Help fitting sign to existing posts?

[Alan Drury]

I think I would have a word with someone like Ashby or Blackburns and see how much a blank ally sign would be complete with channel. It may not be worth doing your own.
Alan D

[Martin Pearson]

Channel will normally run the full length of the panel, how many runs of channel depends on size of sign.
Clips are cheap enough that I would replace, what’s the customer going to say if you put the nice new sign up with old fittings.

VHB will depend on brand, what brand are you using for this?? If it is 3m then you will also need the 3m cleaner and activator, as for applying I normally mark a line to follow and apply using a 50mm roller.

[David Hammond]

Cheers martin.

The sign is 1000 x 700mm. So I was thinking 2 channels. I will run it full length about 30mm from top and bottom.

Not sure what brand vhb it is. I know my cousin used it for a similar sign he did.

It’s like a foam double sided tape, with a plastic green removable liner if that is any help. 😕

Am I right that riveting composite weakens it?

[Martin Pearson]

Don’t put the channel to close to the top or the bottom of the panel, with the size you have I would probably place them about 100mm from top and bottom.

I don’t have a huge amount of experience with different types of tape but the VHB tapes I have used have not been foam based, only the general double sided tapes I have are foam based so I can’t comment further on the tape you have but the price of it should help. VHB tapes tend to be quite expensive compared to general purpose double sided tapes.

I don’t think riveting composite will actually weaken it as such but what you might have heard is that if you rivet using a counter sunk rivet then the rivet can pull out more easily because you have removed the skin on one side with the counter sink bit. I normally use a tape and rivet so it’s sort of belt and braces. Use counter sunk rivets and have never had a problem. If the sign was much bigger than yours or going up really high then I would use an aluminium panel rather than composite.

[David Hammond]

Sorry alan didn’t see your message when I replied.

I am using an off cut of composite and have a length of channel which is ideal. It’s what was left of the stock when I bought the business.

I might invest in a rivet gun and get some vhb, that I know will be upto the job.

Thanks for excellent advice once again 🙂

[Robert Lambie]

come down leaving a space of about 3 inch from top, same up from bottom.

VHB tape comes in various brands. some equal quality too 3M, but i only use 3M.

you are using a coated ACM and maybe even same in channel. some VHB’s a slightly different codes for certain applications.

VHB tapes can be usd in many instances, but always follow application by the book.

it sounds like you are maybe using a general all round VHB which i wouldnt advise using "on its own".
We use this on All our signage, but coupled by rivets. this is maybe where you ahev read the issue from before of the composite being weak. Because i often state this when making a post…

i prever to use VHB coupled with rivets on anything these days… some may cry "overkill"… but we supply allot of signage in remote loactions exposed to high winds. so this belt-n-braces approach makes sure i can sleep at night and the customer comes back for more.

where i can, i always use Aluminium. composite is always at hand though and we do use it. we use a 3-4 inch strip o VHB tape on our channel.
everywhere there is a rivet, there is VHB tape behind it spreading the load.

why?

well, once bitten twice shy and all that…
I put up signage some years back when ACM just came about.
fitted the sign channel on the rear and job was done.
some months later i was called back because signs had come down and could we replace. when i got there it "wasnt" anything to blame other than the use of ACM. basically, in this exposed location, the wind was pushing on the sign from the rear and had ripped the rivvets thru the soft face of the composite material. so basically, when i arrive the channel and clips were still in place. so where the rivets. but the sign face was 30 yrds up the road! :lol1:

in fairness we have seen signs in the same type places where similar damge was done to aluminium. but still… we should learn from our mistakes and supply the customer what he needs, rather than what we want to give him out of convenience.

as for the channel, i would use 3 rails on the rear of the sign at that depth.
i try to never go above 18 inches of seperation on channel and clip signs.

Blackburn metals (see toolbar) sell channel by the length as well as clips. but you must specify which size of pole you are clipping too.
Aalco, Macleans electrical etc all do it also…

clips will cost you in the region of 60p – £1.50 each.

remember, you maybe sitting here reading thinking, sh1t, the costs keep going up… but learn from the msitake. educate yourself by this job, even if at a loss… educate yourself from this job to now start selling channell and clip signage.

order more than needed, keep a bit of stock and open up your portfolio to offer more types of signage.

think of it this way…
your customer needs a post and panel sign. "you now can do it for him".
but you can also offer to do his vehicle, his road end sign, his factory fascia, a pavement sign and more… once you have your customer, no matter how small the job, do your best to maximise the sale by simply asking do you need this and that while i am here.

😉

[Martin Pearson]

Robert, would you really go for 3 rails on a sign this size?? It’s only a metre wide and at 700mm deep then if you place the rails 3" or 75 mm from top and bottom then the gap between rails is only just over your 18" limit or if you place the top & bottom rails 100mm from edge then it’s within your 18" limit :lol1:

[Robert Lambie]

:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: oh thanks martin… 😉

i had a metre "deep" in my head… due to the sign being 1000x7000mm

yes, you could well get away with the two rails mate. 😉

[Martin Pearson]

quote Robert Lambie:

:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: oh thanks martin… 😉

i had a metre “deep” in my head… due to the sign being 1000x7000mm

yes, you could well get away with the two rails mate. 😉

Robert, I don’t know what size boards you are stocking but they must be HUGE. 1 metre x 7 metre off cuts ?? How big are they to start with :lol1: 😉

[Robert Lambie]

:lol1: :lol1: :lol1:

i am digging myself a bigger hole here eh????

ok ill come clean. i’m on the vino… chill’axing. 😉

[David Hammond]

Cheers for the help guys.

I will put two channels, riveted and vhb with new clips.

this client was from a mail out I did. I sent out about 30 letters with flyers and got this clients call the next day!

I was using this as a learning curve as I haven’t done one, and they have already mentioned some more signs, and print jobs if this goes to plan!

I am slowly building a portfolio and will share some with you on here.

[Martin Pearson]

David, if you are relatively new to all this and you have thick skin then it is well worth putting something in the portfolio section for others to comment on. I say thick skinned only because some of the comments can be a bit blunt at times. However it is still constructive criticism not just people telling you it’s rubbish so you will learn a lot about design that way if you really want to.

Some of the members on the forum who started out not that many years ago are now doing some terrific work so it’s well worth getting involved as much as possible.

[David Hammond]

I will post some tomorrow.

Tbh I haven’t done much design myself. Much of my work has involved existing branding, just applied to signs.

I am open to criticism, as I have only been trading 6months, so been a big learning curve!

[David Hammond]

I’ve looked at blackburn metals.

I have some ‘Medium Rail’, which is what I am using on this sign.

I need to measure the diameter of the posts, but what kind of clips should I be looking for?

I am assuming Two Bolt, or one piece clips?

[David Hammond]

Job Done.

Thanks for the help guys.

I’ve put a pic up in the members portfolio section

http://www.uksignboards.com/viewtopic.php?p=404906#404906