EDGE OR ROLAND – RECOMMENDATIONS PLEASE?

[Robert Lambie]

what sort of stuff are you looking to print just now, but more importantly in a year or so down the line?

[Rodney Gold]

We have a Roland , I suggest the Edge , I consider our Roland flaky and have replaced more heads than I want to count.
If you are doing EXTREMELY fine detail or text , the Roland is the machine to go for however it is really hopeless at bigger stuff than a4 or a5.
The Cost of print on a Roland is more than the cost on an edge , but I think you can get a Roland cheaper then an Edge?
If you dont have specific reasons for printing thermally , then a small inkjet print/cut machine is by far the better option.

[Kevin.Beck]

I sold my PC600 and bought an Edge for all the reasons Rodneys mentioned.

I lost 2 orders because the edge wouldn`t print fine text.

but gained so many more because the cost of production came down on large decals.

The only down side of the edge is the contor cutting registration problems, I find with small decals printed over a large length, the cut sometimes catches up with the decal and sometimes even cuts into the decal.

I bought a suma with opus, and now use that for the smaller decals with no problems.

[drogers4]

I’ve never owned one, but from conversations with shops that use the edge, they have noted that the speed of the machine is really slow, as you must change ribbons on the machine for each color used (I think?) Not to mention the need for a seperate plotter. Also print size is limited to 11.5″ wide, but the prints do seem really tough, even right out of the machine, unlike roland.

I just went throught the same dilemma in choosing between the machines, it took me 2 months to decide, but went with the roland because of the wider format, integrated cutter, wide selection of media, and low running costs (yet to see this, still on first set of inks). Money can surely be made with either machine, but remember that the gerber has been around for a while and has already proven itself a reliable machine, and the rolands have only been around for a couple years (as far as I know). Good luck!

Doyle

[Rodney Gold]

I think you must be talking about a Roland inkjet – the PC60/600 uses thermal ribbons

[valegraphics]

THANK’S ALL FOR YOUR ADVICE LOOKS LIKE I’LL BE LOOKING FOR AN EDGE THEN. ANY ADVICE FOR S/WARE. OMEGA , SIGNLAB , ????? ONLY WANTING TO USE IT FOR SMALLISH STUFF FOR NOW. THEN MAYBE PROGRESS TO A CADET. I WAS CONSIDERING A CADET BUT HAVE BEEN PUT OFF SLIGHTLY BY LABOUR TIME MENTIONED, AND HUGE LEARNING CURVE
CHEERS ALL
MATT

[Marekdlux]

I think they (edge) only run off of Composer…I am probably wrong though. Also someone mentioned the speed. Yes, you do have to change the foils for every color (usually 4 color) and the maximum print size is 11.8″.
I learned on Gerber Omega and I like it. I am biased though having not used other programs.
-Marek

[Peter Normington]

I run an edge 2.
I have always used signlab, I tried omega that came with the edge, and did not really get on with it. Signlab didnt support the edge at the time, as soon as they did I switched back to signlab, version 7 has a much better rip than 6.
I havnt had any registration problems as mentioned above, I Have an envision plotter, dont know if this makes a difference though.
The material choice with the edge is huge from reflective to label stock; Also you can go for the metalic and white foils.
There are other suppliers of foils other than Spandex, and they can be a lot cheaper than original. Print One are one supplier, for example, the offer refills for the cartridges
Peter

[Lynn Normington]

becky said the edge doesn’t do fine text we have never had a promblem and we do some titchy labels, has anyone else had the same problem as becky?

Lynn

[Marekdlux]

I think the max dpi or lpi is 300 on the edge. I guess depending on how small your text is this could be a problem. For the work we do here it isn’t an issue. If I am doing small black text I just make sure to use a “spot” color instead of cmyk.
-Marek

[Marekdlux]

quote Peter Normington:

I havnt had any registration problems as mentioned above, I Have an envision plotter, dont know if this makes a difference though.

We have a GSx. We have the problem with registration. I just make sure to keep my runs of stickers/decals small. If I can, I overprint the graphic so even if it is off a little it won’t show.
-Marek

[Peter Normington]

300×600 on the edge2 I always use a spot for text anyway, I try not to use cymk, unless its for a photo, there are many ways to get good effects using tints and duotones etc.
Peter

[Peter Normington]

as becky has said, changing to the summa for cutting cured the reg problems, so its not the printer but the plotter that is the problem,
I regularly do long runs of labels (5m) at a time and the first and last labels are identical.
Peter

[drogers4]

didn’t realize we were talking about the PC60/600, in that case, I know nothing, sorry 😳

[valegraphics]

HI AGAIN
DON’T GRAPHTEC DO A PRINTER? I HAVE A GRAPHTEC CUTTER AND THE QUALITY IS GREAT. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT ROLAND+LAMINATOR. JUST THINKING ALOUD. I WANT TO GO FORWARD BUT NOT SURE WHICH DIRECTION ? ANY SUGGESTIONS PEOPLE ?

[Lynn Normington]

Matt please don’t keep shouting or do you need a new keyboard 🙄

Lynn

[valegraphics]

Sorry, Habit ?

[Rodney Gold]

What is your specific reason for wanting a thermal print solution for what you want to do. Unless you have a very specific application , I would not at all recommend this route.

[Peter Shaw]

You mentioned the learning curve on a Cadet. Very wise to consider this. But what about the learning curve on the Edge? Also consider that the Edge is a labour intensive machine. Each colour requires intervention as does cutting.

Peter

[valegraphics]

Rodney ,
I’m currently doing probably 80% vehicles at present. Cutting is great but sometimes it’s just not enough for what the customer wants. Also i want to take a step up. As i said previously i’m working on sign wizard pro. Again great for cutting but limited. Got corel but i find it complex at times. Is there any books to study maybe? So what’s the best s/ware for my needs. I dont need a large machine at present so edge seemed best bet. But ive seen lots of s/hand machines through a company called flynn signs. Havent made any concrete descitions yet. Still looking for lots of advice .
Cheers
Matt

[Rodney Gold]

I dont want to turn this into a thermal vs inkjet thread , but will tell you we run thermal and inkjet , and If I could give up thermal (We use it for legacy customers who want small badges and stuff with gold print or for very small runs where no complex colours are required) I would do so in a heartbeat. All the thermal systems cost a ton more than inkjets to run and one cannot be competitive with larger graphics.

They are generally more durable than inkjet , but car graphics HAVE to be protected no matter what system you use. Im probably gonna get flamed for this , but my advice is to stay away from thermal alltogether for what you intend. Colour printing and cutting is actually quite radically different to just cutting , Corel works well for this and so does some sort of raster editing package like Photoshop. Corel is the easiest.
It’s basically printing , and if you read net resources on advanced printing , or go to the printer mnfgrs sites likel Epson or Canon will find some good tutorials on printing which will apply and are the basics to digital larger format printing , your cutting experience will be fine for the cut applications of print and cut or just cut.

[Dennis Van Der Lingen]

i have an edge.

it works great, you just have to get to know the thing, what it can and cannot do. the omega software is good butt i only hate the fact that it always shows up so bad on screen (i’m used to corel). never had any cut problems though (at least none we could not fix).

even in the long run: i often do print/cuts ranging from 5 to 50 meters.
i have job coming up for about 70 meters now: 15 000 pieces.
the fine lines are not that much a problem butt!!!!!!!! you do have to change the settings to the darkest, that way i can print lines of 1 point width and text as smal as 1.5 mm height( even 1 if you use arial black)

all in all i use the edge nearly only for labels (where spot and mettalic colours are used mostley)

hope i’ve been of some help

greets

Dennis

[valegraphics]

Thank’s a lot. I seem to be getting both sides of the story here. Good to know pros and cons eh? This is fantastic, advice from time served pro’s

Thank’s again

[Paul Franklin]

We also use an Edge II and have been very pleased with the results it has given us for quite some time now.
Now we are finding ourselves getting into larger prints so will need to upgrade to a wide format printer, but will still keep the Edge for stickers and a great deal more besides. Running it with Omega 1.56 at the mo which is the big let down at the moment. As we use Signlab 7 for our plotter and a lot of design/layout work would like to see how the Edge plug ins for Signlab can improve our functionality. Peter?

[Stephen Benson]

Baship: I recommend a trial of SignLab P&C with thermal module for your Edge. Ask your dealer for a week trial, they should accomodate as they can either give you a software time trial (I think this is possible!) or loan you a dealer dongle. You’ll be surprised.

[Peter Normington]

I would reccomend using signlab with the edge, I have always used signlab and couldnt get on with the omega software, When cadlink started to support the edge i changed over and sold the omega stuff.
Its really down to what you are used to, if you know signlab stick to it.
It has some good print and cut features now includng contravision print on clear vinyl. and if reqired 2 sided. its also good for sequential numbering of labels etc. to name but a few.
Peter

[RobStone]

You might want to think carefully before buying a new Gerber Edge FX. It has a feature that prevents anything other than ribbon/foil bought from Spandex being used. With no alternatives, you are completely at the mercy of Spandex’s pricing.

One way of finding a second hand Edge 1 or Edge 2 is to ask your vinyl supplier if s/he knows of someone selling one. You’ll obviously need to run some test prints before committing to anything. Most importantly print a solid block of say Cobalt Blue across the whole width of the vinyl to make sure that there are no problems with the printhead.

Of course the Edge is not the best printer to produce a huge 4 colour prints. However it is extremely good at producing smaller spot colour signs and labels – and most signs are spot colour, rather than process colour. I would dispute the comment about the high price of the Edge output. You can now buy excellent alternative ribbons for the Edge which will give you the same durability etc. as the OEM ribbons from Spandex, at prices that mean the output cost for certain prints is lower than inkjet – it depends on the design and colour of the print. Anyway, the important thing is – will it make you money? Talk to other Edge owners – most will say “Absolutely!” One tip – the industrial labelling market is a relatively unexploited goldmine for Edge owners.

[Stephen Benson]

I think that you are being a little bit harsh regarding the FX Rob. Gerber decided to offer re-fillable ribbon cartridges because it’s a more environmentally friendly way of supplying ribbons. Also because they have seen their market shrinking because of the prolifferation of (1) Refillable 3rd party cartridges & (2) Ink Jets. Gerber aren’t dumb to think they can sell a system that is more expensive to use then others unless it offers real advantage. An issue with 3rd party foils in the past was consistency of quality and the fact that the heat settings in Omega were designed for Gerber foils only. Simply put. Many jobs done with 3rd party foils didn’t offer good outdoor durability or rub resistance. The FX is Gerbers answer to the cheaper, more environmentally friendly & more competively priced 3rd party foils. I understand the re-fillable system will offer savings of at least 20% over the old system. Also, I have a feeling that if the system is sufficiently successful (the jury is out) third party manufacturers will get in on the act. The RFID technology employed by the FX to see (a) what foil is inserted & (b) how much is left on the foil is smart but I’m guessing can easily be copied by the competing manufacturers.
I agree wholeheartedly that the Edge has it’s limits and is not right for huge 4 colour process work. In saying that some people have used it for large signage in the past and will do so again in the future. The strength of this system is (1) Proven reliability (2) Relatively easy to use (3) Many different materials to print, eg, static cling, magnetic, polyesters, coloured vinyls, polycarbonate, T-Shirt transfers. (5) Machine also prints excellent Whites & Metalised colours as well as apaque spot colours. (6) No Odour (Although it is a bit noisy 🙂 (7) Excellent Rub Resistance of print without lamination. (8) & Specific to the FX is network ready in that it is worked off a network cable, uses an I.P address, Side loading foils – less labour intensive as you’re not lifting it up and down all the time & Re-loadable cartridges.

With regard to Used Edges: Have you noticed that the guys selling used machines seem to want lots of money for them? – The reason for this is that in most cases these machines have made, and continue to make money for their owners. Sure, there are exceptions but some of these machines have been to the moon and back and their owners still want tons of money for them.
Better to buy either a new FX or a good used machine from Spandex with a warranty. In my opinion the Edge is one of the few machines out there that you can safely finance over 3 years and expect that it will be worth something at the end.

[valegraphics]

Good advice . Is that suit for real or were you on the way to a pilot’s fancy-dress party when the photo was taken????