Help Needed: after print/cut/lam it keeps shrinking.

[Peter Dee]

Possibly too much pressure when laminating or incompatible materials?

[Jon Marshall]

Cutting too soon after printing?

[jacobhinson]

quote Peter Dee:

Possibly too much pressure when laminating or incompatible materials?

As in non matching laminate?

And Jon, how long should I leave it?

Thanks both,

J

[Phill Fenton]

What material are you using for the clear laminate?

[jacobhinson]

quote Phill Fenton:

What material are you using for the clear laminate?

Hi phil,

Not sure what the guys we outsource to. Attached is the data sheet for what we use, the vinyl is a 3m ij40-c from William smith

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Attachments:

[Phill Fenton]

I suspect the clear laminate you are currently using is the cause of the shrinkage. This is a monomeric vinyl which is prone to shrinkage. I would try a different laminate of similar spec to your print vinyl (i.e 5 year polymeric calendered vinyl).

[jacobhinson]

Thanks for that,

I’m currently buying off a local guy, do you know where I can pick up sandtex that is the correct grade?

[Chris Wool]

big fan of IJ40 but 3m priced it out of the market.
as said laminated the more likley cause you should always use similar or better quality laminate,, william smith offer 2 laminates for that material both 3m and as expensive as the ij40. one is printable one not.
when cutting through print is best to leave 24 hrs before laminating and cutting although we never did with ij40 and suffered no problems as you have.

[jacobhinson]

The only thing is, this was on a satin but we prefer a sand tex…. Do you get plymeric sandtex?

[Chris Wool]

http://www.cphgraphicsupplies.com.au/pd … _52_57.pdf

pro santex laminate can’t vouch for it but but it is polymeric not monomeric

ask them for workable samples

[Chris Wool]

oh and the pro has a solvent adhesive not water based if that could be part of the problem

[Robert Lambie]

why are you printing and laminating solid colours?

why not just cut a decent grade, solid colour vinyl in gloss or matt finish, with a controltac adhesive system?

if the surface finish is important you can still laminate it.

cheaper and quicker all round.

[jacobhinson]

Because that is a small selection of a range of around 300 other designs, we only print around 8 full colours, the rest are various different types of artwork

Thanks

J

[George Zerbino]

I use tons of IJ40 and IJ40-C, always laminated with either IJ40-114 or the 3M laminate (can’t remember the number), never a problem with shrinkage so it’s either not enough outgassing time or most probably the laminate you’re using.

[Stuart Taylor]

Think the problem is definately with the laminate – As it is a monomeric product (whereas the IJ40 is polymeric) it will be much more susceptible to shrinking than a stabilized polymeric product. As George states IJ40 is a very stable printing film and very unlikely to shrink when matched with a polymeric laminate – 3M match IJ40 and 40C with either the printable IJ40-114 (gloss) and IJ40-124 (matt) or non printable 8019 (gloss) and 8020 (matt) … the latter two give a more competitive solution as a kit.

I would also make sure that the print is fully outgassed before lamination as this can compound shrinkage even with a correctly matched solution.

[jacobhinson]

quote Stuart Taylor:

Think the problem is definately with the laminate – As it is a monomeric product (whereas the IJ40 is polymeric) it will be much more susceptible to shrinking than a stabilized polymeric product. As George states IJ40 is a very stable printing film and very unlikely to shrink when matched with a polymeric laminate – 3M match IJ40 and 40C with either the printable IJ40-114 (gloss) and IJ40-124 (matt) or non printable 8019 (gloss) and 8020 (matt) … the latter two give a more competitive solution as a kit.

I would also make sure that the print is fully outgassed before lamination as this can compound shrinkage even with a correctly matched solution.

Stuart – how long do you recommend to leave for outgassing and before cutting? The only thing is that 3M dont do a santex laminate….

Thanks

J

[Stuart Taylor]

Hi Jacob

Really depends on the printer and ink type

For example with Latex you have no retained solvents so you’re pretty much ready to go. With most solvents or eco solvents you would need to outgas for a minimum of 24 hours at room temperature and with good ventilation and airflow over the printed area – Many people consider just leaving the print rolled up on a core for 24 hours to be outgassing but unfotunately unless the print is able to breathe the solvents are still trapped whilst the roll is wound up ….. please note however that 24 hours is a minimum, depending on the image and amount of ink layed down (i.e. dark solid colours) i’ve seen people having to outgas for 48 or 72 hours before laminating. Always best to check with the printer and/or ink manufacturers guidelines on outgassing.