds most people think they are getting quality for a higher price. And from my limited sign experience if I quote a price I think is high it seems to work out about right once all the little details I forgot about in the quote have been taken care of.And things always seem to take me twice as long as I first estimate…but thats just me 😀
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Steve they could be new and havn’t looked at their pricing properley. go to admit i have done that b4 on a spure of the moment price and regreted it after.
Also he may be calling your bluff.
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Just thought I would add my comment here……
Price wars will always be there, but as long as you there abouts the same price you should be ok. If you miles out you will lose business. I come from a sales orientated background and found consumers buy items off people not companies. If they likeyou, like your designs, like the way your business works it doesn’t matter too much if you a bit dearer than the next bloke. Usually quality of work/materials (once its explained to the customer) always wins the sale. Also always up sell!!!
Example…Customer wants a cheap shop sign and has been quoted by another company for a 5/10mm PVC board with one colour graphics….
I tell him about the advantages and disadvantages of using PVC and up sell him to rynobond, adding extra colours his original design. Or even adding flat cut/3d lettering to the design.
He/She instantly feels you know what your talking about, your taking an interest in his business thus he trust you and your opinion and because your taking a bit of time with him he already is partly sold on you!!!
I then show the designs….
You can have this one for £££
Or (more excited voice) this one for £££
Also I usually give him some mid priced options.I must admit it’s very rarely they choose the cheaper sign, From there you can add an extra £££ on.
Then you have the closing question….
So which one do like?
What one do you prefer?Before you know it you’ve got the order!
In addition … You will always get the odd person that only wants your cheapest price possible, thats where you need to work harder to make sure they come back.
I hope this helps some of you out.
Stephen
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Hi Liam & Mort,
I’m pretty sure he was taking the P i s s, I’m not playing those games… No Way 👿
Stephen, some very valid points there mate, thanks…….
Steve
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Last week I bid on a cement truck job.
Big trucks, 4 of em, they take a lot of abuse.
I was gonna paint the barrels & do the backs in vynull.
I quoted $600/truck plus a 1-time set up/pattern fee.
The guy laughed & said he had already been quoted $175/truck buy some licky-sticky “sign maker” up the street.
I charge more than that for 2 truck doors!
And there would be more than $175 in materials for the job.
I know it wasn’t a hoax, tho, because the guy has done all their other trucks (rather poorly at that)
I will just sit and smile like the Cheshire cat as this jerk lowballs himself right out of business! GRRRRR
Love…Jill -
Hi Jill, where’s Stevo ? 😉 😉
Very depressing to see it happens in your part of the world as well 😥
And the only people laughing are the customers who think they’re getting a better deal (:)
So the sticker monkey makes a couple of dollars (just) & the truck owner ends up with some very tatty looking stickers that are probably cheap vinyl (sorry Vynull 😉 ) which shrinks & rucks after a couple of sunny days, so who wins??Ho Hum
Stevie
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I sure hope that the cement company comes crawling back to me
after their vynull falls off. I’ll add more to the price!
Then me-n-Stevo can afford to buy the “sign maker’s” Edge!
hahahaha
love…Jill
Chin up big fella! 😉 -
I have decided to give you great people a present….
Figuring out what to charge is a difficult business. But actually it is only a small part of what is known as the ‘marketing mix’.
Let me explain – marketing – or running a business – of which marketing is the basis as it is of all businesses, has several different aspects. Some years ago I wrote a book called Marketing Magic which boiled down the theory – cut the crap – and explained in simple terms why you should charge more than you think – among other things – many other things. It wasn’t aimed specifically at the sign business, but at small business in general. Back then the course was £150 but I will share some of it here with you. Here is chapter two.
Enjoy it, if you like it I may post more. If not, say so and I won’t bother, but in truth many businesses have benefitted enormously from this and you might too. The trouble is that this kind of stuff usually costs a fortune, and guess what, here you get it free…..
It is up on my server and here is the link:
http://www.ipw.com/signs/mmc02.pdf
Ray
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