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Does A Grenadier Need New Parts For EcoSol Max Inks??
Hi All,
I realise there are many topics already about ‘which’ inks are best etc etc. but just going one step on from that I am a little confused about the actual practicalities of changing.
We are running a Grenadier 54" print & cut on Citrosol inks. We have recently had our engineer out for various issues with print quality and the outcome is that we should change to Eco Sol Max inks.
Now we are not convinced that the change of inks will actually solve our current problems, and suspect that there may be some head issues too, but nonetheless we have decided Eco Sol will be a good move forward anyway, and deal with the other problems after.
What I don’t know though is, can we change the inks to Eco Sol ourselves by carrying out the full flush which I’ve read about on here, or does a Grenadier need the upgraded parts, and the conversion to be carried out by an engineer, which costs a fortune. Our printer is 3.5 years old.
I can’t grasp from the various posts, which category we fall into.
Fingers crossed here for ‘not’ the £2000 conversion!!
Any advice would be greatly appreciated as my head is spinning with all this.
Thanks
Steve -
11 Replies
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I would say you can just plug in and go. The Grenadier is set up for full solvent inks and you can’t get more aggressive inks than that. It sounds like a cop out by your supplier to change inks though as they will then wash their hands of the problem cos of the ink change.
I use Eco-sol max inks and have no complaints since they were introduced. -
I have a grenadier, have had it three and a half years now and never had anything more than wear and tear issues.
As mike has said, the grenadier, has already been retubed/modified to cope with even the most aggressive of inks on the market. that being the case, you have the option to change to virtually any type of ink suitable for this type of machine. "you do not need any conversion" you will need to buy flush cartridges… they only cost about £5 each. take out your ink carts, replace with the flush carts. run the machine on its full flush mode. (follow the instruction manual) everything is more or less automated and will basically clean all your existing ink from your system.
i would also clean your heads and all soiled areas of your machine and the like.
then its basically a case of pluging in your new carts, setting the system to pull through the inks… some print tests etc (fullowing the manual again) and your now converted…personally, i do not buy the fact the problems are due to the type of ink. as you say, its more than likely head damage or something like that.
citrisol, activasol etc are b&p products. i use activasol…
if it was the ink, ide expect these boards to be covered in complaints about citrisol… but they are not.
i have heard of folk coming on saying oh i have a problem, with my ink… im changing. then their problem is solved. this doesnt mean the ink WAS to blame. there is a great many reasons why issues arrive. 8/10 it is the user to blame. the machine maybe dirty, heads damaged, machine not being used enough and ink is solidifying and so on… in comes the new ink guy… changes the ink, "with his knowledge" gets everything running like new again… leaves you one happy customer. so you blame the ink? :lol1:I have always been of the opinion that if i had the choice between a Cadet or the Versacamm, ide still have the cadet. both the same price, both same machine. with the cadet you can change to any ink without a conversion. however, if you have a versacamm it will cost you about £1000 to have it retubed to run a more agressive ink. in other words, the cadet gives you the best of both worlds.
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rob could you kindly point me in the direction of £5 flush carts please.
chris
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I agree with Rob here. The reason I bought a Cadet instead of a Versacamm was because of the ability to run any type of ink. The same principle applies to the Grenadier.
If you are having print problems, then maybe the more aggressive ink has caused damage to the heads – in which case a change to a milder ink will not cure it.
My concern is, that long term – do the more aggressive inks cause damage that wouldn’t occur if using milder inks?
I would say – get the print problems resolved first on your existing ink. Then (if you think the ink is causing damage long term) switch over.
Don’t forget to report back your conclusions 😀
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I am sure we bought ours from PRINTONE Chris… only ever had them once because we never have done a full flush in the years we have had the machine..
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thanks rob
steve p
what problem are you having and why are you being told that a change of ink will cure it. a full ink change will cost a lot of dosh 12 carts plus flush.should you decide to change to ecosol max then probably a flush and go.
like mike i have been using roland max inks since introduced and they are just fine.
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I have just bought a set of flush carts from my supplier @ £40:00 each and for a G2 that’s twelve carts @ £480:00 + vat 👿 👿 👿
Peter
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Thanks for all the replies, we suspected our problems are not ink related!!
Our symptoms are the old nugget of banding, but really badly, and overspray particularly with black and Magenta, also badly.
What the engineer said was "there is an additive in CitroSol to provide the favourable odour, which causes damage to the printer parts, particularly the heads".
So he said the solution was to change to their ‘own’ fully solvent inks – not the Citrosol. Then deal with the head issue after we have corrected the inks.
After reading posts on here, we don’t want to change to their inks, but change to Eco Max inks, hence the question of what is involved.
We are happy now that we can make the change over ourselves with the full flush etc, however, we do anticipate the maintenance company may be reluctant – to say the least, to sort the heads out under the contract, if we don’t have their inks in.
I think we may have a battle on our hands, but we’ll have to see how it goes. I havent read any other posts on here, whereby someone else has been told by an engineer of this mystery element of Citrosol that damages parts!!!!
Will keep you posted and thanks again for your help.
Steve
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i dont think that the engineer should have said that as he has left his company wide open for you to claim for new inks and replacement of parts affected, as according to the engineer it aint your fault at all.
experience tells me you have to keep on top of them be a nuisance ring every day.chris
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Hi there, I have read your messages here and thought I would join up to hopefully help you. I have not seen your specific problem, but in truth it is entirely feasible to find it is an ink problem you have. The problem isn’t directly caused by the ink but is by the additives to help with the smell and also with the variations in the ink supply chain where there are batches that react with each other when in the machine. The first thing to try is a REPUTABLE third party ink or Roland’s Eco Sol MAX. I have seen many problems like this in my job, especially Activasol inks.
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Our Cadet is coming up to three years old and for the first couple of years we had nothing but trouble running full solvent inks and then Citrosol. We have had about Six head changes due to the problems you have (banding).
Your problem will not be cured until you change the heads.
We have now been using Eco Sol Max inks for months now and it is the longest the machine has worked without a problem.
Occasionally we get slight banding and a quick clean cures it.
I can’t see the point in using more agressive and dangerous inks when you still have to laminate any way.
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