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how do i start the Grafiwrap Lamination proceedure?
Afternoon all, havent posted for a while but I was after some advice if anyone can help.
I am attempting a van wrap using grafiwrap, I am printing and fitting but someone else is going to overlaminate the job for me and he asked if the rollers need to be heated when using grafiwrap?
Any advice would be appreciated.cheers
Sean -
39 Replies
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we find the very thin rap lam best cool.
our laminator is room temp or 40 deg but take a while to warm up and cool down so we manually control it to around 25 deg seams to work best.
easyer cooler than hotter.chris
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thanks for that i’ll pass the info on
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Sean I guess the laminate was supplied by ourselves as the two part wrapping film, if so then the bottom roller needs to set to 90 degrees temp.
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90 nigel? really? i never used the product but that took me by surprise, i wonder if i could get my heaters that high.
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never told me that when i bought the stuff or laminator which has a heated top roller only.
chris
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might as well use the hot air gun as a laminator..
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I’m sure that is the temp, but Joe is our man for the Grafiwrap, sooooo I could be wrong, I will check with him tomorrow.
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I have double checked the temp settings and I was correct, makes a change I know :lol1:
Regards
Nigel -
thanks for that its being laminated in the morning, although the people laminating were surprised at the temperature settings.
cheers again
Sean -
The temperature stated is basically there for one reason, it chemically alters the adhesive in a way that it acts like a removable vinyl adhesive, by that I mean it will leave very little glue residue behind when the wrap is removed.
If the lamination was done at a lower temperature then there would be more glue residue left behind upon removal as it is a cast vinyl with a permanent acrylic adhesive.
After a conversation today with a member from here, I would be certain that quite a few users are not laminating at the said temperature purely because they are unaware of this laminating guide regarding Grafiwrap, and as far as I’m aware there have been no problems regarding using the material after laminating, well apart from when the material has had a fault.
Regards
Nigel -
thanks for that it seems to make sense, hopefully in a few years when it is removed it will behave as it should and i won’t be peeling it off for days on end!!
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Like most vinyls Sean, when the time comes to remove then it will be a heat gun or hairdryer (whatever a hairdryer is 😛 ) and just peel away.
Joe Bartnicki at our gaff is the bloke to talk to if you need in-depth answers regarding Grafiwrap.
Regards
Nigel -
Nigel not technical my self but how does that leave us we only have a cold laminator 🙄
Lynn
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I’m also keen for an answer to Lynns question. We only have a cold laminator and grafiwrap was going to be my first choice when we start to get involed in wraps in the new year. We are doing part wraps on our own vans first for testing.
G
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as they never came back to me the instructions are quite clear NOW if you want the rap system to do as it says on the tin as it were. you have to have a laminator that does 90 deg on the btm roller.
chris
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Sorry for the late reply, but I did have to go and seek the answer myself, otherwise I could have given false info.
When using Grafiwrap, the reason to laminate with the heated bottom roller set to 90 degrees temperature is so the adhesive on the cast vinyl gets "cooked", basically it alters the adhesive to give it a semi removable type property.
It allows you to lift and reposition the wrap vinyl if the initial contact is slightly off, it does help when you consider doing the side of a car in one hit would mean handling say 3mtr x 1370mm piece of vinyl.
Now if you can only laminate cold then the adhesive will retain the bite and instant grip a 10yr permanent adhesive normally has, so initial contact with the vehicle would require more care as the adhesive would readily grip the bodywork.
I think thats about it.
Regards
Nigel -
Some thoughts………
Are we talking Centigrade of Farenheit? I’m looking for the manual for our laminator to see what the numbers on the dial mean. Although, as it goes up to 250, I guess I’m in Farenheit. 🙂
I would always recommend buying a heated laminator, if for no other reason that colours seem more vibrant when laminated hot.
We use Graphiwrap, in fact it’s our weapon of choice. We have laminated it hot and cold but never had a failure. Having read Nigel’s explanation, I’m going to experiment with the initial tack when I get a minute.
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That would be 90 degrees centigrade John.
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quote Nigel Pugh – Grafityp:That would be 90 degrees centigrade John.
About the ideal temperature for a cup of tea then. I must be able to integrate those two jobs. 😀
Seriously, I suspected the 90 would be centigrade because that would tie in with my farenheit laminator going up to 250 degrees.
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What is the point of having the bottom roller heated, the heat has to go through the backing paper and the vinyl being laminated before it gets to the laminate. Our laminator has a heated top roller so it heats the laminate as it pulls off the roll.
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quote Martin Oxenham:What is the point of having the bottom roller heated, the heat has to go through the backing paper and the vinyl being laminated before it gets to the laminate. Our laminator has a heated top roller so it heats the laminate as it pulls off the roll.Pay attention Martin 😀
the reason for the bottom applied heat is to "cure" the adhesive on the vinyl, not the laminate,
I am a bit confused as to why this was not explained to me when I did the wrapping course though?Bit late now, but I’m sure that if any of my work fails, or is hard to remove, then I can rely on grafityp to rectify the problem.
Peter
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quote Peter Normington:Bit late now, but I’m sure that if any of my work fails, or is hard to remove, then I can rely on grafityp to rectify the problem.
Well, maybe Peter.
I don’t think that you will get any failures, like I said above, we’ve never had one, but, as for the removal, maybe the onus is on us to satisfy ourselves that a product will do the job we ask of it and I will be the first to put my hands up and say that I had never read the spec sheet that Nigel posted the now disappeared link to.
Let’s be honest here. How would you know? When we do a job the last thing we think of is removal. Our prime concern is that it doesn’t come off, and removal is usually somebody else’s problem anyway. Some materials are more difficult to remove than others and, if we do get a difficult one, we don’t think to blame the lamination temperature, more the material make itself.
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peter have you tried yours yet. this temp thing does explain the problems i have had with the product.
having watched the grafityp fitters remove and refit a roof panel not a bit like with my stuff. perhaps my inexperience.
i bet the samples you used on the course were treat correctly making it easy for you to handle.
i would imagine that johns fitters are very experienced and just get on with it.i changed makes and all my problems disappeared but you get used to what you use, and if i have persevered may have cracked it.
i am very annoyed by it all, moan over
chris
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What material do you use now Chris? From the sound of it I’m not going to get away with grafiwrap and am keen to have an idea as an alternative. I’m also very keen to see what results you get from your tests John but I get the feeling that a high initial tack is going to make life very difficult with me, being inexperienced with wraps anyway.
Thanks
G
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Hi UK Signboards,
Just to put your minds at rest 90° to 100° C bottom roller lamination will cook the structure of the glue and make the application less aggressive, this certainly helps when applying at warm to hot conditions making the glue less aggressive.
Martin Oxenham…
Simple solution would be to firstly laminate the media then flip it over so that the application glue and backing sheet is facing your top roller should you wish to
heat the glue.Peter Normington…
Grafiwrap is fully removable whether the glue has been heated or not. When the wrapped vehicle comes to the end of its commercial life it is removed by preheating the removal area with a heat gun and the media is pulled away from the vehicle surface at 90°.
Contra to Nigel’s post the only time you will get a problem with glue residue is when the media has been laminated without the solvent having chance to escape from the printed surface thus trapping solvent between the laminate and the print, this results in the solvent pushing the glue off the printed media. Secondly, if a priming agent is used for those troublesome deep recesses.
This fact doesn’t just apply to GrafiWrap it applies to all manufacturers print media that has been laminated before the solvent has had time to gas off.If anyone else has any questions or would like to try a sample please contact me I would be more that pleased to send you a sample to practice with.
Please find an instruction manual attached. Enjoy
Kind regards
Joe -
I’ve spoken to my main man and he agrees that, although it hasn’t caused him any problems, Graphiwrap is a bit aggressive on the initial tack.
I’m printing some now, for a job that’s coming in on Friday, so I’ll cook this lot upside down and see what difference he says it makes.
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OK. Done the test.
Before we go off on one though, I should point out that we had no argument with Grafiwrap in the first place. Sure, the initial tack is a bit aggressive, but no more so than many other products on the market, and certainly not enough to give us any concern. We have previously applied it outside in the summer, in hot sunlight, and not had any problems with application.
On Wednesday we ran off our prints, left them for thirty hours, then laminated at 50 degrees in our usual way. Then we turned the print over and ran it though again at 100 degrees at quite a slow speed to make sure that the adhesive was thoroughly cooked.
The prints were applied this morning and the fitter says that they were noticeably more forgiving on initial tack, which made them easier and quicker to apply. Although he was happy fitting Grafiwrap before, he would prefer it all cooked in future.
Whatever anyone else says, we were always going to continue using Grapfiwrap because, one we have confidence in it and, two we think the thinner material gives a better finished appearance. Easier application is just a bonus to us, and easier removal will be a bonus for somebody else.
Just a final point about removal, even without cooking, Grafiwrap wasn’t that bad. We’ve done much worse, like ten hours stripping time per van on a 25% covered Vivaro with 3M Controltac. Grafiwrap is a dream in comparison.
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Thanks John, I’m awaiting some samples so will do a couple of tests myself but it’s very interesting to get info from your fitter who is obviously experienced.
I’ve also had some nightmare striping jobs and grafi would need to be pretty special to beat them!
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Hi all,
I have been reading this post with interest because in the new year sometime I am going to try my first wrap. I was going to use grafiwrap as I use them for most of my vinyl and bits n bobs but now i’m thinking without the heated laminator I may be making trouble for myself. Do any of the other systems require the vinyl to be heated in this way to cook them? Is the initial tack of grafiwrap much more than the other systems?Steve
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I just read in that PDF that it’s recommends NOT using Isopropanol 😮 I can understand the health risks as it smells really toxic but I thought this was one of the industry standards for prepping surfaces 😕
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I think I must be missing something here… 😕
What we have here is one of the best two part wrapping systems on the market.
From reading some of the replies, I am gathering that an “added” benefit of using this product is that IFyou laminate your prints using heated rollers at the specified temp. it will reduce the initial tack of the vinyl making it more manageable when applying.
If you don’t have this option with your laminator, you just laminate as you would most other wraps.So again, as an “Added” bonus to using this wrap system over some other wrap vinyl’s, is the option to reduce initial tack by heating when laminating.
No disrespect meant here, but If this information "deters" the applicator from using the vinyl, then it is “their” inexperience to wrapping that is the problem, not the vinyl.
Take Mactac’s macfleet when that wrap just came out about 5 years ago i think. I used that and I had bother adjusting to it. It stuck fast on contact. Snapped in a cool room and removing it took for ever if you made a mistake. However, I persevered, found my feet and adjusted to working with it in the proper fashion… I now recommend using it for solid colour wrapping particularly deep recesses and the like. It really is a good vinyl and I have never had any reason to worry about a job once applied. My point here is that it was “my” inexperience of working with the film that was the problem. Not the vinyl.
Just for the record, macfleet also comes with different adhesion properties.Warren, 3M also stipulate not using Isopropanol when prepping for the application of their NEW wrap film.
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quote Robert Lambie:Warren, 3M also stipulate not using Isopropanol when prepping for the application of their NEW wrap film.
What is the best surface prep fluid to use then that can be used for all applications? I bought a large bottle of Isopropanol as I believed it was the preferred method/fluid for preping surfaces?
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i use industrial meths, i buy it in big drums. this is the clear stuff, not the purple stuff you find in B&Q.
i am not saying what i use is 100% fine, its just what i have always used and never have had any issues with it. ive also always considered isoprop as a very good option too… however, as i have been sent the new 3M recently, i was actually told not to use the isoprop. ill have to check and see what it is im being sent to use in its place. -
Hi Rob
It also says don’t use Meths to prep surface, it’s in the PDF posted above, Iso and meths is a no no 😕 This is what threw me as these are the 2 that I always thought were best, now I don’t know. I know they are fine as most people use them but now it seems like it is a no no for the new technology of vinyls coming out 😕
I don’t know much about wrapping (if anything as I’ve never even tried any at all) but it’s just what I read in the Grafityp Specs.
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I’m not understanding that it is an ‘added’ bonus Rob. The posts here indicate that it is how the material is meant to be used (as stipulated in the spec sheet) I’ve not tried it and am awaiting samples to have a go at a few things with it. Inexperience is the problem – I’ve never wrapped a vehicle before and as such would see it as a bad move to go with a vinyl that has a very high initial contact, am I missing something? Seems like a sensible choice to me – I don’t want to lose a massive full colour piece of material because I’ve chosen a material that doesn’t suit me and that I don’t have the equipment to use to it’s full potential.
Like I said I haven’t used it and am awaiting samples – since this thread started I’ve spoken to a few people and have a few things to try. I’m not discounting it but want to have some other options up my sleeve if I don’t get on with it.
As an add on, we don’t offer wraps as a service and aren’t going to any time soon – I actually don’t ever see us doing full wraps because I don’t think our customers really want to pay for it and most of the time I don’t think it’s needed. I’m looking to get to the stage of doing part wraps and huge logos quicker and more efficiently that we do at the minute.
Gavin
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Hi Gavin
Yes, if reducing the adhesives initial tack is a must, then following the spec 100% is the way to go. If you do NOT heat the vinyl, the tack will be just like using most other wraps/vinyl’s on the market today. So having the option in my view “is a bonus”.If you have never wrapped with any vinyl let alone this one, it is hard for me to put my point across without going round in circles. However, don’t take my word for it, look at Mr Child’s comment. This is by someone who’s staff have been regularly using it “Without Heating”
quote John Childs:Whatever anyone else says, we were always going to continue using Grapfiwrap because, one we have confidence in it and, two we think the thinner material gives a better finished appearance. Easier application is just a bonus to us.If adhesion assistance from the wrap itself is your problem, I would suggest trying Avery’s EZ-apply, but then again, you will pay twice the cost of Grafiwrap for the pleasure.
In a nut shell Gavin. all wrap vinyl’s have their pro’s and cons… Only experience will tell you that. -
Today it was -7 when I left the house… maybe we could use it on days like today and have hardly any adhesion 😀
Point taken Rob, and like I say I’m going to do a few tests. I’m not expecting this wrapping malarky to be easy so don’t want to make life any more difficult than it needs to be!
Looking forward to samples arriving, hopefully this week as I actually have some time before we break up for Christmas!
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Hi there we have a cold laminator so could i heat the grafiwrap with a heat gun as it goes through the lam???????
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no,
well yes you could, but it wouldnt do any good
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