Best suppliers for coated media for pigment inks?

[Chris Wool]

allprint grafityp i think still do it.

a lot of the photo papers are water resistant so would use them anyway for posters

edge sealing for out door stuff is a problem so for the menu i would use a clip frame and laminate both sides of the print.

[Warren Beard]

Hi George

Try link media supplied online, I have a pigment printer and have done many outdoor prints for signs and vehicles with no problems once i got over the learning curve 🙄 :lol1:

You can get outdoor vinyl which you do not have to seal the edges on even if printed to the edge, it will have to be laminated though as the ink does not "bite" in to the vinyl like solvent so can be easily scratched etc.

Give these guys a call and they will help you, they led me to all the right media and did vinyls, posters and even eyeletted banners on my pigment printer, I now have a solvent printer so my pigment printer is gathering dust 😕

cheers

Warren

[Martin Pearson]

Although Warren seems to have had some success using pigmented inks for outdoor work many other people have had problems with inks fading quickly so a bit more research might not be a bad idea before you go doing to much outdoor work.

I had a pigment printer myself which was never used for anything outdoor unless it was short term and like Warren says everything has to be laminated or the ink will come off very easily.

[Stephen Morriss]

I’ve done quite a bit of outdoor signs and stickers with my old HP before getting the Cadet and they’ve done fine.

I used a UV block laminate from Hexis and generally sealed over the edge, I’ve got one sign I see regularly on a pub, south facing, and it’s still OK 5 years later. Also some Aboard faces not edge sealed are fine but they aren’t out all the time.

Steve

[George Pucurull]

Many thanks Chris, Warren, Martin and Stephen you’ve given me some great advice and tips for some further research. 😀

[Ezekiel Ikhinmiwn]

Thanks gentlemen a pleasure as always to hear the opinions of those who have gone before us…

Stickers is an area that I’m really interested in although I’m not sure of the lifespan of the pigment sticker…Couple questions I have about them keep me going round and round….

How would you ever seal a sticker???…over the edge?? *hair*

Would they ever last outside..or are the only good for internal use????

My apologies for the silly questions but I have to ask

Thanks kindly for any responses

Eze

[Warren Beard]

see my post above and ask them, no sealed edges and lasts years outdoors.

[Andy Perry]

Hi guys,

Don’t know if your still looking, but a great company I deal with all the time and get great prices from are Paper Graphics, I buy Stickybits Matt, Gloss and Crystal Laminate from them which is solvent based and can last around 3 years outside when printed on pigment. I have a Canon ipf8000s and loads of my prints are in direct sunlight and have lasted well over a year without colour fade. Only if laminated mind!!

Their self adhesive vinyl is pretty good and managed to do some graphics on vehicles with them, I told the client the price difference and he bit my hand off for the pigment print, even with the risks of fading! Remember this was laminated!

Their 200gsm poster paper is awesome too, I am printing shedloads of this stuff and can’t fault it. I think it’s Jackson micro porous satin photo paper, really nice professional finish, laminated or unlminated.

[Ezekiel Ikhinmiwn]

Hey Andy,

Thanks for the update the more information on this type of media the merrier. It’s not that often that someone is bold enough to put their neck out there and try this type of printer and media for serious "solvent" work – when it pays of It’s an encouragement to some I must say .. I have been in that position. I’m sure this will be good for others also – I guess we’ll have to make do with these types of media until we can move up the printer food chain.

:lol1: 😕 :lol1:

Thanks Again

Eze

[Andy Perry]

HI Eze,

Yeah, it is just a stop gap til I buy a solvent, remember to tell the customers the situation as it is always best to be upfront. I have attached an image for you to see.

The resolution of the image is much better on my printer than solvent and I will be watching some of my images over the next while to see what is best.

Andy

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Attachments:

[Ezekiel Ikhinmiwn]

Hey Andy,

Thanks for the great picture…I guess thats a mix between the printed material you spoke about previously and good old bog standard vinyl right… It looks good 🙂

You mentioned being up-front with the customer, when you say that are we talking in terms of the difference between solvent and our pigment option (lifespan) or possibly the price difference ???

Just trying to get a bit of clarity !!:o 😮 😮 !!

Anyone else can chip in if I’m he only one that didn’t get it

Thanks again for the effort

Eze

[Martyn.Heath]

Hi Andy, just wanted your thoughts on my situation as i posted a question on here regarding using hp designjet printer with uv inks, ive noticed that there seems to be a lot of people against this method for vehicle logos.
I’d be interested in your comments

[Andy Perry]

Hi Martyn,

I am unsure about solvent inks in an HP Designjet. The key to getting over fading etc is good lamination. I am not saying it would be my preferred choice as I am currently looking to buy a solvent, but as I don’t have one just now and have been signing vehicles with vinyl for a while) I do use my canon for vehicles.

You have to make sure the lamination you are using is UV resistant. If you laminate correctly using decent vinyl you won’t really have a problem on flat and very small recess areas. I wouldn’t go and wrap a car or van with it, but it is good for a few years. Stickybits Crystal Laminate is good for me.

I could go on about this for an age using pro’s and con’s, but each to their own and someone will always argue what is best. Do what works and if you are proud to shout about your job then do it.

Hey Eze,

yeah I mean be upfront and tell them both options and price differences, there is no point in losing a job if they want a cheaper option. I am in a fortunate position as I have both options (my friend has a solvent I use til I can buy a new one).

here is my scenario:

customer comes in and asks for a vehicle wrap.

I ask, is it a wrap or decals?

What’s the difference…… Proceed to tell them the difference in using a mixture of materials, lifespan, cost, application time…..

they know what they want to do and will have many questions so just answer honestly with no bias to either and see what they want. My customer in the picture knew that vehicle film is a lot more expensive, but never knew there was a solution. I told him it was pigment inks, but they are good for a few years with the correct lamination and if applied correctly. The guy could print this twice more if he wanted to for the price difference…that is if it fails at any point.

If you spend the time trialing a few things you will see what works best for you. Print out a square metre on printed material and laminate it with a good uv resistant laminate, stick it outside for a while and watch the progress, that is what I have done and it has been going well.

Andy

[Martyn.Heath]

Ok thanks Andy, i understand exactly what you are saying. I would never think about doing a wrap with uv inks but i think it could do a good enough job for company logos on vans and banners. Could you point me in the right direction for waterbased vinyl? Seems to be difficult to find a supplier and most vinyl options are internal only.

Regards

Martyn

[Andy Perry]

Speak to Isabell at Paper Graphics 0141 842 1222, tell her Andy @ Flyerscotland sent you. I buy the matt adhesive vinyl & Stickybits laminate from them. I would never put it outside without laminating it first. I use this stuff for everything. Just finished restaurant walls and counters with it 40 sq mtr of the stuff. looks great. I will upload images later.

Good Luck!!

Andy

[Martyn.Heath]

ok thanks buddy

[Martin Pearson]

Andy, no disrespect meant here but just how much experience do you have with using pigment inks outside?
Your post says that you will get a few years out of a print if properly laminated with a UV laminate but I have yet to find a supplier who will commit themselves to anymore than 18 months. I Take it then that you are talking about personal experience and some of your vehicle prints have been in place for several years.

The other thing I am having trouble understanding is how a customer can get a pigment ink print done several times for the cost of a solvent print. A solvent ink printer will print to any uncoated vinyl which makes the cost of the substrate cheaper to start with, you could laminate with a clear vinyl if only looking for abrasion resistance which makes the cost of the laminate cheaper. Solvent inks are I believe cheaper than pigment inks which also makes the cost of the inks cheaper so where does this huge price difference come from?

I don’t run a solvent printer myself as I can’t afford to buy one and if I did doubt that I would be able to keep it busy enough so if I am asked for any digital graphics I buy them in from a trade printer. I do own an Encad 850 so I am familiar with pigment printers but I would never use it for any form of outdoor graphics other than short term as it wasn’t designed to do that sort of work.

[Andy Perry]

Hi Martin,

Yes this is personal experience, is that not why we use these boards?

I also have quite a few friends around me that have been doing this a lot longer than me that will swear by certain types of laminate in sunlight. I did say that someone would argue against my point lol…

I have been involved in the printing trade for 15 years, but only a few of them in large format, but I am unsure what experience has to do with this. Someone asked a question and I am giving my opinion and experiences with certain types of material and inks.

Costings: Pigment printers are cheaper than solvent, therefore you will save quite a few grand on the initial cost, also, it depends on what inks you buy as to wether it is cheaper than solvent or not. My previous job was in retail management and procurement was a major part of this, so I think I am pretty good at sourcing my materials at the best price. The initial question was of printing for vehicles and if you were to use any WRAP vinyl you would be extortionate compared to my vinyl – therefore, a lot cheaper and you could print quite a few more compared to these.

You are quite correct in that these were not designed to do this sort of work, that is what laminate is for…..They were designed for that.

As I have said in previous posts this is my opinion and experience and people can try out their material, laminate and judge for themselves.

Hope that clears a few things up.

Andy

[Ezekiel Ikhinmiwn]

Andy,

Thanks again for the advice and the scenario it is much appreciated..and well understood. I guess it’s just a matter of courses for horses…..in some respects. I’m sure many of us on here that are serious about what we do have at one point and or will continue to aspire to purchase a solvent printer or something of the likes…It just a matter of time in many cases… As Martin has rightly said getting the work and keeping it coming is also a factor we all have to consider.

Thanks gents for another insightful thread…onwards and upwards it is!!! 😀

Eze