Digital Printer On Ebay

[Colin Crow]

We have had one of these for a week or so now and I have to say the quality of print is fantastic. They print a waterbased ink which can be either dye based for internal work or pigment based which is waterproof. You have to have special coated media for best results and for proper long term outdoor use these should be overlaminated. Don’t pay too much though as there are some brilliant deals around from authorised dealers at the moment while they sell off stock of the 6 colour machines prior to release of the 12 colour version this Christmas. There are only 2 authorised distributors (Velmex and InfoTec) so contacting these will tell you who your nearest reseller is. Media is available from all the usual people (Europoint, hexis, McNaugton etc)

Hope this helps

Colin

[autosign]

What sort of stuff can you print on with one of these?

[Les Woods]

If its a W8200/8400 with pigment inks then you can print on external banners, canvas, flag material, photographic satin/gloss/matt, banner stand materials to name a few.

If its a pigmented ink machine it will be better for external work since its water resistant, but due to the composition of the pigment ink you’ll be limited to certain materials when compared to dye based inks.

[Vivienne Hennessy]

thats great lads thanks it good to hear someone has one already with good results. A budget machine is what im looking for at the moment so this will get the job done without spending too much as im still only starting . Great help.

[RobGF]

They’re neat and wonderful for high quality indoor prints. If you go pigmented and use the appropriate media you can do short-term outdoor. Your media will be more expensive and your outdoor products will not last nearly as long as something which is UV curable, ecosolvent, or solvent. I think they’re really a product designed to compete with the Epson 9xxx series to produce long lasting indoor prints.

[Vivienne Hennessy]

When you say short term outside material any guess on how long that would last for if laminated? a vehicle wrap for instance?What type of special outdoor material?

Also another question if u had the oppertunity to buy a 3rd hand roland soljet over one of these machines for double the price of it what way would be the best to go do ya reckon?

[RobGF]

I have no direct evidence of how long a outdoor print would last with this machine. On similar products with pigmented inks six months is often considered average. Additionally, a machine like this requires coated media which often inflates the cost a great deal. So, if you prepare an outdoor print know that it will cost more than your competitors and in all likelyhood it will last a fraction of the length of time.

If you want to do outdoor graphics I feel that you are doing yourself a disservice by not looking at ecosolvent, solvent, or thermal like Gerber and Summa do.

If you want to do really high quality indoor stuff (posters, art prints, trade show graphics) this might be a machine worth looking at.

[Colin Crow]

In reality all prints (water or solvent) should be laminated for outdoor use to achieve maximum UV resistance. The pigmented inks have been proved to last as long as solvent types for fade resistance in external situations given the same lamination.

As for pricing, the Canon stretch vinyl, which although not as thin as cast, is very flexible and very economical at around £4.50 M2. The inks seem more expensive but again last longer so not much disadvantage. Also you will need to take into account that you will not have to clean and flush as with solvents since blockages are almost non-existent even with the machine left for days between printing.

You will not get anywhere near the price of these Canons when looking at solvent printers and if you want 6 colours to match the quality then its a whole new ball game again.

[autosign]

So are solvent printers marketed to the sign industry well overpriced?

[RobGF]

I disagree strongly with Colin’s statements. The printer in question is a great little printer but it is not an outdoor printer. Right now this printer is being evaluated by independent labs to see how long it’s pigmented inks will last indoors. If Canon were truly marketing this as an outdoor printer these same independent labs would be issuing white papers on its outdoor performance on coated specalty media.

All outdoor prints from this machine will have to be printed on more expensive media and additionally will have to be laminated. That is not always the case with solvent systems and searching around this board will no doubt show many discussions by eco and solvent printer users have on this very topic. To give you an example, word on the street is that once in a blue moon sign guys put full colour images on coroplast. The fellow down the street will be able to do this with uncoated media and no lamination. The Canon user will need specialty media and lamination and in all likelyhood will still have a product which will not last as long and will have cost much, much more to produce.

I’m not trying to be a snot and I apoligize if it sounds that way but you need to know that this is not an outdoor printer.

Good luck.

[Colin Crow]

I think its very much a case of horses for courses. Where I am there are far too many trade suppliers chasing the solvent work to make this side pay at the moment. The Canon gives us the opportunity of bringing wide format to our existing customers (often at premium prices) so any marginal additional cost of materials is irrelevant. Add this to the £10,000 saving over a six-colour solvent printer (sorry – the 4-colour machines don’t cut it for me) and it really does stack up. Oh and did I mention it will print a M2 in around 2 minutes at maximum dpi?

As for longevity, I am sure there are a few fine art people on the forum that will know more about this subject but my understanding is that the solvent/water carrier has little or no bearing on the fading of a print, it is all down to the quality of the pigments/dye.

And while we are beating the drums for solvent printers, I have had two jobs quoted recently (a school & a chain of shops) where they specifically stipulated that solvent based inks (they didn’t mention ecosol) were not to be used for environmental reasons. Personally I think the days are numbered for full solvent machines and once the UV machines become cheaper/better quality they will be phased out or banned altogether.

There, that’s stirred a hornets nest!

[Les Woods]

Our Canon W8200PG (pigment inks) has produced stunning quality prints for the fine arts as well as for point of sale and external signage.

We laminate prints for external use with a crystal laminate which makes it easier to wipe down and also protects the print from scratches.

On another thread Peter and I spoke about how long a laminated digital print lasts and it really depends on the positioning as well as the media and inks – I have had a sign outside for some time now and it looks as good as the day it went up there. Ok, if I compare it with a print straight from the printer I may be surprised that its not as vibrant, but having not done that all I can say is that if I (as a pernickty print person) think its as good as it went up, then I’m sure my customers would be equally happy.

There was a Flaar report done where they compared the ink costs of several printers and so far the W8200 seems to come out most cost effective. We’re trying some compatible bulk inks out with ours shortly and it will be interesting to see how they fare in comparison with Canon’s own. I have a feeling UV stability will be not so good when used externally but should be ok for internal use.

The Canons media will be more expensive than that for a solvent printer which can make it less competitive in comparison. However, the quality (in my experience) is superior and a justification of the slightly higher price would be in selling to people who take quality over cost (such as artists and photographers etc) and for use in conferences and galleries etc where printed matter will be viewable within a few feet ahead rather than a few feet/metres ahead/above.

Ultimately, we all know our own machines best and not using a solvent printer personally, its hard for me to be accurate as I can only compare the print quality I have seen to that from other suppliers.

Just my 2p – hope it helps!

[David Rowland]

the problem with asking UKSB members about a printer on ebay, they will all visit and maybe put a bid in themselves!

UV will becoming cheap, only a matter of time and Solvent’s will struggle to compete.

[Vivienne Hennessy]

My brain is fried with these digi printers at the moment bit of information overload but all is good. As for USKB members bidding go for it and let me know how ye get on with the machine :lol1:

[Kenny Ramsey]

I recently had (might still have) the opportunity to buy a share in a Cannon iPF700 Cad plotter/printer.

http://www.cadshop.co.uk/Canon_iPF700_3 … ipf700.htm

What I need is a printer that will print full colour badges and stickers but also be capable of printing for outdoors (I would laminate).

Is there white and clear adhesive vinyl available to print onto this and could it print onto pvc banners too?

Many thanks
Kenny

[Colin Crow]

Firstly for external work you will need the pigmented version of this printer to ensure the ink is waterproof.

The vinyls that are suitable for inkjet printing tend to be thicker than normal vinyl used in cutters at around 100 microns. Add a laminate and this does make the whole thing thicker and less conformable. This works fine for large areas but I haven’t tried cutting labels yet as we tend to do these using our Edge.

There are quite a few white matt vinyls available and the Canon stretch vinyl is the best and cheapest I have tried so far. I have only found one gloss vinyl to date but if you are going to laminate this isn’t an issue.

I haven’t found a suitable clear vinyl, film or window cling yet as for some reason these are specified as dye only (but I have been told to try these anyway).

There are several scrim banner materials available again with a matt finish. They quote 6 months maximum life unlaminated but this is easily improved with a quick coat of liquid laminate like Frog Juice or similar.

[Kenny Ramsey]

Thanks Colin. I’ll look into it.