Gelatin sizing?

[Jill Marie Welsh]

I have only water-gilded with gelatin capsules once, awhile back. Seems to me we melted the capsules and the distilled water in a little electric burner, then let it flow over the glass, and immediately applied the gold leaf with a gilder’s tip. You have to have your outline painted on the inside of the glass first (or silkscreened) and you try to get the gold just inside the areas where it needs to go. The rest is scraped off later with a razor blade. Then the whole thing gets backed up with Staz-On varnish. I think. It’s been years.
There is a handlettering forum by that name on the net, they talk about gilding quite a bit on there.
Love….Jill

[Mike Kenny]

as Jill Says!
Mix your size with distilled water
flood the area to be gilded and lay your loose leaf immediately.
areas outside the outline will clean off with water when you have backed up
cheers
mike

[Neil Davey]

A couple gelatin capsules is probably too many. You may have trouble cleaning your excess gold off after backing up and your gild may appear cloudy.

See what happens and next time just use 1 capsule or 1/2 of a capsule .

Neil

[Bob Gilliland]

Mike,

I’m with Neil; you may have some troubles removing the excess gold with that strong of a solution. It won’t be impossible, just much more difficult then otherwise needed. Depending on the design, this may or may not be much of an issue. Delicate, frail lines or small details can frequently be damaged, even if backed up multiple times, if having to be aggressive on removal of excess gold.

You didn’t solicit comment on this, but I’m going to mention it anyway. CLEAN THE GLASS! When you flood/brush your water size, if it doesn’t coat in a nice “sheet” form, or “splits” or otherwise diverts itself, you very likely have a contaminated spot or area (can be a simple speck or “larger” like a fingerprint). This could cause some consternation at a later point. Usually a smart idea to cut your loss at that point and clean the glass again. Some of the masters may disagree on the ranking or priority of each step in the process but I have been schooled to make sure the glass is clean. And then clean yet again just to make sure! Also, keep your gilders tip dry. Dave Smith has created an awesome tip that makes laying leaf much, much easier. 😉

[Michael Hartley]

Thanks Jill and guys. Since I’m doing this inside of a masked off design, it sounds to me like I need to stick with the oil sizing. I’ll keep this information on file, maybe useful on a different type of project. Thanks again, Mike

[Jill Marie Welsh]

Won’t using the oil size give you a matte finish?
Just wondering. Gilding is not my forté, I only know it from watching others who know what the heck they are doing!
😉

[Neil Davey]

Hi Mike, Jill’s right.

You’ll finish up with a matte gild….I’ve water gilded through a mask and it works fine.

Neil

[Michael Hartley]

Hey guys, and Jill. I thought maybe I ought to explain myself better as to what I’m doin’. I am actually gilding the design on the back side of some mirrors, where when you look at/into the mirror, you see the design inside of the mirror. That is why I was looking at the water gilding to maybe get a little clearer looking gild, when seeing it through the front. Although, my initial attempts have been pretty clear with the oil size, the major difference has been the leaf itself. I have used some imitation leaf, some Swift 23.5++, and some Thai leaf from e-bay. You probably don’t want to know which is the better looking. Here’s a pretty bad picture, I’l get some better ones, didn’t know mirrors were so hard to photo. Thanks Mike

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[Neil Davey]

Hi Mike, you have a very mottled finish on this gild due to the oil size not laying flat I guess, more than likely a little too thick, needs thinning.

With a water gild the gold will lay dead flat and will give a mirror appearance of it’s own.

http://www.uksignboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=32885&highlight=

Have a look at the link above and you may see what I mean.

Neil

[Michael Hartley]

Thanks Neil, that’s the reason I was thinking about the water gilding, but like I said, when I got the gelatin mixed up I didn’t have a clue what to do with it then. Now these mirrors, I can lay them down flat, or raise em up to any angle I want, but ya can’t do that with a window. How would one apply the water sizing to a vertical surface, doesn’t it just run down the window? Was that window you did , great job!, I take it that was gilded on the inside? I haven’t done a great deal of gilding, do ya still call it gilding when laying leaf on motorcycle parts?, but this is the first, where I have applied it basically backwards, wheres you are looking at the adhesive side of the leaf, instead on the top. I’m gonna keep playin’ with it. Thanks Mike

[Neil Davey]

Hi Mike, this may help you……..

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=4-eW6sxhli0

Yes, still called gilding when laying leaf on bikes, have you tried transfer leaf for this?

Neil

[John Singh]

Now that looks fantastic!
That looks a lot easier than than using a tip

Is he marketing these tips
Who’s supplying them?

[Neil Davey]

Hi John, they are fantastic, I use one, looks good too.

You can get them from:

http://www.goldleafsupplies.co.uk

Handovers also supply them.

Neil

[John Singh]

Cheers Neil

Handovers is just ten minutes away from me

‘I’m gonna get me one’ for sure

[Michael Hartley]

Hey Neil, I was just fixin’ to post that I had watched Dave Smiths video’s, and AhHa, that’s what I’m doing, is "Reverse Water Gilding on Glass", didn’t even know it. Always wondered what that was. Any chance someone sells those gilding tips in USA? I’ve got no problem ordering one from UK, but I didn’t see it listed on the goldleafsupplies website, or did I just overlook it?
I hope I’m not bothering ya’ll too much with some of my questions, I usually just jump in there and do it, and learn what works, and what doesn’t work, but with this gold leaf being as pricey as it is, I figured it may be prudent to ask a few questions first. And sometime this week, I’ll be ordering the Gold Leaf Teqhniques book. Thank You Masters, and Masterette!

[Bob Gilliland]

Angel Gilding Supplies; Smith Tip page, or call Sarah King at 1.866.341.3340

I’m not sure where you are located, but if you ever get a chance to see John Studden lay some leaf, DO IT! 😮 No Smith Tip required for that man! Billy Beckner, located towards this side of the land mass, can also lay loose leaf rather quickly (fun to watch him and Jeff Lang race).

[Jill Marie Welsh]

quote :

Billy Beckner, located towards this side of the land mass, can also lay loose leaf rather quickly (fun to watch him and Jeff Lang race)

I agree!
They make it look so darn easy.
Gotta love those sign guys from PA.