help vinyl failure on outside of window

[Hugh Potter]

i’d bet he put it on wet without squeegying it properly, then his wipers wiped it off ! i certainly wouldnt be held accountable for this !

i think it would be very hard to wipe off vinyl stuck on clean glass dry, i dint think i’ve ever ‘degreased’ it either, even put on wet it is usually poperly stuck on within a few minutes, use somoe of the same vinyl yourself, and put it on glass, do both wet and dry and see what happens, i bet nothing !

[Dennis Van Der Lingen]

thx for the replie,
i asked him about wet application and he said no but isn’t sure,
(everything i make for him is merchandising so he sells it a second time)

the situation is a bit delicate as this particular client means 500m² of fullcolor banners, 400m² of stickers and over 2000 tshirts on a yearly basis.

he’s a bit ticked off by the email he got saying his mechandising is crap.

i have an appointment with him this wednesday for banners and i told him that i would take a sample of the material and applie it in front of him and that after 15 minutes he should take it off: showing him that our vinyl is not crap and won’t get wiped rained off without a fight.

i hope i’m dealing with this properly.
i thought of giving him an extra sticker for free but am afraid i will admitt guilt by doing so.

any pointers to give me.

[Robert Lambie]

as hugh says… if it was applied wet, there is your answer. even squeegeed till your knuckles hurt, it will come off if hit with the window wiper shortly after. just one of the many downsides of wet application, drying/curing time. wet application on glass is worse than wet app onto something like a vehicle body.

who is to blame? he is… you cant be responsible for HIS application. never mind him putting window wipers on right after.

how could it have been avoided? i would have applied the vinyls on the "inside" not outside. even inside ide have done it dry but that’s irrelevant. even if you apply the graphics to the outside dry, yes they will stay on. but a couple of months down the line you will have dulling or streaks rubbed into the graphics due to the wiper passing over them.

[Jill Marie Welsh]

I had virtually the same thing happen to me last winter.
I applied the graphics myself, (dry even!) to the back window of a mini van.
It was very cold outside, but I did it in a heated garage after letting the van warm up, and cleaning the window thoroughly.
I stuck it on, it looked great.
I advised the client not to use her back windshield wiper for a day or two.
Within a week she emailed me complaining that the stickers had all came off and that she wanted a free replacement.
I told her that we would wait for warmer weather just to be on the safe side.
I think what she did was immediately use the window wiper.
I’ll know next week when I re-do the damn thing for free.
I think your client stuck that sticker on wet with window cleaner, which damaged the adhesive.
Then used his wiper.
It’s up to you…I’d eat the job, stick it on myself, then see what happens.
He’s probably just like everybody else, trying to get something for nothing.
Good luck.
Love….Jill

[Dennis Van Der Lingen]

i know what you are saying robert but putting it on the inside means i cant print the yellow and then contourcut, i’de have to cut yellow and then white, layer it up (because he wants one sticker and not one for every color) this works well with a few stickers but the one posted is from an order of 1000 stickers, print cut whas the way to go to give the guy the price he wanted
(don’t you just love it when they order so much they can decide the price) <=sarcasme

[Dennis Van Der Lingen]

the guy did mention the used "instanet" (windowcleaner)
if this indeed damages the adhesive, is there anyway to prove it?
or is this again seeing is believing?

[David Rowland]

Here is the spec sheet of Imageperect 3500

Am I right in thinking that this is a removable vinyl? Short term etc

[John Childs]

I wouldn’t fit vinyl of any type in the arc of the wipers. It’s going to start lifting at the corners sooner or later.

[Shane Drew]

I think the advise here is good.

I’d clarify your warranty when selling window decals.

1) Not to be put in wiper blade area.
2) Do not apply wet
3) Final polish the window with water before fitting
4) you take no reponsibility with the fitting.

You can’t be held responsible for this, wether your client is a good one or not.

I’d suggest the client did it wet, I wouldn’t believe otherwise.

I’d be using a cast material for the best adhesion. It is the best material to cop wiper abuse (thinnest and usually best solvent based glue)

I’d be advising your client to leave for 2 days of sunshine at least, not 15 minutes. You need a bit of heat to activate the glue for maximum adhesion.

I don’t know the material, but wouldn’t mind betting it is probably a water based adhesive, which will the the start of your problem.

Cheers.

[Shane Drew]

Just read Daves link.

Discovered it is an ultramark product. 🙄

Had no end of problems with this product in the past. I don’t use it anymore.

No matter what spandex ‘spin’ it as, it is a promotional grade material at best, with low (they say medium 🙄 ) adhesion. It has a shrinkage rate outside that is excessive in direct heat (from personal experience)

I’d suggest it is the wrong product for this use.

I’d be using 751 or 851 from Oracal. If you can’t justify a cast, at least use a good quality polymeric.

Monomeric is short term for an application like this.

Hope that helps

[Peter Shaw]

From the pictures you can see the vinyl is not torn and has been cleanly lifted. This tells me that the wet application has not had time to dry and that the wipers were doing their job.

I agree with the consencsus – don’t put it in the wiper area and apply it dry.

Peter

[Dennis Van Der Lingen]

tx for everyone’s opinion,
as for applying in the wipers zone, i had many meetings with the client and the outcome of them was:

merchandising in the form of a sticker is:
not to be laminated (will fade earlier in the sun and has to be replaced more)

has to be on the outside of the window
(i told him that in the winter when the vinyl is frozen it can chip of due to the wipers and will then have to be replaced every winter)

there were more specifications that i won’t bother you with but the main idea of the client is to sell as many stickers as possible and preferably twice or three times to the same person (to sell even more)

discussion is solved and the client knows that bad application is to blame.
everything we do for him is short and one-time merchandising (aka cheap)

anyway, it’s all solved, and in order

[Checkers]

Here’s a copy of the instructions that I give to a client when he wishes to install graphics that I made for him…

Notice the line below the installation graphics, it reads…
"Checkers Custom Signs provides these installation instructions as a courtesy to it’s clients. However, we can not, in any way, warranty the performance of the materials or the results of your installation".

Cheers,

Checkers
a.k.a. Brian Born
Harrisburg, PA USA

[Dennis Van Der Lingen]

thanks,

i was considering such a thing.
it gives me an good idea on where to work from.