can you recomend a good 100micron monomeric film

[Stuart Taylor]

Hi Dane

Surprised you’re still getting the 3M IJ20 series – In the UK (and most of Europe) we only use the 3M IJ25 series which is 100 micron thick. It prints much better than 20 series product and is far more stable.

IJ25 series also has a better adhesive system than the earlier 20 series product, removes easily after a few months but has good adhesion so it doesn’t peel off by itself.

Check with your supplier to make sure they can get it – Let me know if you have problems and I can check with 3M if they supply that product to your region.

[DaneRead]

hi thanks for that.

this was exactly what i thought i did see the IJ25

we had a disturbing visit to the 3M stand at the sign africa in september.
I got to the stand and asked the 3M guy do they have a thicker monmeric film for our cheap applications on flat surfaces. We were finding the IJ 20 difficult to apply. as it was too soft.

he attacked us and said what do you mean. are you looking for the cheap and nasty stuff. He said if you want that we dont do it here type of attitude.

I said to him thats not the case we only use 3M vinyls. which is true. he then said sorry we only have the IJ 20 then the 40 then the 180 he then tried to sell us the new 380 which was not the question i asked for.

he could not understand that we needed a cheap vinyl in order to compete with our opposition.

our problem with 3M at the moment is they area big corporate and dont want to give you any helpful info. I understans that maybe our small order means very little to them but it all adds up in the end.

3M South africa only have IJ20 and IJ 180 as a regular stock item. I have had to specially order IJ 40 which has taken 4 months to arrive. My local supplier has about 4 rolls and we are ordering 4 months in advance. They are not prepared to stock it as it is a slow moving item on southafrica. i think this is due to 2 reasons. PRICE and SUPPORT.. avery and oracal have such a good support network nationwide.

IJ180 however is a fast moving product in south africa because control tac has developed such a good reputation and people are proud to use it. I am however proud to use ALL of 3Ms products.

i want to only use 3M but i have found it to be quite a challenge.

i found out about IJ25 about 2 weeks ago on the website. I immediately phoned my supplier who in turn looked at the 3M price list and he said it is not on the price list. He then phoned 3M and they said they dont know of the product?? he told them to check and they eventually did and they came back to say yes we can get it but it will take 3 -4 months and it wont become a regualr stock item. Hence my problem again.

this has led me to think i may have to change from 3M all together. I struggle using IJ 20 as the solvents attack it too aggressively. I love IJ 40 but do i want to forecast my production schedule 4 months in advance. No because what if i suddenly get a large job then i dont have enough IJ 40 in stock and then i have to wait 4 months.. this wont work. I then have to sacrifice and go for another make of material. Hence as you can see im looking at intercoat at the moment from my other post today. I dont like the MPI 2000 and i dont like the Orajet 3651.

The guy at 3M told me that if i forcast my production schedule for the year allowing a 20% growth then they can help we can order vinyl for the year.

How the hell do you do that. Im not a mathematician im i sign shop owner probebly the dumbest business on earth. Everything you do hss to be perfect or else 🙂 but we are not perfect so what do you do. (sorry getting of track there)

i wonder if maybe 3M SA will start to substitute IJ 20 for IJ 25. Is this the view in the UK??

[Stuart Taylor]

Dane

Sorry to hear of the problems you are having with 3M South Africa – I am shocked by the attitude of the guy – If you wish I am more than happy to take up your concerns with 3M as I have very good contacts in the UK, Europe and US divisions of 3M.

25 series was actually brought in to Europe to replace 20 series as an improved monomeric product with particular improvements on print quality, dimensional stability and adhesion levels. 20 series is no longer available in the UK as the 25 series replaced it over a 12 month phased period where individual users were switched (all are happy with the improved product)

I am sure that you (and 3M) will benefit from changing to the 25 series product – I am quite happy for you to use Europe and UK (and quote our company if you wish) as examples of the changeover and let me know how you get on.

I am happy to apply a little bit of internal pressure within 3M if required.

[Chris Wool]

typical never was told ij25 is available by my supplier sorry not william smith.
been using and still do use ij20 and understand your problem but just asked my supplier about it. the price is not competitive compared to ij20 to do the same job.
if left 24 hrs fitting is a lot more forgiving if its a rush they have ij40 and pay the extra.

chris

[DaneRead]

thanks very much for the offer.

i have spoken to my local supplier this morning, he is going to get pricing on the IJ-25. Lets see what it comes in at an i will take it from there.

ill let you know if some internal pressure from your side will be beneficial.

I dont want to get their backs up either for now. It could worsen the situation.

I am so happy with the way IJ 20 prints i would be interested at the quality IJ25 prints. This is why i am so reluctant to change from 3M as the films work so well with my printer. Also 3M have taken the effort to supply profiles for my RIP and printer combination. I printed on some other momomeric yesterday doing some tests and it was chalk and cheese. IJ20 wins hands down. Its just the fact the you have to leave it for so long until the solvents flash off and even then its still quite unstable. Eco Solvnet im sure will be a lot better. But as for the solvent ink of my printer it becomes impossible to even apply the smallest of decals if you dont let it dry.

[Jamie Wood]

Metamark MD-P is 100 micron, but I’m not sure if it is available with a grey
adhesive. We use loads of it, and it prints superbly (on a JV3).

Cheers,
Jamie.

[DaneRead]

i cant get metamark in south africa i have tried before.

the distibutor has stopped bringing it in due to lack of demand. It just seems like the product never took off.
i think it is due to the distributor not being on the ball and also the fact that the consumer never knew anything about the product. Only the big guns have stayed in.

Oracal
Avery
Mactac
3M

we do have some other brands coming in as well with good suppliers like:

Hexis
Intercoat
Ritrama

Funny also arlon has never got into africa. i believe its a great film.

[Stuart Taylor]

quote Chris Wool:

typical never was told ij25 is available by my supplier sorry not william smith.
been using and still do use ij20 and understand your problem but just asked my supplier about it. the price is not competitive compared to ij20 to do the same job.
if left 24 hrs fitting is a lot more forgiving if its a rush they have ij40 and pay the extra.

chris

Chris
It may be worth you double checking with your supplier as IJ20 was a 50yd roll (45.72m) and the IJ25 is a 50m roll – Yes it is still slightly more expensive (approx 5%) when you compare actual sq/linear metre rates but I believe the improved performance/print quality/improved adhesive etc is worth it.

We experienced quite a number of problems in the past with IJ20 (mainly adhesion problems) but have had virtually no issues since switching to the IJ25 and all of of customers that switched prefer it.

Dane
Which Printer and RIP do you use as 3M Europe have profiled most of the main platforms for the IJ25 series ?

[DaneRead]

that was my point.

3M do have profiles for my printet and RIP

im using an HP8000 with Flexi Sign Pro SAi RIP

Im currently using their IJ20, IJ40 & IJ180 profiles. They work perfectly.

Does the IJ25 come in 1500mm wide as well. That is the other point i like about 3M vinyls they come in 1500 wide.

[Stuart Taylor]

quote DaneRead:

that was my point.

3M do have profiles for my printet and RIP

im using an HP8000 with Flexi Sign Pro SAi RIP

Im currently using their IJ20, IJ40 & IJ180 profiles. They work perfectly.

Does the IJ25 come in 1500mm wide as well. That is the other point i like about 3M vinyls they come in 1500 wide.

Hi Dane

Yes the IJ25 does come in both 1372mm and 1524mm widths both at 50m lengths

Profiles for the HP8000 and FlexiSign Pro V8 available from the 3M website profile page (linked from our website if you don’t have the 3M web address)