how do i stop bubbles in vinyl?

[Peter Normington]

Jenny, blubs should not normally be there,
How do you apply?
Wet/ Dry
what type of squeegey,
does it happen on any particular substrata? or everything you apply to?
To many variables to suggest a remedy, maybe if you were more specific?

Peter

[Shane Drew]

quote Peter Normington:

Jenny, blubs should not normally be there,
How do you apply?
Wet/ Dry
what type of squeegey,
does it happen on any particular substrata? or everything you apply to?
To many variables to suggest a remedy, maybe if you were more specific?

Peter

yeah, what peter said :lol1:

Surface heat has a lot to do with it, as does humidity. You guys are experiencing a heat wave over there (read: normal queensland summer weather 😉 ) may be a contributing factor as well.

Shane
aka Bronzed Aussie (well pale white one anyway 😳 )

[Jayne Marsh]

I have noticed more problems in applying vinyl in the heat we have been having here lately. It makes the vinyl more stretchy and less forgiving. Ive got squeegee knuckle from pressing out bubbles :lol1:

[jennywho]

quote Peter Normington:

Jenny, blubs should not normally be there,
How do you apply?
Wet/ Dry
what type of squeegey,
does it happen on any particular substrata? or everything you apply to?
To many variables to suggest a remedy, maybe if you were more specific?

Peter

I apply mostly dry. But if I’m creating something layered I’ll use app fluid.
The small bubbles appear most when I apply to a dry survace. It has been a bit warmer, but they seem to happen reguarless of temperature.
I use a standard brown rubber squeegey. I am applying most of my vinyl to semi trucks, but noticed a similar bubble problem when i applied the vinyl to a signboard. i am thinking it must be my technique. or something.

[Shane Drew]

is that a 3M gold squeegee?

sounds like it is a technique problem. Also, make sure you have no ‘chips’ or ‘dents’ on the leading edge of the squeegee, as that will introduce bubbles too.

[jennywho]

quote Shane Drew:

is that a 3M gold squeegee?

I believe it is.

[Cheryl Tissington]

Hi ,
I used to have problems sometimes with bubbles in the vinyl when I used the plastic squeegees.

I always use a felt one now and no longer have that problem.

Cheryl 🙂

[jennywho]

quote Cheryl Tissington:

Hi ,
I used to have problems sometimes with bubbles in the vinyl when I used the plastic squeegees.

I always use a felt one now and no longer have that problem.

Cheryl 🙂

I happen to have a felt one laying around. We use it when we have to work with vinyl that has had the app tape removed.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of app tape do you use? I like the clear plastic kind. Others prefer the more opaque paper like stuff.

[Cheryl Tissington]

Hi,

I don’t like the clear app tape. I find it wrinkles up and can cause problems.

I like the paper tape, its more flexible and the felt squeegee just glides straight over it.

In the past, I was propably pressing too hard with the plastic ones. I find a lighter hand causes less bubbles and wrinkles.

Cheers,

Cheryl 🙂

[Alistair Richards]

On the topic of bubbles, I experienced some problems recently with applying to Alupanel, and some powder coated swing signs. Hinge method used as normal, dry app, tried both felt and 3M gold squeegies. I’m pretty sure my technique is fine, because I seem to be able to apply fine to vehicles and PVC foam. I did notice a few imperfections in the alupanel though, which could have caused a few bubbles, but not the amount I was getting. Any ideas anyone?

Ali

[Peter Normington]

I dont know if this will help, its the way I do it.

I use a consistant but fairly light pressure,to much muscle tends to stretch
the vinyl, especially in this heat.

oracle 751 onto foamex, felt squeegey, ( I may sometimes use 3m gold if app taped) 30C temp, I did the mistake at the end on purpose, just to show you can make a recovery. 😉

Peter

[Shane Drew]

quote Peter Normington:

I dont know if this will help, its the way I do it.

I use a consistant but fairly light pressure,to much muscle tends to stretch
the vinyl, especially in this heat.

oracle 751 onto foamex, felt squeegey, ( I may sometimes use 3m gold if app taped) 30C temp, I did the mistake at the end on purpose, just to show you can make a recovery. 😉

Peter

I do it the same way Peter. Good demo mate. Thanks for going to the trouble.

My ezy taper does it quicker, but small jobs like that are just as easy manually.

Cheers
Shane

[Alistair Richards]

Thanks for the great demo. :lol1: Exactly the way I do it too Peter. I can flood coat quite large pieces of foamex fine, but seem to get a few small bubbles with alupanel.

Nevermind 😕

[Darren Mooney]

Forgive my newbieness, I’m also fairly new to the game, I’ve always used hinge from the centre of the item, is this the approach you would always take or just on this occasion? Like the taping from the table approach rather than from the item… fair play to ye, excellent demo!

[Peter Normington]

the demo was more to show the tecnique of how I hold and move the sqeegee, mainly for the benefit of begginers, who quite often PULL the leading edge over the material rather than PUSHING, its a common mistake for a lot of people, and does encourage bubbles.

I tape or hinge as the job dictates, For a flood coat I like to have an overlap, then trim back to size.

Peter

[Adam McGuire]

Here’s a question close to my heart (after struggling with a van). I had to do some joined up text with a shadow and outline. I cut and applied the outline and shadow as one. I got lot’s of bubbles on a flat clean panel. It seemed that the vinyl had gone on smooth and flat as I couldn’t feel any bubbles through the app tape. As I was pulling the tape off, bubbles were appearing. If I put my finger on the back of the app tape behind a bubble, it stopped, if I carried on pulling the tape away, the bubble grew. I wouldn’t have said it was very hot as the panel was cool to the touch. I’d say no more than 25 degrees outside.

Any Suggestions? I was using a felt squeegee and 751c vinyl.

I did notice that if the application tape had bubbles between it and the vinyl then these transferred to the vinyl. I think I need to rethink my methods. I hinge from the centre to get it straight and one end stuck down, then work from that end. Oh and I really hate fitting over multiple curves and dented panels!!

Hopefully I’ll work this out with your help!

Adam

[Shane Drew]

sounds like an adhesion problem Adam.

You should pull the tape at 45 deg to the surface, and I try and pull it across the surface, not ‘away’ from the surface.

It is a good idea to let the vinyl settle too before removing the app tape. 3M suggest 10 to 15 minutes if possible.

751c is not super adhesive compared to other Oracal products, but I’ve never had problem like you describe.

Also, remember app tape is called tranfer tape, and as such, will transfer anything to the sign surface. If you have bubbles in the app tape, you will have bubble in the sign surface.

Can’t imagine why the removal of the app tape caused this issue tho.

Sorry mate

[Adam McGuire]

I’ll go and give that a try in a little while Shane, I’ve always pulled the tape flat along the surface as this seems to work well with simple text. Basically I’m self taught with pointers from people on these boards, so really my technique could be wrong! I’d like to watch another member doing a van or car to try to find out where I’m going wrong! That might iron out a few problems!!

Adam

[Darren Mooney]

Cheers Peter, I must admit my technique is a puller but that will change now… I was thinking karate kid wax on wax off style! haven’t had too much prob with it mind, I just seemed happiest when I was on the pull! (sorry!) heheh

[Lorraine Clinch]

quote Adam McGuire:

That might iron out a few problems!!

Adam

No no no Adam, a hot iron on vinyl will only add to your problems (!) :lol1: 😎

[Adam McGuire]

I found that out to my detriment! I’ll try lowering the heat! Or maybe switching to steam! 😀

I never did get chance to check my methods 🙁 plus I’m working away in Wellingborough again (yawn! – I’m bored already!) so I won’t be able to test until the weekend.

I’ll make sure I stay on the boards though!

Adam

[Brian Little]

quote Peter Normington:

the demo was more to show the tecnique of how I hold and move the sqeegee, mainly for the benefit of begginers, who quite often PULL the leading edge over the material rather than PUSHING, its a common mistake for a lot of people, and does encourage bubbles.

I tape or hinge as the job dictates, For a flood coat I like to have an overlap, then trim back to size.

Peter

…Peter is that your hands ….they look like a pair of young hands 😀 :lol1: :lol1:

[Shane Drew]

I’m hoping they were not Lynns, Brian 😳

[Brian Little]

well i did look at them Shane and decided that they clearly werent hairy enough….but the thought did cross my mind :lol1: :lol1:

[Shane Drew]

quote Brian Little:

well i did look at them Shane and decided that they clearly werent hairy enough….but the thought did cross my mind :lol1: :lol1:

:lol1: :lol1: nutter!

[Brian Little]

its a case of …."wait till mom gets home " shane …..im the big hero just now….wait till lynn comes on line ….hell have no fury like a woman scorn !! 😀 😀

[Lynn Normington]

Brian you will notice how lovely and hairless my hands are when they are around your neck squeezing the life out you

Lynn 😀 😀 😀

[Nicola McIntosh]

quote Lynn:

Brian you will notice how lovely and hairless my hands are when they are around your neck squeezing the life out you

:lol1: :lol1: :lol1:

nik

[Brian Little]

:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: ibased it on the fact that you have a good sense of humour lynn ….which im sure you do ….dont ya 😀 😀 😀

[Lynn Normington]

course I do Brian 😎

Lynn

[Brian Little]

:lol1: :lol1:

[Shane Drew]

quote Brian Little:

:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: ibased it on the fact that you have a good sense of humour lynn ….which im sure you do ….dont ya 😀 😀 😀

talk about smoooooth Brian :lol1: got yourself out of hot water there mate, you are as cool as a beer drinker at a breezer tasting mate! 😉

[Brian Little]

yep a hint of smooth ….with a bit of a ruf leading edge thats me :lol1: :lol1:

[Steve Kane]

We are not claiming to be vinyl specialists, but we do lots of
edge lit signs with large areas of flooded vinyl
and we have to be allergic to all forms of dust
and bubbles (as illuminating a bubble on an edge-lit sign
is a total no-no or an unsaleable item)…

Our basic approach to applying "bubble-free"
vinyl – which most may know of or think "obvious"…

——————————–

1. Try to maintain a Clean WorkShop e.g. "Dust Free"…

2. Clean your panels properly, preferably with an antistatic cleaner.

3. If possible in your workshop – spray compressed air
over panel in one direction just before applying vinyl.
If no compressed air flood-clean your panel with your application
fluid – then squeggee off before applying to again to vinyl.

NO DUST = NO BUBBLES…

then…

YOUR WET APPLICATION / FLUID SHOULD DO THE REST:

3. We use a good quality vinyl application fluid and apply this
to the vinyl and lightly on the panel. The application fluid
we prefer is not Available in UK but:

1/3 a cap of Johnsons baby shampoo per litre of water,
we also find is a v. good cheap "homebrew".

4. Use a Felt and/or Rubber-Blade-Squeegee,
to squeeze the watery-soap-fluid. IKEA had
a super-decent one for silly money…

5. Let dry.

Have a drink and observe the results..

———–

MOD EDIT (no advertising please). admin@uksignboards.com

[Theo]

Adam… I have had the same problems as you but with Oracal 551. I am using medium tack transferite to apply with. When i smooth i out and feel it, it looks ok but as i start pulling the app tape off all these small little bubbles and imperfections start to appear. Maybe the app tape is stretching the vinyl as we pull the app tape off.

I must admit i have never waited 10-15 min before remving app tape so maybe i will give that a try and see what happens. I am starting to think that Oracal is a very fussy viny.. 😕

[John Childs]

quote Theo:

I am starting to think that Oracal is a very fussy viny.. 😕

It’s not really a fussy vinyl Theo. It’s just that it has a lower initial tack than some other materials. This can be an advantage in some circumstances and doesn’t affect ultimate adhesion.

[Shane Drew]

quote John Childs:

quote Theo:

I am starting to think that Oracal is a very fussy viny.. 😕

It’s not really a fussy vinyl Theo. It’s just that it has a lower initial tack than some other materials. This can be an advantage in some circumstances and doesn’t affect ultimate adhesion.

I agree with John. I use Oracal almost exclusively Theo. I don’t have the problem mentioned, but my style is to press hard when I squeegee, and I don’t remove the app tape immediately.

May be the reason I suppose, but I wouldn’t count on it 🙄 😛

[Tony Day]

I personally use R series conform application tape
I dont have a problem with bubbles unless i do a stroke wrong
I use the infamous "golden squeegee"
I only use felt for wet applications where i don’t want to scratch the vinyl or digital prints where i don’t want to damage the print.
Dust it the big key.
I mainly use "speed presses" now
I suggest everyone get these.
They save alot of money and greatly increase speed.
Ditch the mask.
Except for RTAs and other misc. jobs
speed presses are the way to go. Dust plays more of a factor but just keep your shop clean. And make sure you work fast to prevent dust from catching on the vinyl after you remove the backer
Any other bubbles you get…Take an xacto…poke it… and use your thumb or a felt squeegee to push the air out.

Tony

[Shane Drew]

quote Tony Day:

I personally use R series conform application tape
I dont have a problem with bubbles unless i do a stroke wrong
I use the infamous “golden squeegee”
I only use felt for wet applications where i don’t want to scratch the vinyl or digital prints where i don’t want to damage the print.
Dust it the big key.
I mainly use “speed presses” now
I suggest everyone get these.
They save alot of money and greatly increase speed.
Ditch the mask.
Except for RTAs and other misc. jobs
speed presses are the way to go. Dust plays more of a factor but just keep your shop clean. And make sure you work fast to prevent dust from catching on the vinyl after you remove the backer
Any other bubbles you get…Take an xacto…poke it… and use your thumb or a felt squeegee to push the air out.

Tony

Speed presses look great, but we can’t get them here. Looked at that a year or so ago. Don’t fully understand how they work, but I love the positioning ability the best.

Cheers

[Lynn Normington]

have not used 551 oracle just 751 it’s not that fussy, gives me no probs weeds and applys perfectly, I alway apply dry have no problems with bubbles apart from black when it’s very hot, or any colour when surface not cleaned properly so alway’s clean properly 🙄
don’t think I’ve seen a speed press

Lynn

[Shane Drew]

quote Lynn:

have not used 551 oracle just 751 it’s not that fussy, gives me no probs weeds and applys perfectly, I alway apply dry have no problems with bubbles apart from black when it’s very hot, or any colour when surface not cleaned properly so alway’s clean properly 🙄
don’t think I’ve seen a speed press

Lynn

check this out lynn. This is the one I was trying to buy here http://www.speedpress.com/products.asp?id=16

[Tony Day]

From experience. They can bug you at times. But overall they are absolutely great. You dont have to deal with buying alot of app tape. And it speeds the production process up significantly.

______________________________________________

Honestly i would not buy the speed presses though.
They charge in the range of 300 bucks for the 2 presses.
Take some MDO. Buy some of the clear application tape.
Medium tact.
Buy some concentrated cleaning liquid. The stuff your supposed to mix with water to make a soapy cleaner.
Just cut the MDO into 2 inch strips and form a rectangle with screws.
Make one about 40 inches and one about 72-80 inches for banner type laydowns.
When the application tape stretched across the MDO gets dusty and has aluminum shards and what not stuck to it. Use the cleaner and wipe it down. Then wrap a paper towel around a squeegee and wipe it again.
It wont kill the adhesive and youll be good to go for another 3 weeks to a month.

So have fun with the idea. It works fantasic.
if you have any questions feel free to ask.

[Theo]

Speed presses look great, but we can’t get them here. Looked at that a year or so ago. Don’t fully understand how they work, but I love the positioning ability the best.

Cheers[/quote]

Shane, apparently there is a company called Tecnolux who are the authorised distributors within australia for the speedpress system

[Shane Drew]

thanks Theo. I emailed speedpress but thet never returned my enquiry.

I like Tonys suggestion, but don’t have time to scratch at the moment, so I’ll have to try it later