How long to you let the solvent flash off before laminating

[John Childs]

Minimum 24 hours.

We store ours vertically on the rolls from the take-up.

After laminating we will fit straight away.

[DaneRead]

yip i thought that was about right.

what type of ink are you running john

[John Childs]

quote DaneRead:

what type of ink are you running john

Mimaki SS21.

[Shane Drew]

quote John Childs:

Minimum 24 hours.

We store ours vertically on the rolls from the take-up.

After laminating we will fit straight away.

me too….. running techink solvent on my 540ex. This time of year we have very high humidity, so I’ll try and leave it as long as I can, or have a fan blowing over it while it lays flat on a table. I try and print 48 hours in advance, not always possible tho..

[DaneRead]

ok cool so its all mid solvent ink

its such a problem where we are because if you leave the prints out dust settles on them then when you try and laminate you have a problem

but if you keep it in a roll form the solvents dont flash out

thats the problem we have been having

[Shane Drew]

make sure your roll is loosely wound so air can move freely. Sit the core off the ground on one of the plastic sleeves that comes in the full roll. Every time you walk past the roll, give it a gentle rock back and forth.

I have to do that in really humid weather. Because the solvent is heavier than air, you need it on the core holder to let air move under the roll, otherwise it will sit in the pocket above the floor and have nowhere to go.

Hope that helps.

Cheers
Shane

[DaneRead]

good idea
i have been trying ot hang them flat out bbut dust has been the problem
\
good thinking

[Benno]

I made a system for my rolls, that sucks the solvents away.
I’ll try and post a pic soon.

[Shane Drew]

quote Benno:

I made a system for my rolls, that sucks the solvents away.
I’ll try and post a pic soon.

Ezytaper have a really good design to dry prints upright on a role. I’ve seen a prototype, but warrick is busy in other areas and has not done any more with it.

I might give crying a go….. it works for the wife 😉

[DaneRead]

great would love to see how they do it. Please post the pics

Regards

Dane

[Robert Lambie]

From what i have learned is that solvent is heavier than air so rather than evaporate upwards it sort of falls downwards. this i would guess is the reason if the prints are left flat the adhesive and vinyl can get very elasticated whilst the solvents are still in the prints which causes bother trying to fit or laminate premature.

we made up some drying racks a while back and where a bit like the old clothes horse pulley system that you hung the prints from using a series of bull-dog clips to hold the print then you just hoisted the prints up out the way to dry/rid of solvent.
again i was advised that this is the best way to do it but to place them on the rack hanging the shortest length. i.e. on its side. this is because the solvent has shorter to fall as opposed to the length. so in effect… if you hung a 100" print by 48 inch wide vertical. the top will be clear of solvents far quicker than the bottom. if that makes sense?

ive probably explained that pretty poorly but i was reading up on this when we wee kitting our place out about 5 years ago waiting on arrival of our first solvent printer. if i am right, i think it was Rodney Gold that gave us a pretty detailed explanation of how and why all this happens.

anyway… hope i have managed to explain just a fraction of his advice to me. 😀

[DaneRead]

yes that sounds good.

our problem is that in our warehouse we do have quite a bit of dust so it is a problem. Our premises is very small and we have outgrown it drastically. But it is very difficult to move as there is no where in Gaborone. Also it is very costly. We have decided to stick it out this year due to the econmic difficulties.
Hence if we hang the print up in our warehouse dust if going to settle on them big time. So i would prefer to find out about the other method of sucking the solvents out. Was thinking of a kind of drum with a fan maybe. Any suggestions. That will at least fit in the area where we have little dust.

[John Childs]

Daneread, I understand your problems, but wonder whether you are not worrying about it excessively.

Hanging prints up to dry is a lovely idea but, apart from being a labour intensive process, quite a lot of our stuff comes off the printer in fifty metre rolls, so it is not really practical for us.

As mentioned above, just store them vertically, loose wound on the roll, and I’m sure you’ll be fine. Certainly, we’ve never had any problems.

[kev keane]

excuse the potentially stupid question, but does eco-solvent have this same outgass requirement? i was under the impression that eco-colvent can be laminated straight away (well thats what one of the guys we have bought print off before does and its never seemed a problem, with only a minute or two between printing and laminating?)… just preparing to get our first printer set up so hungry for tips and to avoid potential pitfalls.. many thanks!

[DaneRead]

point taken
you are probably right

[ChrisBroad]

quote kev keane:

excuse the potentially stupid question, but does eco-solvent have this same outgass requirement? i was under the impression that eco-colvent can be laminated straight away (well thats what one of the guys we have bought print off before does and its never seemed a problem, with only a minute or two between printing and laminating?)… just preparing to get our first printer set up so hungry for tips and to avoid potential pitfalls.. many thanks!

Was just about to ask the same question!
We’ve been running two Eco-Solvent equipped Roland Machines for the last 2+ years and have just taken delivery of a Mimaki JV33 with full solvent inks.

As a general rule, we allow 24 hours after printing before mounting to board and/or laminating, leaving it standing vertical loosely rolled.
This however, is not always possible, cue impatient customer!
Although it can be tricky mounting vinyl to board shortly after it’s been printed, it’s by no means impossible.

It would be interesting to know how the Full and Eco solvents differ in this respect?

[Gert du Preez]

Dane,

I have even more problems than you: My business is in Swakopmund, and we have a gravel road passing right in front of the shop. Opposite the road is a Quad-Bike adventure company, then a Bike shop, then a car wash, then the workshop for both the bike shop and Quad Rentals. Young, vacationing hooligans ( and mechanics….) scream past the front door at 7000 rpm all day long, on a dirt road…..

I usually lay the print flat for an hour or so (if possible) then loosely roll it up and leave it on the drying rack until tomorrow. Lets say between 12 and 24 hours before laminating. The print is ALWAYS full of dust. I wipe it off with a damp cloth (90% water 10% alcohol mixture) before laminating. The cloth is only slightly damp, not wet.

Something else you could consider is to get a "biltong cabinet" to gas your prints. I saw one at an auction a while back that would be perfect. Simply replace the gauze screen with glass. They already have fans and heaters in them, ready to go! ( or get a carpenter to build a similar type of cabinet for you. A small toilet fan should be perfect to clear the air in the cabinet. You’ll have to install a filter at the air inlet to stop the dust)

I have laminated a lot of prints within minutes of printing ( I know, planning….) but thus far have not noticed any failures as a result. I guess it depends on ink coverage a lot as well.

I use Roland Ecosol Max ink.

[Phill Fenton]

quote kev keane:

excuse the potentially stupid question, but does eco-solvent have this same outgass requirement? i was under the impression that eco-colvent can be laminated straight away (well thats what one of the guys we have bought print off before does and its never seemed a problem, with only a minute or two between printing and laminating?)… just preparing to get our first printer set up so hungry for tips and to avoid potential pitfalls.. many thanks!

I’ve never heard of this before and would have assumed that ecosolvent needed 24 hours drying time just like everything else. However, if this is true – this gives a even greater impetus for anyone to switch to an ecosolvent ink

[Peter Normington]

I have never had a problem doing the same as John, loosely wound and stood on their end, and as Shane says give them a shake now and again.

Peter

[Phill Fenton]

quote Peter Normington:

I have never had a problem doing the same as John, loosely wound and stood on their end, and as Shane says give them a shake now and again.

Peter

I thought we were talking about inks not penises 😕

[David Rowland]

well we laminate at touch dry quite often, not a problem yet. most prints get laminated after 2-3 hours max.

we use ss2 ink and jv3

[Shane Drew]

Technically eco inks needs 24 hours too. Its more dependent on the humidity in the air than anything else. If its a ‘dry’ heat, then there would, technically, be no issue with leaving it for say 6 hours.

But, if your RIP is laying down a lot of ink, especially darker colours, the outgasing will take longer. Do a test yourself. Print a solid black panel – A4. Let it dry for 2 hours. Then slice the sample down the centre and leave it for 24 hours. If it curls, then the ink was not outgassed enough.

The theory is, put your nose to the graphic and see if you can smell any odour (best if you are a non smoker). If you can, then it is still outgassing.

Definately a no no to laminate straight after printing though. You’ll void your warranty for a start.

Also, its not so much what it will do to the laminate, but what the ink does to the adhesives.

Typically, a freshly printed material will change the structure of the adhesive on both the laminate and the printed material. This can be a bad thing, as the adhesive may damage the duco on the vehicle in some circumstances. I’ve seen some sign companies push the envelope and when the print has been removed, the white duco had gone yellow under the print. Thats the downside to letting it continue to ‘dry’ on the vehicle.

The first way a manufacturer will check your warranty if a claim is made, is to check the structure of the adhesive. Its like a fingerprint in that sense. There is no denying if the ink had not outgassed long enough.

Laminates will react differently of course. Best to stay with matched components because mismatched laminated/vinyl will react differently.

All that said, I’ve laminated within 6 hours and had little trouble, but I’ve had issues with adhesion when laminating and applying within a few hours… with both eco and solvent inks.

[Martin Oxenham]

If we need a print quick then we blast it from the back with a hot air gun.
Don’t do it from the front or it will just dry the surface trapping in gas.