how do you make your own "A" boards?

[Steve Broughton]

Bob you’ll still have to paint the wooden frame or it’ll rot, 10 mil foam is ok if a bit light, and if you need a coloured substrate you’ll have an ugly white edge to the board, I make the all wooden ones cos they look so much better quality than the foam ones, depends if the customer is after a quality looking sig or a cheap looking sign.

[Carrie Brown]

Hi Bob,

The problem with any PVC foamex is the expansion, even 10mm will warp. I have just came back off a sign job where the client used 10mm before from another company on their main sign an it’s looking bad.

I would recommend using either exterior grade mdf of marine ply or similar. But you still need to make sure it is undercoated well and has a few top coats to make it last. The other option is to buy-in standard steel powder coated a-boards from someone like ‘all metal pressings’. I think they work out at just over £40.00 a shot plus delvery. Let me know if you need thier number. This is in most cases the cheapest option.

If your client wants something fancier then make a wooden one with some mouldings to finish the job off, like we have done in the past.

I hope this helps 😀
Stephen

[Richard Urquhart]

if you do want to make your own you could always finish edge with Stock frame from jag signs its PVC and just sticks on with tape ,i would just buy a ready made a board there so cheap if you look around in the sign mags
rich

[Cookster]

Try PH Products 01327 350751, It’s not worth the hassle of making your own A boards, just buy them in, whack on some graphics and give em the invoice! thank you very much.

[Andy Gorman]

Steve, does the picture of your A board still exist on the site? That was ace I thought, and shows just how much posher a custom built one is.

[Steve Broughton]

Yeah here

[Robert Lambie]

i think your A boards look great steve, i take it they are wood?

ide never use any sort of MDF for an “A” board.
“A” boards take a bit of a pounding. if not blown/kicked over they are dragged in and out of pubs etc. no matter how you seal them they will get bashed, scored, chipped or worse. this exposing them to the rain, eventualy pulping and looking drab. i think signs in general are fine becuase they are up out the way.. but “A” boards? 😕

[Carrie Brown]

We make our own wooden A-boards using mdf and we also buy in powder coated steel ones. We leave it up to the client to choose which they prefer. Some of our clients wooden a-boards which we made over two years ago still look great, I will have to get some pics next time I am out and about and post them up.

If they are made correctly as described in Steves previous posts I do not see a problem at all with wooden ones. Plenty of undercoat and top coats and you have a nice end result that will stand up to a bit of bashing.

As far as I see it, powder coated steel a-boards if bashed and dragged around are not immune to scratches or chips either. The wooden ones we make in house are heavier than the steel ones we buy in so are less likely to blow over.

Carrie 😀

[Peter Normington]

Wooden a boards are fine and so are mdf and steel, to make them in house though is very labour intensive, unless you are making them in large numbers its got to be cheaper to buy them in. Of course if a customer wants the hand made look, and is willing to pay for it thats fine.
a boards are not rolls royces, most peeps want a ford, does the job, at a price most people are willing to pay.
Peter

[Robert Lambie]

couldnt agree more.. we also make the odd wooden A board.
my worry is with the MDF. unless housed around the edges with a wood frame. the MDF will get bashed at the edges and pulp.
we have a huge timber supplier half a mile from me, they now refuse to offer medite or mdf to the public because they say they dont prepair it proper. (of course this is not what i implying we do) what i mean is. no matter how well we prepair and seal Medite or mdf it will get the “edges” bashed of the facing on a bog standard “A” board. once this happen the seal is gone and incomes the damp to pulp.
of course there will be boards that last longer than others. MDF or not.. i just wouldnt advise it for an “A” board. 😕

[Robert Lambie]

oops nearly forgot… metal “A” boards are just as bad. i agree.. very seldom do you get good ones at a good price.

[Bill Dewison]

When I first setup I bought a chock load of metal economy A boards from Cherwell signs, and some of my early orders where for these, obviously lettered up. Nearly 12 months on, I can honestly say they look like new (except the odd one could do with a good hosing down 😉 ) One of them is used by an off license and is sited on a very busy road. It falls down occassionally, which isn’t good, but the A board is pretty tough and seems to deal with this type of abuse quite well.

On the wooden side of the fence, again, boards I’ve made from scratch seem to be holding up well. I’ve used the exterior ply with lots of paint as I was worried about the MDF failing.

With more time, I’d love to be able to make more A boards by hand, but its unfortunate that I’ve chosen a way of doing business that means I have to buy in and ship out very quickly. After saying that though, I am making a couple of unusual A Boards at the moment, but only because they’ve been requested specifically by a regular customer. If you have the time and the patience, I’d make them out of wood and lots of paint 😀 No time or no patience, buy them in 😕

Cheers, Dewi

[Steve Broughton]

:banghead: Robert I get sooooo fed up with telling you about MDF EXTERNAL GRADE MDF ok in “your opinion” you should not use MDF but as you’ve never used it how can you have an opinion??? you are wrong! if its prepared correctly it will last as long as perspex/foamboard, on one of my boards there is NO chance of the edges getting bashed as they are dropped into a rebate on the frame and then covered with the OG archetrave. :banghead:
and anyway you wouldn’t be able to lift one. 😉 :lol1:
Dewi :-

quote :

I was worried about the MDF failing.

don’t listen to Rob he is wrong!!!! :banghead:

[Bob @ Prestige]

Looks like this is turning into a “minimum wage” type of post, beginning to wish I hadn’t asked now

Bob 😳

[Bill Dewison]

Nah, have you ever seen the size of Steve? 😮 I ain’t arguing with him! :lol1:

Cheers, Dewi

[Robert Lambie]

steve

quote :

my boards there is NO chance of the edges getting bashed as they are dropped into a rebate on the frame and then covered with the OG

isn’t this what i said Steve?

rob

quote :

my worry is with the MDF. unless housed around the edges with a wood frame. the MDF will get bashed at the edges and pulp

for the record this is just my opinion, but i come to this conclusion after binning old signs built “wrongly” using the same stuff. unless it is being used by someone that knows exactly what they are doing, ide say why bother? “use wood”
i also asked about it from a couple of guys i know well in a massive timber plant very close to me. they said the same.. too many come backs from general public so don’t sell it unless ordered from a joiner/pro.

so my “advice” is not wrong. unless the (“A” Board) has edges protected properly and prepared correctly it is liable to be damaged and pulp due to the way “a” boards are treated.
at the end of the day, its only my opinion and the reader can make their own mind up, if they go with it, then at least they will make sure its all sealed correctly.

[Steve Broughton]

Right where’s me boxing gloves :lol1: Robert the correct material is Medite Exterior it will NOT pulp quote :once this happen the seal is gone and incomes the damp to pulp the attached pic is a piece of untreated exterior that has sat outside my workshop for the past 2 years, want to tell me where it has pulped due to the damp ??, yes ordinary MDF is rubbish and swells like a sponge with water but this stuff doesn’t.
Granted if you knock it about the paint will scuff but foam scuffs too, but the weather will not adversely affect it, it would need a hell of a wind to blow one of these over they weigh about 30 pound

[Steve Thurlow]

Now now ladies…. put your handbags away!!! :nana:

I’ve always thought a sheet of Correx bent in the middle with a sand bag placed on the top (for stability) was a good budget A board :thumbup2:

Cheers Steve :drums:

[Gary Davis]

steve B do you have shares in medite!!? 😀

joking aside, i had my doubts but after seeing that pic it looks pretty durable stuff, Is it suitable for large signs say 6×4 or will it warp? Or does it stay true whatever the weather?!

[Steve Broughton]

I wish mate :lol1: just do a search in the “show us your stuff” section mate and search under my name and you’ll find a few 😕 and NONE of them have failed.

Hey Steve I’m not worried mate, Rob would never reach without a step ladder :lol1: :lol1:

[Brian Little]

Yep Steve …..im sorry to all you foamx fans…..but ifyou want a really good qaulity sign theres no subtitute for wood…(well dibond looks great to i must admit!!) . These signs look great. 😀

Regards brian

[Steve Thurlow]

HAAA :giggle:

Sorry Steve, I didn’t see your post with the Medite Exterior sample pics, looks like good stuff!

The ‘Angel’ pub sign I did last year was an old bit of MDF, it had been hanging there for years, just a bit of damp expansion on the bottom edge, customer wouldn’t pay for a new board so I sploshed some exterior PVA over it, let it dry for a few days then covered it with vinyl, and it still looks fine.

(…… and your A frames look wonderful)

:drums:

[Gary Davis]

steve B what do you do if you have to screw into the face (before im shot down for screwing into the face of a sign, this is a hypothetical question! :lol1: )
wont it get damp through or do you paint over the screw head and surrounding area?

[Lee Jones]

Sorry Rob, I respect your opinion but have to agree with Steve on this one, Medite exterior grade MDF is very durable / hard wearing and does not pulp………. Let’s make it clear, Steve has only ever stated to use Medite exterior MDF, not just MDF or exterior MDF as supplied by many wood yards.The trouble is many wood yards can sell you exterior grade MDF, its just not the same, looks similar and as far as they are concerned it is Exterior grade MDF, but not MEDITEThere are very few places to obtain real Medite MDF and the company i use is William T Eden Ltd, They import directly from Weyerhaeuser.
I also ran some tests on some small pieces before committing myself to purchasing, ( good thing really , as I came back with a van load of it ) and it does NOT pulp, in fact because of the fiber bonding using a specially formulated polyurethane resin, moisture absorption is not a factor.
Link to Medite properties
Made a load of these A-boards to Steve’s Spec’s, and believe me, they do not fall over !Also while on the subject, I was also warned about the use of MDF for sign making due to its ability to kill, Again a misnomer, while ordinary MDF could seriously damage your health, Medite Exterior does not contain large amounts of formaldehyde……….Medite is produced using a polyurea resin matrix adhesive rather than urea-formaldehyde or phenol-formaldehyde, so there is almost no formaldehyde out-gassing, The formaldehyde that is in the product, is limited to natural formaldehyde’s that were contained in the wood prior to manufacture.

[Bill Dewison]

As Steve B knows, I was duped not so long ago with what was supposed to be Medite (ie sold to me as that) but when I posted on here to shine on about the green dust caked all over my workshop, I was quickly told I had the wrong stuff. Do the manufacturers of medite not stamp something on the material to make it more recognisable? 😕

Cheers, Dewi

[Steve Broughton]

Sometimes I screw through the face, countersink and a circle of vinyl to cover the screw head, sometimes screwcaps, or more often I use an angled split batten, like this.
I fit the batten to the rear of the sign before I paint it then fill the countersunk hole with fast setting flexible car body filler, then paint the sign, fitting signs like this on your own are a doddle, fit batten to wall, hang sign on batten then screw up, I’ve fitted 8×4 on me todd like this, obviously with more than one batten though.

[Lee Jones]

quote Dewi:

Do the manufacturers of medite not stamp something on the material to make it more recognisable? 😕

Cheers, Dewi

The last boards I got, had “MEDITE EXTERIOR” stamped on all the edges !

[Lee Jones]

quote dtg:

steve B what do you do if you have to screw into the face (before im shot down for screwing into the face of a sign, this is a hypothetical question! :lol1: )
wont it get damp through or do you paint over the screw head and surrounding area?

I have recently used 2 mounting battens across the top and bottom of sign, secured with fibreglass and resin, these then fit inside a channel, attached to the building, and screwed in place…………. Simple, no screws / holes in the MDF

[Robert Lambie]

fast reply here, just popping out.

if medite is so durable, why is it that every time i read about it, even in your posts steve, there is always the mention of how it should be prepaired properly or may fail?

if it does not warp like you have shown with a bare peice lying around in the rain, why all the prep?

if it is as good as being stated, then fine. thumbs up!

[Gary Davis]

thanks steve & lee, some very useful tips on fitting as well!

[Steve Broughton]

quote :if medite is so durable, why is it that every time i read about it, even in your posts steve, there is always the mention of how it should be prepaired properly or may fail?
the paint mate the paint, correct painting proceduresquote :if it does not warp like you have shown with a bare peice lying around in the rain, why all the prep?Cos its a flipping awful colour, you mean they do cerise pink foamboard?? well I’ve wasted my time covering that WHITE 10mm foam then. Here you go mate have another box on me cos you’ve obviously dropped all the ones you were clutching at

[Bill Dewison]

Treading dangerously here, but I think what Robert was refering to was your earlier comments in a thread where ext. MDF was discussed…

quote Steve Broughton:

exterior MDF but you must prepare it properly and paint with a good quality exterior paint, I use Crown Stronghold Exterior Primer/Undercoat & Gloss, 2 coats of each then you’ll get 5 years at least out of it

Now before you ask me outside for a game of conkers, I always thought the reason for the primer/undercoat was to seal it. If its not, fair play and I’ve learned something new.

Cheers, Dewi

[Chris Wool]

this thread is better than corri

[Steve Broughton]

Dewi when painting anything be it wood, metal, plastic whatever, the secret to the top coats longevity and final quality is preparation of the substrate, its not so much about protectiong the substate (although it helps i.e. in cars protecting the metalwork from rust) you could just slap loads of gloss onto mdf but the paint would look crap and fail NOT the substrate. The paint I always use is specially designed for exterior use and has a much longer life than your average B&Q tin of gloss, its about a quality finish not looking like sandpaper.

[Lee Jones]

Blimey, you guy’s are on the ball today……….. was just about to answer Dewi’s statement, and Steve had already jumped in.

[Bill Dewison]

So if I’m understanding this correctly, I don’t need to use the MDF sealer stuff before I paint? I’ve always sealed, undercoated, then applied the top coats… it’d save cash and time to lose the sealer.

Cheers, Dewi

[Carrie Brown]

Dewi we dont use a sealer, just undercoat & gloss. 😀

At the end of the day its all down to customer preference, if they want a wooden one and are happy to spend the money then ok. If they want a steel one, then ok. As long as the wooden ones are made properly and not just slapped together then they should last and look great for yonks.

Im just babbling now and all I wanted to originally say was the top line 😮

Carrie 😀 … I have a headache 🙁 .. seriously have a headache Im not being sarcastic here as in the post is getting on my nerves.

[Steve Broughton]

MDF sealer is a con mate its just watered down PVA glue :lol1:
I do it this way:-
1st coat Crown Stronghold Primer/ Undercoat
2nd coat as above
3rd coat Crown Stronghold Gloss
4th coat as above
a lightsanding between coats to give a key (although I use a Scotchbrite pad not sandpaper, why scotchbrite? cos I get it for free :lol1: )
If the sign is single sided you can get away with only one gloss coat on the reverse, when painting I let the paint set up for 5 or 10 minutes then go over lightly with an almost dry brush this will get rid of brush strokes.

[Lee Jones]

Same here, just undercoat and gloss, 2 coats of each with sponge roller gives a superb finish.

BTW, been pushing these A-boards out the door at £250, thanks again steve for showing “How To”

[Bill Dewison]

quote Carrie:

.. seriously have a headache Im not being sarcastic here as in the post is getting on my nerves.

Spade? 😉

I knew that MDF sealer reminded me of something!!! 👿 Its similar stuff that they use on walls isn’t it? 😳 Ah well, it saves me some money and alot of extra time. I paint pretty similar to that Steve, just that I’ve been putting 1 coat of undercoat, 3 gloss… considering undercoat is cheaper than gloss, I’ve been making stuff the expensive way 😕

Cheers, Dewi

[Phill Fenton]

But…but…

…I made my workbench worksurface out of MDF, and yet despite varnishing it, it swelled up where water go into the cuts on the surface…. 😕

😉

[Lee Jones]

quote rightsigns:

But…but…

…I made my workbench worksurface out of MDF, and yet despite varnishing it, it swelled up where water go into the cuts on the surface….

WHAT THE …………..?????

:headbang2:

[Terry Bull]

Once upon a time in the early days of sticker technology an old sclool signpainter produced all his signs with a paintbrush
these signs were painted onto far eastern plywood with lots of care and attention
and each used to take at best a week to produce
After several years the weather got to these signs as the paint failed
they would flake but could be brought back to life with a good sanding
and fresh preparation to live again with a new message
and so it went on ..that is until the launch of Medex (with the grey core)

Believing all the hype, signs from then on were made from this beautifully smooth product construction was the same as with ply except the edges would be rounded off to allow the paint to give greater coverage on this area

Many signs were painted,some were real long ones running all arond a local footy pitch

All done by hand many hours were taken and very nice they looked ….
for a while
then areas started to swell up mainly where the fixings were ,eventually
they all developed the same complaint
repainting was out of the question cause the board couldnt be repaired
so eventually all signs not lasting at least a season were reclad back to ply at my expence and embarrasment

My view though purely personal, is if the stuff needs so much attention
to make it durable why sell it as a weather proof wonder product
it needs to be coated out front AND BACK edges rounded and painted and no areas exposed …. fine but
‘soon as you drill ia hole in it to fit a screw youve broken the paint surface
and in goes the damp.all this hassle just to get a smooth sheet

These days my choosen timber sheet is birch ply, comes in various sizes and thicknesses and when painted in similar manner to steves suggestion
(two coats of each ) will last many years

as for Medex it makes great firewood… but signs no way ! not for me

I learn’t the hard way

Sorry Steve ..we still friends?

Terry

[Robert Lambie]

terry, :appl:

steve broughton:

quote :

a £4 tin of gloss from Wilkos ain’t gonna last as long as a quality exterior grade paint.
I use ONLY Crown Stronghold Exterior paints, the board gets 2 coats of stronghold primer undercoat front AND back then 2 coats of stronghold gloss front AND back also if the front face has a paint effect, fades etc it gets a coat of International Yacht Varnish. Works for me

.

henry wrote:

quote :

Medite is a brandname for exterior MDF, I remember ringing the factory in Holland from here, and they were really confident in the product although you hear some horror stories. They do a good brochure on painting techniques, finsh and general preparation. I think the failures you hear about are those that maybe haven’t followed the guidelines

.

Eddie cotter wrote:

quote :

medite have a factory only ten miles away from me which makes the mdf board
& they ship it all over the world, its a major seller on the irish market
most of the cabinet makers use it for making fitted kithens & wardrobes
every morning & evening four artics pass through my town on route
to the mdf factory in the next town with the glue to make it
it comes in from england liverpool i think? they use wood shavings from saw mills all over ireland, as henery put it , its down to the preperation of the stuff, its a very dense & compact material, you need to seal it before you prime it & use several thin coats so it sioaks in & gets a grip! Eddie

i always try and base my replies on experience, if i cant, i base it on what i have read here or wherever?. like i said.
i was told by a good freind with many years in the business of timber etc, from a huge firm close to me. he tells me it fails unless prepaired/fixed 100%
so much so they dont stock it for general public.
i believed him! still do…
i have read many posts you made on the material in question steve & many times i have read, prepair it right! paint it “front and back!” fill holes with auto filler etc.. in my view this is to SEAL. very seldom do i recall it being on how to get a proper coat/finish, but what do i know?

anyway, if i am wrong i am wrong! i am not clutching at anything or trying to win browny points.
my reply is based on what i believe, nothing more!

at the end of the day we will have to agree to disagree or this will turn into “another” long boring thread.

.

[Steve Broughton]

quote Terry:

Sorry Steve ..we still friends?

Terry

😉 oh and Medex is a trade name only and it went the same way as the VCR is going to go i.e. to be replaced by a superior product Medite

Rob, nor am I trying to earn brownie points either, my replies aren’t based on what I believe they are based on what I Know i.e. not speculation but on experience, I try not to make assumptions on equipment or materials I have not used, and as for the method I use to paint, it IS to give a top quality finish to the paint, I pity your missus if you just slap paint on any old way when you’re doing the decorating :lol1: and whats wrong with long posts? they are a laugh :lol1: we can agree to disagree but I’ll reserve the right to tell you when you’re wrong mate 😉 :lol1: :lol1: