Frogjuice Trouble – Lam V/Camm prints by hand?

[Russ]

Hi Doyle,

Can not anwser the frog juice question have never used it. I can tell you that with most ( if not all ) quality digital media used for wrapping etc, there is a matching laminate. It can be gloss, matt, internal & external If I have not got my wires crossed.

After any print I leave it at least 24 hours to dry and if laminating by hand I use a matt vinyl and a liquid clear shield. I find when liquid laminating on matt media I can lay-off the liquid with a good quality brush after applying the area with a roller. This gives me a semi gloss shine and an almost faultless coverage. Maybe the laminate keys better to the matt vinyl I’am not sure but it works for me.

I must add that I have only used this on slightly moulded and flat areas and not technical vehicle wrapping

Regards Russ

[Rodney Gold]

Major problems with frog juice and some digital prints , go join the Roland Digital print forum http://www.rolanddga.com – you have to give em your machine serial no and see what others are using as liquid lams.
A pressure roller laminator is best. Vehicle wraps HAVE to be cold pressure lammed – with a premium lam that matches the vinyl (polymeric with polymeric etc) to give any sort of meaningful warrantee. DOES NOT just apply to the versacam but to all digital prints.
A decent laminator can generate good profits , problem is the good ones can cost as much as the printer.
Hand lamming is somewhat of a hit and miss affair as the glues on vinyls are pressure sensitive and might not adhere at places either leading to “silvering” or patchy output. You MUST match the lam to the vinyl.
If folk insist we liquid lam , we use Fleetguard/fleetclear – a Triangle product – not sure whether it’s available in your country.

[Chris Wool]

hi

juice type sprays etc on to solvent prints in my experience dont work it cost me a lot of hassle and money and the only redress i got from the makers was read the declaimer on the tin.

a laminate matching the vinyl used is the best way forward all but cast lams are easy to do by hand and when you get used to the realignment and cut you wont be disappointed again

chris

[drogers4]

Thanks for the advice. I just did a laminate with clear vinyl by hand this morning and it looks 100% better than the frogged prints. I will laminate by hand for now, but can anyone tell me the best kind of laminator to invest in? I was looking on ebay and I can get a decent sized cold laminator with the hand crank operation for cheap. Will this work for my prints?

I just do not have the funds available to purchase one of the hot/cold electric feed fancy laminators, as I saw the price on those are way up there.

Thanks again!

Doyle

[Phill Fenton]

This may be frowned on by some – but when I apply a clear laminate to any printing produced on my colorcamm I apply the clear vinyl wet using a weak soap solution.

If I’m doing a print and cut on a vehicle I include registration markers and cut the laminate and the print seperately putting them together on the vehicle using the registration markers to align the clear film over the top of the print. I’ve never had any problems using this method

[steve geary]

Hi Doyle,
I’ve been researching a little and as of now have settled on this company in Philadelphia. http://epsassociates.com/
I’ve just joined uksignboards and learning a lot so i may change my mind, i plan on investing in the printing and laminating equipment in the next year or so.
This company (EPS) as of now, has me leaning towards a mutoh falcon outdoor junior and a Daige quickmount 38″ Laminator. 14,000 for the printer and 1,350 for the laminator… comes to about 18,000 for everything with set up and training.
As I said, i may end up going with something else but EPS has been very helpful, and i enjoyed dealing with them.
I bought my cutter from signwarehouse.com and had no problems whatsoever.

hope this helps ….
steve

[drogers4]

Thanks for the info everyone.

Steve, I was also looking at the same laminator you are talking about and if I can’t snag one on ebay for a bargain, I will probably go the same route. I just hate the thought of spending $1,300 on such a simple piece of machinery, but I need it to get the job done right. I have made the quick realization that I want a laminator and would like to steer clear of the liquid lams if possible. After seeing the print flake off of the vinyl when I used the frog juice, I will never use it on a large print again.

Thanks!

[Stephen Sill]

Sure glad I read this thread – I’ve been using frogjuice with cut vinyl to good effect and I’m sure it’d only been a matter of time before I laid on a big panel and juiced it into oblivion <cry, cry> With my luck when the customer was standing at my shoulder! (:)

[Chris Wool]

frogjuce solvent prints and very low tack tape. when walked away from the van it looked fine 3 weeks later it looked like this.
frogjuce has its uses this aint it. the V place that sold me it said it would be perfect for this job when it went wrong they did not want to know.
With the most famous words in this industry “I have not heard of that before its a new one on me ” – ” send a sample ” etc.

cant attach a pic here

chris

[drogers4]

Chris, that’s really funny as that is the same line that they gave me when I called complaining. Then, they said it was the fact that I was using gloss vinyl, and that I should switch to matte finish, and the problem would go away. But if that is the case, I don’t want to use it at all.

Ssil, I would not advise using the frogjuice on anything large at all, after the trouble that I had. Maybe for small cheap stuff it is fine, but you just can’t go wrong with the film lams, the graphic is tough and looks great! I am ordering a 38″ daige laminator for $1300 and will consider it a wise investment. Good luck!

[Jon Stephens]

Hi drogers4

How have you got on with the laminator ?

We are looking for one to laminate all digital work, but also to mount onto foam and alu- board.

Jon

[D Major]

Hi Drogers4 – we recently bought a Versacamm 540V and a cold laminator. Delighted with the printer, not too keen on the laminator – it’s a GMP Excelam. The thing is, it’s very tricky to get the blank paper lined up correctly. Basically, you have the clear laminate vinyl going over the top of the graphic and underneath it you feed through blank paper: this is so no sticky laminate ever gets on to the rollers (definitely something to avoid!). If the blank paper crinkles, it will afect the laminate too.
One point to note: it takes ages to change the laminate roll, so from my limited experience with this machine, I wouldn’t dream of saying to a customer “you can have gloss or matt laminate” – I’d always suggest the one we’ve got loaded!

Good luck,
Dick